John Scully ... As A Trainer

scully is very underrated as a trainer and i'm hoping he can continue to make a name for himself with up and coming fighters - no reason he couldn't have a long and successful career as a cornerman. would be interesting to see what he can do with a fighter who is a little more willing to rise to the occasion..

Iceman is a good trainer, his only problem is he believed in his fighter more than his fighter believed in himself. You can only motivate a man so much. ^^^^THIS^^^^ There's not much more you can say to a fighter when you can't even get him to throw ANY punches. Take a look at the stats during the fight (although they're not always completely accurate, it tells A LOT). Several rounds he only landed ONE punch (out of 5 TOTAL punches thrown in the round IIRC). I can't even count the # of times I've watched of Chads in the last few years where they always show his trainer BEGGING him to throw some fkng punches. In the end, Scully was brutally honest with Chad telling him he can't win a decision and to go out there with everything he's got to try and make something happen.... and still no change in Chads determination. To be perfectly clear, I'm not taking anything away from Ward because he fought a beautiful fight... but it seems too common these days for everyone to blame the trainer of a fighter that lost, who just spent X number of weeks in training and already knows what the game plan is. During the fight, the trainer is just relaying to the fighter what he's seeing and what tactics to use... but if the fighter isn't listening or is unable/unwilling to listen, what else is the trainer supposed to do. TBH, no one here heard most of the instructions being given in that corner anyway... a few second snippets, inbetween replays and commentators talking about upcoming fights and showing the other corner. As Hectari stated, there's only so much you can do with a guy who seems unmotivated. You know what they say - you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink it.

Scully is the man but even he cant turn piss into wine. Dawson was in over his head.

I didn't hear too many in-depth instructions from Scully but it wouldn't have mattered...Chad fights one way, and if it doesn't work, he'll lose... Chad would have lost regardless of who was in his corner...Ward is in a different class...

Iceman is a good trainer, his only problem is he believed in his fighter more than his fighter believed in himself. You can only motivate a man so much.

Ward was setting Dawson up by drawing shots from him with feints and then bringing it inside and short. Also, I'm gonna give Scully more credit that underestimating Ward. They knew what Ward brought to the table. If they didn't that was a huge mistake on their part. Dawson just fell apart, it was poor preparation, a lot of that can be contributed to this trainer. Floyd Sr. said it best Dawson's should be using lateral movement, and angles, and teeing off of his jab, and only fighting in the inside when necessary. Dawson has a 5" reach advantage, he was COMPLETELY fighting the wrong fight. Dawson was trying to fight Ward at his own game. Dawson would be standing in the pocket with his hands low ready to throw a telegraphed left-uppercut, and than BOOM he gets hit with a left hook. Dawson was flat-footed, no lateral movement, no head movement. This is Dawson skills eroding year after year because he constantly switches trainers. I thought Dawson was at his best with Floyd Sr, but Dawson was still a work in progress at that time. And Dawson hasn't had a trainer who can correct his mistakes or bring the out best in his abilities like Floyd Sr has.

I dont know what Dawson even needs a trainer, he never listens to them

Quote from instructions after round 2 that confirms my suspicions that their game plan revolved around Chad establishing his jab. Scully : "Make him not want to be there (inside) so that he will get out, and then you just control him with the jab." Compare, that with Wards instructions. Hunter: "Keep feinting, hes frustrated!"

i thought john did an amazing job. theres not much you can do when your guy is just outmatched, not to mention drained to hell.

IceMan John Scully gave Chad Dawson the exact right instructions around the 9th (?) round: "you won't win a decision. Lay it all on the line and try to hurt this guy. We came here to Win". That was perfect instruction at the time. But BEFORE that, I thought Iceman Scully did an absolutely horrific job of giving Chad tactical and schematic direction to adjust to what SOG was doing. Did Scully ever discuss or adjust to the left hook? Did he get Chad back outside to use his length? Did he urge Chad to go back to the jab? When he told Chad to roll his right shoulder it was to roll with the left hook. Dawson's used the shoulder to roll with left hooks against most of his opposition, but Ward is special, he'd find the right distance and angles to bypass that. He could've instructed him to put his glove up instead, but it's tough adjust a fighters' habit mid fight. Live last night, I noticed Ward's tactics being pretty much geared toward stripping Dawson's jab. The reason why Ward parried Dawson's jab time and time again. All Dawson can do at that point is try to out position Ward (one of Ward's strengths). Dawson could have adjusted his positioning though, after Ward got the KD, he consistently got too close and just didn't respect Dawson's space. It's tough to judge Scully's instructions based on listening to just 2 half minutes of his instruction. Dawson was basically swimming upstream from the 3rd round on.

I agree, his instructions weren't very good. After Dawson got dropped Scully told him "He's gonna come so you're gonna have to take a gamble and catch him with the left hand." I'd never tell my fighter to gamble, you're supposed to tell him how to win in the surest manner. Also he panicked and started yelling at Rafael Garcia, it's never good to panic in front of your fighter, it can fuck with him mentally. Overall he looked like an inexperienced trainer in there.

go back and watch how ward's right hands to chad's mid section got him to lower his guard... that's how the knock down happened.... after that chad lost all confidence and it was over of course they underestimated ward.. why do you think dawson lost so badly? they went down to ward's weight, fought in his hometown... they thought they were so much better than ward in every way... it was a huge mistake and it cost them big time... I only gave dawson 1 round... he got focked in the @ss like a prostitute... it was brutal Dawson was throwing a right hook, and Ward came in with a shorter straighter left. Obviously Ward was throwing right to the body and coming upstairs with a left hook all throughout the fight, but to ignore the contribution of Wards feints is taking away from ward. Maybe thats the mistake that Dawsons camp made, underestimating that skill with which Ward can manipulate an opponent with feints. Go back and watch the first round. It is a master class in feints of the head hands and feet. That round set the pace for the fight. Ward used the round to test out all of his feints and see what Chad was falling for, and what he wasn't. Watch which ones he was falling for, and then watch the rest of the fight, and see how Ward was really setting things up. I didn't give Dawson a single round.

Ward was setting Dawson up by drawing shots from him with feints and then bringing it inside and short. go back and watch how ward's right hands to chad's mid section got him to lower his guard... that's how the knock down happened.... after that chad lost all confidence and it was over Also, I'm gonna give Scully more credit that underestimating Ward. They knew what Ward brought to the table. If they didn't that was a huge mistake on their part. of course they underestimated ward.. why do you think dawson lost so badly? they went down to ward's weight, fought in his hometown... they thought they were so much better than ward in every way... it was a huge mistake and it cost them big time... I only gave dawson 1 round... he got focked in the @ss like a prostitute... it was brutal

I wanted to hear ANYTHING tactical. yeah... i know what you mean

scully knew dawson was discouraged and about to quit, that's why he had to be a cheerleader instead of a coach at that moment... but I think he should've given Chad some kind of tactic to avoid Ward's left hand... it looked like at the beginning, their plan was to take the initiative and be first... that plan went to shiiiit the moment dawson got knocked down nah... I think team dawson underestimated ward... I think they thought they could fight in the trenches with ward... dawson actually was doing okay in the trenches at first cause he was able to muscle ward around... but his strength faded from all the punches he was taking to the body and to the head... and it probably didn't help that he was fighting at 168 lbs. nah... dawson was getting hit cause ward set him up... ward was hurting him to the body with right hands... when chad dropped his guard to protect his body, ward went up top and knocked him down with the left hook... when chad got tentative, he stopped jabbing and ward took over scully should've told dawson to fight with a high guard to try to block ward's jab and hook... I know that's not how dawson is used to fighting, but it was a necessary adjustment that needed to happen.. dawson looked like a deer in headlights... Ward was setting Dawson up by drawing shots from him with feints and then bringing it inside and short. Also, I'm gonna give Scully more credit that underestimating Ward. They knew what Ward brought to the table. If they didn't that was a huge mistake on their part.

http://sicounterpunch.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/andre-ward-610.jpg IceMan John Scully gave Chad Dawson the exact right instructions around the 9th (?) round: "you won't win a decision. Lay it all on the line and try to hurt this guy. We came here to Win". That was perfect instruction at the time. But BEFORE that, I thought Iceman Scully did an absolutely horrific job of giving Chad tactical and schematic direction to adjust to what SOG was doing. Did Scully ever discuss or adjust to the left hook? Did he get Chad back outside to use his length? Did he urge Chad to go back to the jab? Hard to say we didn't hear every minute of his instructions.

You can't really blame him. There aren't really any instructions that you can give in that situation other than to try and calm dawson down and get him to fight with passion. scully knew dawson was discouraged and about to quit, that's why he had to be a cheerleader instead of a coach at that moment... but I think he should've given Chad some kind of tactic to avoid Ward's left hand... What are you gonna tell him? I guarantee you that their game plan revolved around establishing the jab and using their height to keep ward on the outside. it looked like at the beginning, their plan was to take the initiative and be first... that plan went to shiiiit the moment dawson got knocked down They knew they would not be able to match ward on the inside, so when he wasn't able to establish his jab, it was game over for dawson. nah... I think team dawson underestimated ward... I think they thought they could fight in the trenches with ward... dawson actually was doing okay in the trenches at first cause he was able to muscle ward around... but his strength faded from all the punches he was taking to the body and to the head... and it probably didn't help that he was fighting at 168 lbs. Dawson was getting caught with the punches that hurt him because his punches were coming too wide, and Ward was able to come in short inside of them and beat him to it. nah... dawson was getting hit cause ward set him up... ward was hurting him to the body with right hands... when chad dropped his guard to protect his body, ward went up top and knocked him down with the left hook... when chad got tentative, he stopped jabbing and ward took over There is nothing he can do about that, no instructions to give to fix that. That is something they would have needed to fix in the gym. scully should've told dawson to fight with a high guard to try to block ward's jab and hook... I know that's not how dawson is used to fighting, but it was a necessary adjustment that needed to happen.. At the end of the day Ward was just too smart for Dawson, he was able to out think him. Just watching the way Ward was feinting Dawson and setting traps and using his distance was a beautiful thing. dawson looked like a deer in headlights...

Throw more combos: (Chad would just throw the jab out and just wait for the return fire.) Throw some lead left hands to upset Ward's timing. Try to circle the other way to move away from the hook. When you get inside, tie him up. Don't let him work. I wanted to hear ANYTHING tactical. You don't tell your guy to throw more combos when he just got dropped in an exchange. That adds a huge wrinkle to what kinds of instructions you have to give to your fighter. We saw what happens when Dawson tried to tie up ward. Ward would get a hand free and strafe Dawson with hard uppercuts.

What are you gonna tell him? I guarantee you that their game plan revolved around establishing the jab and using their height to keep ward on the outside. Throw more combos: (Chad would just throw the jab out and just wait for the return fire.) Throw some lead left hands to upset Ward's timing. Try to circle the other way to move away from the hook. When you get inside, tie him up. Don't let him work. I wanted to hear ANYTHING tactical.

You can't really blame him. There aren't really any instructions that you can give in that situation other than to try and calm dawson down and get him to fight with passion. What are you gonna tell him? I guarantee you that their game plan revolved around establishing the jab and using their height to keep ward on the outside. They knew they would not be able to match ward on the inside, so when he wasn't able to establish his jab, it was game over for dawson. Dawson was getting caught with the punches that hurt him because his punches were coming too wide, and Ward was able to come in short inside of them and beat him to it. There is nothing he can do about that, no instructions to give to fix that. That is something they would have needed to fix in the gym. At the end of the day Ward was just too smart for Dawson, he was able to out think him. Just watching the way Ward was feinting Dawson and setting traps and using his distance was a beautiful thing.