Manny Pacquiao vs. Julio Cesar Chavez, Sr. at 140 Lbs. Who Wins?

your thoughts? this would be a great fight, I got Chavez though, smarter guy. much more clever IMHO. sorry for the Necro, this is a great thread to bump from time to time

Chavez slowly breaks him down and finishes him in the later rounds

Pac style is tailor made for Marquez but it doesn't mean he is greater than Pac even after the ko. Pac was 112 WBC champ and lineal at the young age of 19. By 24 he was already a 3 divisions champ and 2 divisions lineal champ. This was happened even before Pac became popular and media on his back. So I'm sorry to say this but you are an idiot sir. This is a 50/50 fight. JCC would be the greatest fighter Pac has ever fought. Pac would be JCCs toughest in my opinion. JCCs body work would be the deciding factor if the fight goes late. Flip side is if Pac cuts JCC which is likely. Ive played this fight dozens of times on fight night champ. Its a fun fight which Im going to partake in right now. BTW for the pac never wins fantasy fights crowd, Pac will be retiring relatively soon and will thus begin winning most fantasy fights.

Pac would get toyed with until Chavez decides to ko his punk a$$$$$. Pac speed wont be a factor like people think. You have to have ring IQ to use speed effectively and pac already proved that his ring IQ is a joke that his speed was nothing against jmm. It is a clear mismatch. Were talking about a fighter that was supposed to be a two handed fighter and that he improved so much over the years only to get humiliated by an old blown up Marquez. Pac is a media hype created fighter nothing but a smoke screen fooling people into thinking that pac is some great fighter and I almost believed it until Marquez exposed him. Pac style is tailor made for Marquez but it doesn't mean he is greater than Pac even after the ko. Pac was 112 WBC champ and lineal champ at the young age of 19. By 24 he was already a 3 divisions champ and 2 divisions lineal champ. This was happened even before Pac became popular and the media on his back. So I'm sorry to say this but you are an idiot sir.

Chavez sr. was an offensive minded fighter. I really don't think an offensive fighter does well against pac past or present. You have to box pac to beat him. You come at pac you will get punished by his combinations.

Chavez sr by brutal left to the body in 8. For anyone thinking manny stops sr. Is just plain crazy sr was only stopped and the end of his career . I think manny folds under the pressure and the ability to not be able to hurt sr..another factor people bring up stamina.. that pacs high octane fury would be around in the later rounds while sr would fade plz jcc never had stamina issues from what I remember if anything mannys legs were always a question in that time, now that with chavez brutal body work would equal night night to manny. Reason pac loses fantasy fights is Barrera and morales were in wars I mean brutal wars before manny . Margs was a beastly 147 and I still believe like others is the reason floyd retired whitaker out points manny all day as does Taylor. Pac is good don't get me wrong but some of these guysbin their prime were diff animals

O you didnt get the memo? pacquiao loses every fantasy fight made. He will be 0-55 against all the great fighters of the past even if he fought a marco antonio barrera 1 year before, a rocky hatton 2 years before, a margarito 3 years before, a mosley 4 years ao, he loses them all aording to these haters The only one in question there is Shane and its more like 13 years ago. He beats the majority of them at any given time (He'd split some with a slightly younger Morales but I like manny over him overall) There's nothing wrong with saying he'd lose to chavez sr. I just dont see a scenario where Pac beats Chavez. It's a style thing. He wont be able to make Chavez move back and thats a big key factor for me. Chavez's upper body movement in coordination with his steady "come forward" style would be just too punishing and consistant. It'd be brutal no doubt, but I don't see Pac beating up Chavez more than Chavez does him. I've gotta ride with Chavez's defense, power, timing and durability over Pac's speed (coming forward, Pac doesnt fight defensively with his legs or box, and I dont think anyone disagrees with Chavez being smarter in the ring). The reason many dont have Pac winning many Fantasy fights is because who hes matched up against (in many cases bigger men) like Hearns, Leonard, Duran, Chavez Sr, etc. All bad matchups as every single one could deal with agression and had more than one attribute or skill (such as Hearns boxing ability, size/length with good speed and unreal power...) in addition they all (in my opinion of course) were better at what they did than Pac was at what he did AT Pacs higher weights.

Chavez breaks him down and stops him late.

stylewise , pac is a nightmare for sr.. the more competitive fight would be floyd vs chavez sr imo .. floyd already arguably lost a an inferior fighter with the same style in JLC, imagine sr...

O you didnt get the memo? pacquiao loses every fantasy fight made. He will be 0-55 against all the great fighters of the past even if he fought a marco antonio barrera 1 year before, a rocky hatton 2 years before, a margarito 3 years before, a mosley 4 years ao, he loses them all aording to these haters

Chavez knocks out Pac out .Pac seems to be weak to the body everytime he gets hit on body you can tell he does not like it one bit.

It would look like Morales and Pac 1. Chavez was too good defensively and too smart and not slow enough. Pac WOULD rack up some points but he'd take too much punishment in exchanges. Sr had an uncanny ability to break you down and time you inbetween being hit and always try to not make his punishment go in vain. Chavez had great timing and was really damn cagey coming forward, even going back he had some seriously underrated defense. Manny can bully and overwhelm a dude (ala Barrera and Diaz) but when a guy had the balls and firepower and knowhow to avoid the worst of it or not le Manny snowball out of control, Manny has lost some of those fights (Morales 1, the marquez fights). As much as i love Pacquiao I'd be an idiot to say he could KO Chavez or even drop him.. Just because he hurt Diaz and Hatton (Diaz remember said Pac power didnt bother him, it was the speed). People are putting tol much emphasis on Pacs attributes but not on Chavez. Hed easily be the strongest puncher Pac would have ever fought. Pac seemed to have a gret chin in the lower weights, but he also had some nice size on him and hasnt really put anyone in deep trouble above who didnt have a shaky chin. I think while Pacquiao feasts on lesser agressive guys, but Chavez is king there and would be too consistant, too strong, too sturdy, too smart. Pacquiao is too agressive for his own good and like many of Chavez's opponents who seemed to have the edge, they didnt realize how much punishment they had already taken until it was too late (Like Taylor). Taylor was winning the boxing match but Chavez was and did win the fight. He did so much damage... Pac just doesnt have that other dimension to his game to fall back on where chavez COULD box, and even though he came forward his defense was great. Chavez, to me is one of those guys where (if I was a pro boxer ) would be a nightmare matchup for me at those weights. He was hard to hit cleanly at times and was coming forward smartly and like a zombie, shi ts terrifying. No matter what happened in the fight, Chavez just had that air about him that it would be okay. That even when he seemed to be losing, he was doing the damage. Chavez doesnt need to cutoff the ring vs Pac, Pac isnt Pernell...he had great timing and Rios and Marg is one thing (Marg could actually hit Pac a good deal) Chavez is another animal. I feel Pac plays too much into Sr's strengths whereas Pac wouldnt be able to overcome Sr's. Just my opinion.

50/50 fight imo. Both have the tools to bring each other down, it all comes to who had "it" that night. The left hook will be Manny's worst nightmare as he would circle into it and that Chavez SR. wouldn't mind taking punishment. The speed would be a huge problem in for Chavez SR., Manny has power as well as speed and Manny will counter with more than 1 shot at times. It truly comes down to the point where the corner's gameplan will be a big factor.

What's the closest JCC would have faced to Pacquiao's style?

Dream fight. They'd wreck each other.

It's a 50/50 fight. In some simulation games JCC beat MP via 6th round KO ( body punch), but in real life Manny is faster, athletic, and he hits you with some barrages of punches

bradley > chavez sr and pac

I agree on your whole analyses except the ending. That was an excellent analyses actually. But I think Manny has a good chin but doesn't take body shots as well. And like you said, Chavez Sr was a devastating body puncher. Body shots slow you down in a long grueling fight.So, come rounds 9 thru 12, I see Chavez taking over the fight. I'm just the opposite. I see Manny catching a viscious hook to the body and dropping to 1 knee. He would get up just to be greeted with more hard shots to the body and head. Chavez didn't throw as many punches as Manny, but I still think he put more meaningful punches together in combos. The fight would get stopped in the 11th by TKO. Chavez wins. It would be so competetive and violent that the fans would demand a rematch. you've said it pal. boxing fans will be craving for more if ever they face each other in the ring

A more amusing question is whether Pac could beat the 160lb JCC Jr who is a come forward face first fighter who doesn't throw punches. haha. nice one. we'll probably get another replay of the margarito fight. but who knows

Pac would get toyed with until Chavez decides to ko his punk a$$$$$. Pac speed wont be a factor like people think. You have to have ring IQ to use speed effectively and pac already proved that his ring IQ is a joke that his speed was nothing against jmm. It is a clear mismatch. Were talking about a fighter that was supposed to be a two handed fighter and that he improved so much over the years only to get humiliated by an old blown up Marquez. Pac is a media hype created fighter nothing but a smoke screen fooling people into thinking that pac is some great fighter and I almost believed it until Marquez exposed him. i see your point and i understand pacquiao has not produced a show stopping performance for a few years now. but maybe the 2009 version of pacquiao, well before all the distractions, like his womanizing or political career, got into his head and would have been able to focus all his energy towards the fight. pacquiao himself said he never had the skills to make it as a good boxer but he did say he had the determination to make it as a great fighter.