Breadman owns a Flamer aka Fl omo! Good read.

no idea about any of that, but manny is ahead as far as boxing accomplishments as of right now except for the gold medal.....

Man you are reaching you bring up the Mosley knockdown. Seriously…… The referee said it was a bad call and Mosley even said Manny slipped. But yet you bring it up to win an argument. Mosley made Floyd do the Dougie, hurting Floyd was much more damaging than a blown knock down. They both dominated Mosley but Manny knocked him down and made him forget the 2 following rounds. Shane has admitted Manny beat him worse. But since you want to be so technical, how come you don’t bring up the blown knockdown call Zab Judah should have received against Floyd. See how the devil’s advocate can be. Or the fact that Floyd should have been disqualified because Roger jumped in the ring. Floyd could have 2 losses…… It’s a shame you bring me to this, because I don’t even bring these things up. It’s boxing, if you stick around long enough, things will happen. But you made me go here. The devil’s advocate is not done. Yes Floyd did beat Hatton and Corrales when they were undefeated. I love Chico Corrales but man he’s not better than Marquez, Barerra or Morlaes. He’s just not. He was too vulnerable and he doesn’t have the longevity. And since you are going there, Barerra was ranked number 3 p4p when Manny fought him in 2003. Marquez was in the top 10 and so was Morales. Who cares if they were undefeated, they were still great. Now let’s look at Floyd and Manny’s records and see who has fought more 1 loss or undefeated fighters at the championship level. Let’s see who has fought more HOFrs. Manny has Chatchai Sasukal 33-1 lineal champion, Medgoen Sinsurat 18-0, Seung Kon Chae 23-0, Nedal Hussein 19-0, Lehlo Ledwaba 33-1-1, Emanuel Lucero 22-0-1, Jorge Solis 33-0-2, David Diaz 34-1-1, Ricky Hatton 45-1 and Miguel Cotto 34-1. That’s ten 1 loss or undefeated fighters he has beaten since you like stats. That doesn’t include Barerra, Morales, Marquez, Mosley and De La Hoya. So that’s 5 more HOFrs to go on the stat sheet. All in all Manny has 10 undefeated or once beaten fighters at the championship level and 7 Hofrs. Floyd has Genaro Hernandez 38-1-1, Diego Corrales 33-0, Jesus Chavez 35-1, Phillip N dou 31-1, Ricky Hatton 43-0. Throw in his HOFrs Marquez, De La Hoya, Mosley and Castillo. I think Hernandez and Castillo are borderline but you can throw them in if you like. All in all Floyd has four once beaten or undefeated fighters at the championship level and 7 Hofrs. Manny has more lineal titles and has won more titles in more weight classes. These are not awards given out by writers, these are titles earned in the ring. Why is it unreasonable to suggest that historically Manny has done more? Because Floyd has said Manny was average before he was 25, then you guys believe it. Because Floyd says he has done more than Manny, you guys believe it. Have you ever taken the time to examine Manny’s resume? Archie Moore historically rates over plenty of guys who may be able to beat him head to head. Bernard Hopkins rates over Joe Calzaghe and Calzaghe has a perfect record….. Let’s keep looking. Let’s see who they beat for each title. Manny beat an excellent fighter for his 1st world title in Sasukal. He was the best fighter in the division. He has one avenged loss to a borderline HOFr in Yuri Arbachakov. For his 2nd title he beat Lehlo Ledwaba another excellent fighter and he was also considered the best fighter in the division. For his 3rd title he won the RING honors against Barerra. I have to add he was the underdog in each of those fights. So now let’s go to the divisions that they both won titles in. Junior lightweight-junior middleweight. At junior lightweight Floyd beat Genaro Hernandez , Manny beat Juan Manuel Marquez. Edge to Manny. Hernandez was very good, but Marquez is great. At lightweight Floyd beat Castillo, Manny beat David Diaz. Edge to Floyd. Castillo is historically underrated and Diaz is a B level fighter. At junior welterweight Floyd beat Arturo Gatti and Manny beat Ricky Hatton. Edge to Manny. Gatti was not RING champion and he was really past it. At welterweight Floyd beat Carlos Baldomir and Manny beat Miguel Cotto. Edge to Manny. At junior middleweight Floyd beat Oscar and Manny beat Margarito. Edge to Floyd. So in the 5 titled divisions that they share Manny has also beaten better fighters to win his titles. Again it unreasonable to think Manny has surpassed Floyd in accomplishments. In a nutshell I gave Floyd a pass at 130 when he didn’t fight Freitas and Casamayor. I said maybe it’s the networks Floyd was on HBO and they were on Showtime. I gave him another pass when he didn’t fight Stevie Johnston at 135. Johnston lost to Lascano in that mandatory. My antennas went up when he chose to fight 2 mandatorys when he went up 140 in order to challenge for Gatti’s belt when Tszyu was the GUY at 140. But I still gave him the benefit of the doubt. I still gave him the biggest break I could when he fought Baldomir because he was the RING champion. But after Floyd beat Oscar and Hatton he was openly campaigning for rematches with 2 guys he had beaten. Why do you do that when Cotto, Margarito and Mosley are floating? Floyd understands the Mexican audience. He and Margarito would have been a big sell. He and Cotto would have been huge. He retired for 2 years…. Then when the smoke cleared he came back and has avoided his biggest challenge with blood test and purse demands. It makes me think the things I overlooked in the past were no coincidence. I don’t like bullies. I think Floyd has bullied Manny in this situation. I think he has taken advantage of Manny because of Manny’s ignorance to finances and public relations. I also think he has tried to discredit his accomplishments. There is no need for that when you can just go in the ring and kick his ass. People like to compare what Floyd/Manny to Ali/Frazier and Leonard/Hagler. Wrong. Ali was very cruel to Frazier. He said some things he shouldn’t have said. But he didn’t duck him. He gave Frazier a chance to punch him in the mouth. Actually he did it 3 times. So while Floyd and Ali both assassinated the character of their rivals, Ali actually got in the ring with his and didn’t price himself out of a fight. People say Leonard waited on Hagler. Floyd Fans need something to hold onto. They don’t mention that Leonard was much smaller than Hagler and he was out because of an injury. Detached retinas end careers today, imagine how they were looked at in the 80’s. The last thing they forget is Hagler made more money than Ray. He made a bigger guarantee and Ray gave him the bigger share of the closed circuit. Hagler took 48 states and Ray only took DC and Maryland. I know my history that’s why you can’t feed me s@#$ and call it filet mignon. I’m not against Floyd, I’m against Floyd in this situation because he’s wrong. Wrong and Right does not have color. It only has TRUTH. And the TRUTH is no top fighter in the history of boxing has avoided more top challenges than Floyd. And no one has turned down 50million dollars! Now that I have played devil’s advocate with you, I wonder what you can come back with. I assume nothing. I played Devil’s advocate but my tool was still the TRUTH. I just did this to show how anybody can put a spin on something and make it seem the way they want you to look at it. Last thing for the record, since you guys are so hung up on stats and undefeated records. Ask Floyd who his toughest career fights were against. Emanuel Augustus 22-16-4, Jose Luis Castillo 45-4-1 and Zab Judah 34-3…… None of them were undefeated. Judah is a fast hard punching southpaw, Augustus is a hard man, very busy and punches from unconventional angles and Castillo is a dog who pressures you ALL night. Did you ever stop to think Manny possesses all of those traits? Just trying to be fair and open up your eyes. Mayweather never wanted a fight with Manolo. COURTESY OF **********.

Bread’s Response: What's up Dave I will be out Cali next week. I see you can’t be objective. You actually brought up an Olympic medal. I mean seriously. I know the value of an Olympic medal especially a few years ago, but because Floyd has an Olympic medal it shouldn’t mean he is better historically than Manny as a pro. Howard Davis Jr. also has an Olympic medal, is he better than Aaron Pryor, whom he kept off the Olympic team? Stop it bro. I’m going to address your comment piece by piece and I hope you write back after I’m done. Any fighter can be torn apart if you don’t like them Including Ray Robinson and Muhammad Ali. No fighter is above criticism, questionable decisions or missed opponents. I choose not to attack and nit pick Floyd or Manny because they are both all time great fighters who happen to fight in a watered down era. But for arguments sake I will play devil’s advocate with your statements to prove my point….. You say Manny has lost and has been KOd. I have never said it didn’t happen nor do I try to pass him off as an undefeated invincible fighter. I think people are willing to overlook his losses because one came when he was 17, the other came when he was 20 and the other to an all time great in Erik Morales which he avenged twice by brutal conclusive ko. So in 59 career fights, you will have some bumps in the road my friend. The best fighter I have ever laid my eyes on has 19 losses. So what’s your point…. Are you suggesting that Joe Calzaghe and Ricardo Lopez are the two best fighters ever because they have never lost? I think both of them are awesome fighters, but it gets held against them because of who they didn’t fight, instead of getting held for them for who they did fight. You bring up Oscar not fighting at 147 for 6 years and you are correct. But I ask you like I ask everybody else; who were you picking to win between Manny and Oscar before the fight. I also want to point out something, remember I am the devil’s advocate. If we are not going to give Manny full credit for fighting Oscar at 147 when he was a 2 to 1 underdog, then why do you want to give Floyd full credit for fighting Marquez at a catchweight and not making the weight. Marquez was also in unknown territory when he moved up to fight Floyd. Stop me when I’m being unfair? Also I want to point out that Floyd and Oscar were headed for a rematch at 147, that’s why Oscar fought Steve Forbes at 150lbs, he was gradually taking the weight off. So why was it ok for Floyd to want to fight a rematch with Oscar at 147, but it’s not ok for Manny who was coming from 135 to fight Oscar at 147? I don't think we even need to go any further. Next you bring up Hatton. Ok I’m the devil’s advocate. I could easily say that Manny fought Hatton at his best weight, which was 140. By the way Hatton was undefeated at 140lbs. I could say that Hatton had been exposed at 147 when he fought Luis Collazo prior to his fight with Mayweather, where he struggled and was visibly hurt by a non puncher. I could say that brute force fighters like Hatton and say Marcos Maidana recently, don’t flourish as much when they move up, because they depend so much on their strength. Last but not least I could say that Oscar nor Hatton took terrible beatings from Floyd, so the “leftovers” theory does not apply. Manny broke Oscar’s face and made him quit, and he almost killed Ricky Hatton. That’s a destruction and neither fought again. Floyd controlled Oscar and he beat Hatton up, but it was not what you call a terrible beating. Where ya at bro? I have more. If Oscar and Hatton are Floyd’s leftovers, how come Marquez and Cotto aren’t Manny’s leftovers?.... Next you touch on Marquez. Floyd outclassed him and Manny struggled with him. There is no denying that. But since you want to be technical I will be technical. Manny beat Marquez. You can say Manny got a gift all you want. I personally think all 3 fights were super close. But Manny didn’t make the judge in the 1st fight add up his scorecards wrong, which he admitted. Manny didn’t make his punch stat numbers clearly better in the 3rd fight. Since we are on guys having another’s number. Most people think Castillo beat Floyd in the 1st fight. Before Floyd fell out of favor with the HBO team, they ALL had Castillo winning going away. Look at the telecast, each member of the telecast had Castillo winning. There was an immediate rematch in which legend has twisted the scenario. The rematch was EVEN going into the championship rounds. Floyd boxed his butt off and pulled them out. So conceivably if Floyd would have fought Castillo a 3rd time, he would have had his Marquez on his hands.