Worse trainer - Freddie Roach (2012) or Billy Graham (2007)

is that a joke? well hbo did make a whole documentary series about him remember just a few months back.. most people are used to his speech nuances by now so it wouldnt be a problem. and i dont mean a main commentator like lampley but more like the roy jones or antonio tarver sound bite commentary.. in total he'll talk for probably like 5 minutes per 12 round fight if you add up all his talk time

He's a good trainer. I do question his work load as I am not a huge fan of those crossover training camps he's had with Manny and Khan.

is that a joke? Knowledge wise it'd be good, and he's an honest guy. Problem is his ability to speak and convey which ... yes would make it a joke.

i think it's only right at this stage. he's a good personality to have in the sport imo and i'd like to hear roach commentating or something in the future, but as a trainer he's fallen off in a big way as far as i see it. is that a joke?

Are we allowed to criticize roach yet? i think it's only right at this stage. he's a good personality to have in the sport imo and i'd like to hear roach commentating or something in the future, but as a trainer he's fallen off in a big way as far as i see it.

Are we allowed to criticize roach yet?

Buddy McGirt (2011?) is the worst trainer! co-sign ^^

Youre not seperating fact from emotion. FM sr was a dick but he had Hatton outbox a slick boxer in paulie M. Not outwrestle him or wear him down but outbox him, fighting Paulie M's fight and beating him at it. Urango was a good win but Castillo after his wars with Corrales at 140 pounds, really? That matchup was highly criticized. I think you're overanalysing the impact the trainers had. Hatton didn't get anything from Floyd Sr and probably got thrown into more disarray because of the drastic change. It sure showed up in his performances post Floyd. He looked tired after Floyd. Nothing to do with trainers. Floyd Sr didn't fix any of his glaring defensive errors, nor could he even change what both of them knew about Pac.....right hook, roll under. The fact that F. Sr knew this was Pac's biggest weapon against the left hook, and couldn't present Hatton with an option to take advantage of it, or even get Hatton to feint with it first, just shows what impact his 'training' had on Hatton.

Buddy McGirt (2011?) is the worst trainer! I remember Malignaggi despised McGirt for stopping the Hatton fight in 08. I think he fired him on the spot in the ring that night.

If people are going to bring Chavez into this debate then I might refer you to 24/7 where it was apparent that Roach was not always training him for the Martinez fight(however, I think he could've had Eddie Futch & Angelo Dundee in his corner and he'd still have been schooled). Also, Roach was never going to sustain as much success as he was having in the last few years, it just happened that a couple of his big name fighters put in some poor performances within a few months of one another. The only actual disappointment of all the big name fighters was Khan, as Chavez was an underdog anyway and Pacquiao was the victim of a bad decision.

Buddy McGirt (2011?) is the worst trainer!

Youre not seperating fact from emotion. FM sr was a dick but he had Hatton outbox a slick boxer in paulie M. Not outwrestle him or wear him down but outbox him, fighting Paulie M's fight and beating him at it. Urango was a good win but Castillo after his wars with Corrales at 140 pounds, really? That matchup was highly criticized. You're not acknowledging facts. 2 wins from 3 for Graham in 2007 with RH, 3 from 3 for his brother. It can't be considered a bad year, especially when the defeat was against the pfp #1 on the road in the US. Hatton (08 version) beats Malignaggi with or without Sr. but for the Pacquiao fight Sr. wouldn't even turn up on time and would rather go to fast food joints than train his fighter with the consequence Hatton ended up overtraining because he couldn't rely on him. Sorry but that's unprofessional poor coaching whatever way you cut it.

In 2007, Hatton beat Urango for the IBF title in January, stopped Jose Luis Castillo in 4 rounds in June before being subjected to the FMJ/Cortez double act in December. He coached Matthew Hatton to three wins that year too. If you want a poor Hatton coach, look no further than FM Sr. who was so unprofessional he wouldn't even turn up on time. In 2012 Roach's main fighter won his bout v Bradley, JCC Jr almost scored an upset despite training in his living room. Khan beat Peterson and then wouldn't listen to Roach's instructions v Garcia. Maybe time to look past the coaches? Youre not seperating fact from emotion. FM sr was a dick but he had Hatton outbox a slick boxer in paulie M. Not outwrestle him or wear him down but outbox him, fighting Paulie M's fight and beating him at it. Urango was a good win but Castillo after his wars with Corrales at 140 pounds, really? That matchup was highly criticized.

In 2007, Hatton beat Urango for the IBF title in January, stopped Jose Luis Castillo in 4 rounds in June before being subjected to the FMJ/Cortez double act in December. He coached Matthew Hatton to three wins that year too. If you want a poor Hatton coach, look no further than FM Sr. who was so unprofessional he wouldn't even turn up on time. In 2012 Roach's main fighter won his bout v Bradley, JCC Jr almost scored an upset despite training in his living room and Khan wouldn't listen to Roach's instructions v Garcia. Maybe time to look past the coaches?

Roach has too many big name fighters at once in addition to running his own gym and all of the lower level fighters. Too many distractions. We've already seen it when he wanted to leave Khan and manny for 2 weeks to go see chavez jr on the other side of the world in the middle of camp and on 24/7, the one with his brother having the stroke, how crowded and busy his gym is. For graham he had more time to devote to hatton, he just wasnt used to training fighters on the world stage and some of his strategies like that body bag were retarded and useless. Especially in preparing for a fighter like floyd. The only time hatton ever looked like he had a game plan for a fight was the one with paulie M where he outboxed paulie and that was with Floyd sr. Even though Sr is a dick, especially in the pacquaio fight were he just up and left, he atleast had some kind of plan.

Jack Lowe.

I've always thought that roach wasn't all that great. I just never hear him give any tactical advice. "We gotta knock this guy out, we gotta put him on his ass" that's all that ever seems to come out his instructions.

Roach is a great Coach period Pacquiao was robbed Khan's an amateur with a glass chin Juniors a lazy bum. you can lead a horse to water but you can't force him to drink.

It's not Roach's fault Khan has a glass jaw. It's not Roach's fault Chavez is a pot head who was up against a vastly superior fighter. It's not Roach's fault Manny got jobbed against Bradley. Roach gets criticized way to much on here, he is still a good trainer. also i don't think roach spent much time training khan for the garcia fight? chavez jr was just not skilled or focused enough to beat martinez..that wasn't hard to see.. and pacquiao did get robbed.

It's not Roach's fault Khan has a glass jaw. It's not Roach's fault Chavez is a pot head who was up against a vastly superior fighter. It's not Roach's fault Manny got jobbed against Bradley. Roach gets criticized way to much on here, he is still a good trainer.