Molina Ward Hopkins... What's the difference???

I don't understand how Kirkland who is the bigger stronger guy IMO. Let Molina bully him around like that. Low ring IQ......

again if he keeps his hands up Molina would not be able to get underneath his armpits Boxing fans make too many excuses for fighters IMO, these fighters In Ring IQ is just not that high, they are not clever at all, this is why someone like Mayweather leaves that Forearm/Elbow out their, but then people say he throws Elbows and Forearms...NO HIS OPPONENTS RUN INTO THAT FOREARM and ELBOWS when they try to clinch him or get inside oh it is ways to stop Clinching...but sadly these fighters today, not many of them know how to prevent it or to get out of it without the Refs Saving Them Sorry I just don't have any sympathy for fighters that are One-Dimensional and allows their opponent to DICTATE THE FIGHT! Ask yourself, why is it that people don't clinch against the Top P4P Fighters as much? Mayweather, JMM, Pacquiao, Martinez? Hatton clinched against Mayweather a lot, but eventually Mayweather figured that out and started to destroy Hatton Inside again I think fans are complaining about the wrong fighters but... but Kirkland did finally figure things out and he started to fight back and push back and instead of just stopping and waiting for the ref, he started to throwing short punches inside I will agree with that. I can't stand Zab Judah. He has been disrespectful so I cheer every time he gets beat or knocked out, but if you watched the fight with him and Vernon Paris, every time Paris tried to grab Zab, Zab knew how to shake him off and come back with some big punches. This is something that either most fighters don't know how to do or they would just rather have the ref do it for them.

Sure Kirkland could've tried to stop Molina from charging in by landing jabs to the body. I'm talking about while Molina was inside, how was kirkland suppose to punch when Molina had Kirk's left arm under his armpit and his right arm tied up? again if he keeps his hands up Molina would not be able to get underneath his armpits Boxing fans make too many excuses for fighters IMO, these fighters In Ring IQ is just not that high, they are not clever at all, this is why someone like Mayweather leaves that Forearm/Elbow out their, but then people say he throws Elbows and Forearms...NO HIS OPPONENTS RUN INTO THAT FOREARM and ELBOWS when they try to clinch him or get inside oh it is ways to stop Clinching...but sadly these fighters today, not many of them know how to prevent it or to get out of it without the Refs Saving Them Sorry I just don't have any sympathy for fighters that are One-Dimensional and allows their opponent to DICTATE THE FIGHT! Ask yourself, why is it that people don't clinch against the Top P4P Fighters as much? Mayweather, JMM, Pacquiao, Martinez? Hatton clinched against Mayweather a lot, but eventually Mayweather figured that out and started to destroy Hatton Inside again I think fans are complaining about the wrong fighters but... but Kirkland did finally figure things out and he started to fight back and push back and instead of just stopping and waiting for the ref, he started to throwing short punches inside

are you serious? peterson didnt initiate a single clinch in that fight, it was all khan! khan grabbed hold of him, pushed his head down and put him in freakin' headlocks anytime peterson tried to get inside. peterson wanted nothing to do with the grappling he was just looking to let his hands go. ward didnt really grab froch either when he did what you described, dont get me wrong he did clinch against him but not like that. when he did that he was just getting under frochs punches and then using his shoulder to smother him and push him backwards, he wasnt grabbing him at all. Both Ward and Peterson both bucked down, ran in, grabbed their opponents, then bullied them to the ropes. It is the same thing that Molina did, but Molina didn't ducked down. Would it have been better if Molina would have ducked down before he did it, so that way he could say that he was just "getting under their punches"? It doesn't matter why they are doing it, because they are still doing it. It doesn't matter who is doing it more ofter, because again, they are still doing it. I will also agree with the face that Khan clinched threw the fight also.

Please tell me how Kirkland can throw a punch when Molina had his right arm held under his armpit. Molina then had his left arm tied up as well. You're telling me Kirkland should've been going to the body all this time? well why the HELL DID KIRKLAND KEEP PUTTING HIS HANDS DOWN, even the announces mentioned that during the fight and I think even Wolfe told him to get his hands up All Molina was doing was ducking underneath Kirkland's HEAD HUNTING WILD PUNCHES and getting inside and disrupting Kirkland's Rhythm, it is not the Refs job to CREATE SPACE FOR KIRKLAND that is Kirkland's Job!

Henry Akinwande vs. Lennox Lewis, hold fest of the year (decade)! Look it up. Too much hate on Molina who had a great startegy to set up his punchs and take advantage of Kirklands aggression. A more conditioned Molina out works and out muscles Kirkland again. EXACTLY! and never mind that fact that Molina was blasting Kirkland in the face with shots before clinching him, it is not Molina's job to ALLOW KIRKLAND TO GET OFF OFFENSIVELY! He took away the only think Kirkland has...HIS POWER!

Henry Akinwande vs. Lennox Lewis, hold fest of the year (decade)! Look it up. Too much hate on Molina who had a great startegy to set up his punchs and take advantage of Kirklands aggression. A more conditioned Molina out works and out muscles Kirkland again.

the rules are not going to change just to make a few 14 year old fans on a Boxing Forum happy no they are not going to stop fighters from clinching, how about fighters learn how to fight inside more? instead of allowing themselves to be clinched to avoid fighting inside vicious body shots can keep someone from Clinching as well as a good JAB along with Footwork a lot of these fighters are just Overrated and One Dimensional and fighters like Molina, Ward and Hopkins are smart enough to take advantage of that...Molina just took away Kirkland's Power by smothering him, as did Ward against Froch and Abraham as did B-Hop against Pavlik as did Alexander against Maidana and by the Way Molina don't always fight like that, it was just the right strategy for Kirkland and IT WAS THE RIGHT STRATEGY!

No one is saying Ward doesn't clinch. It's the overly excessive clinching that Molina did is the difference. Ward didn't clinch Froch without punching for 20 seconds at a time. Ward was fighting in close quarters, not completely holding for long period's of time. Molina straight up held without letting go at times. If Ward fought Froch the way Molina fought Kirkland, I would say the same thing. I don't see any similarities between the two fights what so ever. If you're talking about 10-15 seconds where Ward did what Molina did that's one thing. But I'm talking about the entire fight. Do you see what I'm saying? lol Brah it's the same ****. "oh oh but Molina holds for two extra seconds, dude aint slik psssshhhhh" LMAO!!!!! GTFO!!!

I've always respected that kind of style, using the smothering as your defense and mixing up your punches at the same time...Watched the Molina fight last night, Its all about how you use it, Its a good style but Molina needs alot of work on it, first few rounds he looked ok, he was coming in and backing out descent. but he got very sloppy the rest of the fight. Rolling with punches and being slick helps the style very much, which molina lacks...i think this style is all wrong for molina..

The Froch Ward fight. Ward did it all night long. Ward would bend over, stick his arm out, run in and grab Froch, then push him up against the ropes. That is the same thing Molina did most of the fight. Probably the big difference is that the ref didn't go in and break it up as fast, giving Ward more time to get his hands free so he could throw some punches. Peterson also did the same thing against Khan. Personally I am not a big fan of any of those fighters (Molina, Kirkland, Peterson, Khan, Ward, or Froch). are you serious? peterson didnt initiate a single clinch in that fight, it was all khan! khan grabbed hold of him, pushed his head down and put him in freakin' headlocks anytime peterson tried to get inside. peterson wanted nothing to do with the grappling he was just looking to let his hands go. ward didnt really grab froch either when he did what you described, dont get me wrong he did clinch against him but not like that. when he did that he was just getting under frochs punches and then using his shoulder to smother him and push him backwards, he wasnt grabbing him at all.

Molina exposed Kirkland once again...that's the real reason. Had him stunned with no pop. http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/12/20/c01d7833-3032-4453-a1ee-46b431014054.jpg

where does thing come from that hopkins and ward get a free pass for clinching? ppl keep saying molina gets all this critisism while ward and hopkins doesnt but thats ****ing absurd! ward and hopkins couldnt get more critisized for clinching, its not possible. and on top of that ppl play the race card. :nonono: i dont think molina deserves much critisism for clinching, you take a few punches from james kirkland without clinching, running or going down you can complain all you want but until then stfu. molina did what he had to do in order to win against thsis particular oponent, win this one and look good the next. same thing goes for ward and hopkins. ward doesnt clinch more than necessary, if he gets in a bad position he wraps his man up as oposed to giving him a free shot. thats common sense imo, and its not like he kills fights with his clinching and just tries to survive, the man puts in lots of work and wins big every fight. hopkins is the only one who legitimately kills fights with his clinching, but at his age he doesnt have much choice. at his age he needs to take a break here and there, if you dont like it dont watch it. if you want to see him make history it comes with the territory. hell if you like boxing it comes with the territory, clinching is part of the sport. you can be mad at the referees who dont enforce the rule when things get out of line but not the fighters, they do what they gotta do.

I think that's where we're having the disagreement. Let's be specific. Which fight exactly are you saying Molina fought like Ward? I'll review the fight. If it's true, then shame on Ward. Either way you put it, Molina was a fckn bicth last night. I'll say the same for anyone that fought like that guy. It just so happens that I think Ward doesn't fight how Molina fought last night. Sure Ward clinches, but just clinching wasn't the problem. It was the overly excessive clinching for 20 seconds at a time without doing anything is where the problem lies. But it's not just Molina's fault. The ref was completely clueless. The Froch Ward fight. Ward did it all night long. Ward would bend over, stick his arm out, run in and grab Froch, then push him up against the ropes. That is the same thing Molina did most of the fight. Probably the big difference is that the ref didn't go in and break it up as fast, giving Ward more time to get his hands free so he could throw some punches. Peterson also did the same thing against Khan. Personally I am not a big fan of any of those fighters (Molina, Kirkland, Peterson, Khan, Ward, or Froch).

molina held for 2 minutes and 30 seconds of each round then threw punches the last 30 seconds. hopkins and ward hold too much but at least they throw punches in the clinch. so you respect them because not only do they hol, but hold and hit?(illegal+more illegal)? makes sense....

He was doing what he needed to do to try and when the fight. Isn't that what every fighter suppose to do? It's the ref's job to see it, warn him, and take points.

Hopkins-Holmes BTW was worse than this IMO. Hopkins would do the same thing, throw a lead right, follow up with his head, clinch Holmes, pin Holmes arm to his body. Rinse, wash, and repeat for the whole fight. Yet these fans are shittin on Molina. While defending Ward and Hopkins. If they don't think Ward or Hopkins are just as bad then they haven't seen most of their fights. bu bu bu but, hopkins never did this until he was and old man didn't you know? :nonono:

flom0s: molina aint black YUP!!! :blowjob:

I wouldn't say they are the same but it is hard to critisize a fighter for holding whilst being a fan of Hopkins and Ward. Both have held excessively in their time. Despite being far superior fighters.

Molina reminds me of a less skilled version of Andre Ward, more so than he does Hopkins. Like Ward, he dives in with the head and wrestles and pushes his opponents back to the ropes where he gets free and starts ripping them with hooks when they're not expecting it. It's a pretty ugly and dirty tactic, but at least he's working while he's doing it, not just clinching to stall the action or get through the rounds. I'd consider myself, if not a bonafide Ward fan, then at least a grudging admirer of his skills and his tactical abilities. I can appreciate Molina for the same thing. Any geniune Ward fan has no leg to stand on criticising Molina.