Had Pavlik never fought Hopkins, he would be where today?

I do admit I totally forgot he did stay champion for about 2 years afterwards. By ducking opponents (i.e. Williams) faking injuries (alcoholism) he just showed that he lost his confidence by losing to Hopkins. Rubio was a tough guy, ask David Lemiux about that, but very limited. Espinosa was a contender contestant who really had no business being in there with Pavlik. Then Sergio Martinez happened and well that took a lot out of him. Some guys never ever come back from their first loss, and Hopkins has ruined numerous fighters. It was obvious to see the Hopkins fight haunting Kelly long after in the way he carried himself. However, it looks like Kelly is finally clean and gaining in confidence with this comeback. I like the activity and work he's putting in with Garcia. I had all but written him off six months ago. Hopefully he'll get back down to 160 and get back a title shot.

I agree, with the problems Pavlik had/has its hard to imagine him getting by a world class fighter. I still think a booze free, in shape Pavlik can beat Froch!

I do admit I totally forgot he did stay champion for about 2 years afterwards. By ducking opponents (i.e. Williams) faking injuries (alcoholism) he just showed that he lost his confidence by losing to Hopkins. Rubio was a tough guy, ask David Lemiux about that, but very limited. Espinosa was a contender contestant who really had no business being in there with Pavlik. Then Sergio Martinez happened and well that took a lot out of him.

He stayed the champion for almost two years following the Hopkins fight, which he spent the entirety of faking injuries and ducking Paul Williams. The Pavlik-Bhop fight wasn't for a title. Good point! it wasnt about a "belt" it was about manhood! and the better man won. which screw Pavlik up mentally and over the edge! . a fighter whom loses his confidence in just an ordinary man. Guess with his expectation held so high by his people, the pressure caved him.

Probably stayed champ for at least a year, but if the stories are true, alcoholism is a very serious thing and he may have been derailed before that. He might have celebrated too much just as in defeat he wallowed too long. He stayed the champion for almost two years following the Hopkins fight, which he spent the entirety of faking injuries and ducking Paul Williams. The Pavlik-Bhop fight wasn't for a title.

tough to say at the time of the fight i though hopkins had no chance of winning Me too. Boy I wish him and Williams would have actually made that fight. I would have been epic (as they say.)

tough to say at the time of the fight i though hopkins had no chance of winning

Lets say healthy sober and humble! Could he have dominately successfully moved up to 168 and maybe 175? Meaning with his then skill sets!

True i agree to all, Alcohol and the soul taker!! But what could his full potential have been?

Better than what happened when he fought him. Bernard Hopkins the only active fighter that actually take souls. LOL at the other soul takers. Half the time the souls is halfway out already.

Probably stayed champ for at least a year, but if the stories are true, alcoholism is a very serious thing and he may have been derailed before that. He might have celebrated too much just as in defeat he wallowed too long. Agreed, I think that alcoholism would've got to him anyway as it seemed to be a growing problem even before the Hopkins fight.

Probably stayed champ for at least a year, but if the stories are true, alcoholism is a very serious thing and he may have been derailed before that. He might have celebrated too much just as in defeat he wallowed too long.