WITH ALL DUE RESPECT...Is Freddie Roach Slipping?

Roach, just like Emmanuel Steward, have become sort of complacent with their top fighters. Roach's top pupils have very similar strategies. Steward's top pupils fight a lot alike too. This can also be due to the fact that, their fighters have similar strengths. Pac and Khan use speed to dominate their opposition, just as the Klitschkos and Andy Lee are able to use their jab as a tool and a weapon. Maybe the Parkinson's is starting to affect Roach's in-ring instructions, or maybe we've been overrating Roach and giving him too much credit for the fights that Pac and Khan SHOULD be winning anyway. Are Pac and Khan that stupid that they need Roach to tell them every little adjustment that they need to make?

You know, in boxing there's no Plan B. A fighter has to go in SURE of himself for the win... they go in winners in their mind... when things start going downhill, other aspects of the fighter come in. Sure a trainer can spot the holes, the opportunities... find something... but the sweet science is rather obvious when that is happening... 90% of the time a trainer just notices what has to be done... it's THE FIGHTER who has to dig deep and find a way when a gameplan is not happening and you're getting whooped and tired as hell. That's an aspect of the fighter... they have to fight for it... let's take for instance, The Berto/Ortiz fight... Berto was dominating, Ortiz knew his chance was to score the big shot... he took the chances, rolled the dice and got down and dirty... yes, the trainers might point the way... but in boxing THE ACTUAL competition is between two guys in the ring... its up to them at that point. I do agree with the spreading himself thin asessment though (regarding FR) I think it's a very worthy observation.

Hmmm... heck what about Peterson? I believe that seriously, one can easily overlook the work that Lamont did... first off in round One he knew he could not outbox nor outpunch Khan... Amir had a game plan... Lamont just pressed on and imposed his will, making it a phuysical fight... he was the tougher dude. In my opinion this has little to do with Freddie Roach... 99.9% of the work is done before the fight... Khan was trained and in shape... Lamont just brought it to him in a way in which it could have gone either way, and after outboxing him for a great deal and having a takedown he just did not push as hard as Lamont... who just FOUGHT more. You can coach a fighter... but words won't make him fight more... that's mainly a somewhat romantic and cinematic notion.

I am seriously worried about the guy. When I watched the Khan fight it looked like his Parkinson's was really taking effect, i mean the guy's obviously showed the symptoms for a long times now, but he just looked to be trembling more than usual. It's sad man.

With all due respect from me too, but as much as I think Khan made mistakes in the ring, it seemed obvious to me that Khan utterly dominated the fight when he took the centre of the ring. The times when he was stepping (and sometimes running!) back - a natural instinct when a man needs a breather, I know - were when Peterson revelled, scoring the rounds by chasing him down and eventually getting Khan on the ropes and landing shots. When Khan stood his ground he looked a class above. Maybe I'm being simplistic but I think Khan should have been told to stand his ground more in the centre of the ring, and to work Peterson from there. The cornerwork seemed virtually non-existent.

Freddie Roach has appraised himself too high with all his loud mouth talking lately IMO. He is a good trainer but at this point he can't give his fighters any advice in the ring when the fight is ongoing. Everything has to be done when in camp and I think it has become more evident this time around as his fighters can't really adapt to the given situations when in a fight or change their game plan when things are going wrong. On the other hand, Manny has been with him for years and knows the routine. The situation is different for Khan and e.g. Linares. It's the same with Floyd. He doesn't really need Roger at this stage.

when I say sharp I meant physically. to be honest I am just not sure about his fight day tactics anymore. He had poor plans with Linares and Pacquiao and was seemingly general in his instructions to Khan short of the going down the middle. On Nov 3rd many people believed Freddie trained 2 viable opponents for floyd. Dec 11th, 5 weeks later, niether guy would even be a 4-1 underdog. Freddie may have cost khan and manny collectively about $50 mil.

But if he is still sharp in the gym, are we seeing development/improvement in his top two guys? I thought that his advice to "shoot something up the middle" was good. Khan came out in the next round and landed two hard uppercuts up the middle. But overall, Khan and Pac seem unimproved to me. when I say sharp I meant physically. to be honest I am just not sure about his fight day tactics anymore. He had poor plans with Linares and Pacquiao and was seemingly general in his instructions to Khan short of the going down the middle.

Roach still knows boxing, but his ilness is taking over. He didn't do good against Peterson and also have seen him slip on Okoye's corner.

yeah Freddie didn't seem that great in the corner on Saturday

No disrespect to Freddie, I went to the fight with my girlfriend and the next day we watched the replay and she was like "how in the heck does Khan know what Freddie is saying?" I'm used to Freddies speach but with everything he has going on and the stress of being in a big fight when you're fighter's in a war, does he still have the physical tools to be effective? My boy said the same thing about freddie's speech while watching the fight.

Yea..you can say that agin. Freddie has parkinsons,a gym to run, Manny and JCC jr. to train and a TV show. He has too much going on for someone with his health issues. Think of the fighter freddie was. His defense was basically his toughness, it surely wasn't parrying, blocking or head movement. I think its time he does what Steward does and come in to put in a gameplan but let subordinates and assistants handle the daily stuff.

No disrespect to Freddie, I went to the fight with my girlfriend and the next day we watched the replay and she was like "how in the heck does Khan know what Freddie is saying?" I'm used to Freddies speach but with everything he has going on and the stress of being in a big fight when you're fighter's in a war, does he still have the physical tools to be effective?

It's because they fight in the same basic style blueprint since Roach got hold of them. Add Jorge lianres to that list. From my obserations, Roach has recycled styles in the Wild Card. Freddie Roach just seems to be an offensive minded trainer who clearly hasn't taught Khan how to fight on the inside. Is it becuase he can't or won't? i don't know. Even the primary reason for Khan hiring roach, which was to improve his defence, has not been properly dealt with. Yea..you can say that agin.

Illness aside, his 2 star pupils have exposed him badly by not having a Plan B, C or D when the chips are down. It's up to Freddie to supply them with one in their hour of need. He failed them.

Hate to say it, but I think so :sad:

It's a case of the opp. That they recently been picking don't lay down for anybody. Also Freddy doesn't have a plan c or b for that matter. All he teaches is flurries and get out. I mean all his fighters get hit with the same dam punch.

Would Roach be as successful a trainer if he didn't have any tapes on his fighter's opponents? Most trainers have this available. I've watched Nazeem Richardson, Jack Mosley viewing tapes wth their fighters. So it's not something exclusive to Roach.

I have never got why Freddie roach trained so many guys, I get that he was in favor and he had to strike while the iron was hot and he could still do it but damn for a while it seemed like he was trying to train half the boxing world. It just seemed like a bad idea, someone that ill should not be working that hard there is no way that is good for him. Freddie is like any other trainer it depends on the guy he is training but really he hasn't been choosey with guys and that has lead guys to him that he really can not maximize. I think Freddie has an alright approach although it is really simplistic but in a fight keeping it simple is often very wise advice, it becomes an issue if the simple stuff is not up to the task or the other guy is focused (and or capable of) taking away plan A. Still I don't find that a huge flaw because most fighters are not adept tacticians and any guy who can take away their strength is always going to be an issue and when you look at who he was as a fighter tough to expect him to solve complex in ring issues that are really very tough problems to overcome.

But if he is still sharp in the gym, are we seeing development/improvement in his top two guys? I thought that his advice to "shoot something up the middle" was good. Khan came out in the next round and landed two hard uppercuts up the middle. But overall, Khan and Pac seem unimproved to me. It's because they fight in the same basic style blueprint since Roach got hold of them. Add Jorge lianres to that list. From my obserations, Roach has recycled styles in the Wild Card. Freddie Roach just seems to be an offensive minded trainer who clearly hasn't taught Khan how to fight on the inside. Is it becuase he can't or won't? i don't know. Even the primary reason for Khan hiring roach, which was to improve his defence, has not been properly dealt with.