Is Pacquiao the worst fantasy fighter of all time?

this **** has been said so many times and i keep tekllking you ppl the same thing. pac gets fairly evaluated in ever fantasy matchup, its just his retarded fans who think hes the best ever and have no knowledge of boxing history and pit him against fighters nobody today would defeat. so pac would lose to hearns, leonard, whitaker and duran? so would every other active fighter. its just that other active fighters fans arent too retarded to realize it. put pacquiao in a reasonable fantasy matchup and he has a good chance of coming out on top. I think because they are retired and past greats people see them more favorably.. they forget that many had bumps in the road in their records and that they are human. I wouldn't doubt Pacquiao could beat some of the past greats.. his size. It's retarded to put him against Hearns, Hagler and other dudes of that size though..

Me neither. It'd be like ranking Tito against only the best 160 lb'ers, or Leonard too. Exactly. People don't realise that's it's an unfair comparison to rank fighters like that who are unatural at the weight against natural ATG's at the weight. Yeah we see Pacquaio and Mayweather beat today's natural WW's and beat them well. But beating ATG natural WW's is a whole different story.

Great post, couldn't agree with you more here. I think it's mainly because people didn't see Pac as a youngster, and just go with the crowd. Other's sell 'Young Pac' very short, calling him one handed, no skills, just a swining brawler. I mean, that's bullsh*t. People forget it's coming up to a decade since he beat the living hell out of Barrera. You don't beat Barrera like that with one hand and no skills what so ever. I've been banging on since 2008 that Pacquaio hasn't improved his skills or right hand, he really hasn't. It's been good for a long long time. And you used great examples with the Morales fights. Thankfully, the third Marquez fight made it very apparent. haha, I like Pacquiao a lot as a fighter, but I find myself rooting against him sometimes to do badly just to keep the boxing community in check, since they love to overrate/underrate/overexaggerate fighters in general based on what happened recently. Unfortunately now because of the Marquez performance, of course everyone has gone 180 and are making out Pacquiao to be some average fighter :pat: I really dont think people have even fully watched young Pacquiao when they make those statements. Hell, he showed both the counter right hook and lots of body attack in the first Morales fight, he even hurt Morales to the body in the 1st round...youd think people would have gotten at least that far into the fight to notice these things :/

Struggled against Buchanan? Duran destroyed Buchanan. He had never been 'beaten' up to that point, apart from that horrible hometown decision that went against him in Venezuela, and Duran won nearly every round and beat the breaks off him. 99% of other fighters would have been done in that fight. Buchanan was classic Scot, apart from his beautiful boxing skill, in that he was as tough a fighter as you'll ever see. He took a brutal pounding in that fight. :lol1: :lol1: I don't see where people get their sh*t from. Buchanan was an excellent fighter one of the elite Lightweight's of that era. Shame Duran was around to hog the spotlight. Duran had him pissing blood for weeks. Due to the low blow of course but he was putting a beating on him up to that point.

It's kind of unfair to rate him against only the ATG fighters at welterweight, it's not really his natural weight class. Better fantasy fights would be against Featherweights (naseem hamed) or lightweights (Whitaker, Chavez, Duran, Mosley) Even Tzyu or Pryor at 140. Floyd loses to a lot of the ATG welterweights as well. Great post. People don't seem to understand this reasoning.

I dont believe that. Hes really not much different(skill wise) today than he was at featherweight. In fact, I think he changed very little since his days at 130. As evidence by the fact that he still is struggling with Marquez, even despite the fact that Marquez is older and worse. people go on about "Oh, but his body punching and counter punching..!" when in reality you can see him attacking the body very early in his career against Ledwaba, and his counter right hook is in full use in the Morales rematches. Its just a myth that hes grown so much, because people think that its a big deal to fight guys that are bigger than you. Reality is that being bigger has its advantages, but its far from the end all be all, since smaller guys often have advantages too. Pacquiao from the 2nd Marquez fight wouldve done the same thing to Cotto that Pacquiao from the Cotto fight would have. Great post, couldn't agree with you more here. I think it's mainly because people didn't see Pac as a youngster, and just go with the crowd. Other's sell 'Young Pac' very short, calling him one handed, no skills, just a swining brawler. I mean, that's bullsh*t. People forget it's coming up to a decade since he beat the living hell out of Barrera. You don't beat Barrera like that with one hand and no skills what so ever. I've been banging on since 2008 that Pacquaio hasn't improved his skills or right hand, he really hasn't. It's been good for a long long time. And you used great examples with the Morales fights. Thankfully, the third Marquez fight made it very apparent.

IMO Manny loses fantasy fights because his flaws are so obvious that everybody can see them. All fighters have flaws but most ATG fighters flaws are not so easily seen like Manny's are and that is why it is so hard to pick Manny in fantasy fights against an ATG. Just my opinion though. Well said man, this is how I see it also.

Marquez is an ATG fighter against agressive fighters especially. Duran was outboxed by De Jesus, struggled against Buchannon. Great fighters can lose to other good fighters it happens. Struggled against Buchanan? Duran destroyed Buchanan. He had never been 'beaten' up to that point, apart from that horrible hometown decision that went against him in Venezuela, and Duran won nearly every round and beat the breaks off him. 99% of other fighters would have been done in that fight. Buchanan was classic Scot, apart from his beautiful boxing skill, in that he was as tough a fighter as you'll ever see. He took a brutal pounding in that fight.

Pacquiao is without a doubt the worst fantasy fighter of all time. I've never seen him win a single fantasy matchup, even against guys he outright dominated in real life (see 'Cotto beats Pacquiao in a rematch').

The issue with Pacquiao is that he only really reached his peak after moving up to 135, and now he fights at odd catchweights and above weights he would be historically competitive at. So his peak skill years have been spent at weights that historically would be very rough for him to compete at given his size. Yet when he was at weights more appropriate for his size (130 and below), he wasn't as good of a fighter. That's the heart of the problem. I dont believe that. Hes really not much different(skill wise) today than he was at featherweight. In fact, I think he changed very little since his days at 130. As evidence by the fact that he still is struggling with Marquez, even despite the fact that Marquez is older and worse. people go on about "Oh, but his body punching and counter punching..!" when in reality you can see him attacking the body very early in his career against Ledwaba, and his counter right hook is in full use in the Morales rematches. Its just a myth that hes grown so much, because people think that its a big deal to fight guys that are bigger than you. Reality is that being bigger has its advantages, but its far from the end all be all, since smaller guys often have advantages too. Pacquiao from the 2nd Marquez fight wouldve done the same thing to Cotto that Pacquiao from the Cotto fight would have.

The issue with Pacquiao is that he only really reached his peak after moving up to 135, and now he fights at odd catchweights and above weights he would be historically competitive at. So his peak skill years have been spent at weights that historically would be very rough for him to compete at given his size. Yet when he was at weights more appropriate for his size (130 and below), he wasn't as good of a fighter. It creates an odd place for him to occupy.

I like Pac's chances against guys like Arguello and JCC. I'd favor him to win. nah, I think Pacquiao loses to both of them. Arguello hits too hard, too accurately, and is too good a counter puncher. That right hand was death, and Pacquiao wouldnt enjoy that body punching. Chavez was just too good at closing off the ring effectively, and Pacquiao doesnt have any infighting ability, Chavez would tear him apart there. HOF fighters I believe Pacquiao would have beaten: Aaron Pryor Danny Lopez Barry McGuigan Sugar Ramos maybe more.

IMO Manny loses fantasy fights because his flaws are so obvious that everybody can see them. All fighters have flaws but most ATG fighters flaws are not so easily seen like Manny's are and that is why it is so hard to pick Manny in fantasy fights against an ATG. Just my opinion though. That is true. It just seems like on paper, Pacquiao would lose, but he proves it in the ring. It wasn't too long ago that people said, Pacquiao would lose via stretcher from Hatton, Cotto, Margarito. Good thing he fought them in the ring. Pacquiao-Duran would have been one hell of a fight.

prime duran vs prime pacquiao would be one hell of a fight. at lightweight i could see duran beating pacquiao..not sure if duran would stop pac because pac is tough as hell, but he would beat him by decision. however, at welterweight i'd give pac a better chance of beating duran because duran at ww wasn't as good compared to his lightweight days. I think you mean at 154. At 147 quite a few people put him in the top ten with his wins over HOF greats Leonard and Palomino as well as the other top wins he had there. He only lost one fight and all his others, while he didn't look as good as 135, he was still utterly brutal in the big fights (apart from LEonard rematch obviously).

Pacman was just outboxed by a lightweight 40 year old at welterweight. Nothing else needs to be said. Marquez is an ATG fighter against agressive fighters especially. Duran was outboxed by De Jesus, struggled against Buchannon. Great fighters can lose to other good fighters it happens.

I like Pac's chances against guys like Arguello and JCC. I'd favor him to win.

I do notice that pac does have a tendenacy to drop his high guard from time to time (especially when he's on the offensive of course), but most of the fight he keeps that high guard up. but anyways, i don't consider that to be a significant flaw of his. Resepctfully, that my whole point. Its not a huge flaw when you consistently fight people who have niether the intelligence or speed to take advantage of it. When discussing Manny vs any elite opponent, IMO you have to factor that in. When manny presse for the KO, he gets scored on. Now if Josh Clottey hits manny with almost 30% of his punches, it stands to reason a better fighter with more ring intelligence would score as well.

He just can't win against any HOF and ATG. Are there any HOF or ATG he can win on a Fantasy Fight? Pacquiao loses fantasy bouts because in reality he always has some sort of cheap advantage. We as fans have to fantasize what it would be like if Pacquiao actually fought someone good and not weight drained, coming off losses, at a catchweight or an old leftover. That's why he never wins fantasy fights.

Your taking it to an extreme. Is it like paul williams? No of course not. But he does leave himself open because he doesn't have his hands up. Obviously the more elite fighters generally have the speed and talent to take advantage of these slight mistakes where less talented fighters or slower fighters could not. I do notice that pac does have a tendenacy to drop his high guard from time to time (especially when he's on the offensive of course), but most of the fight he keeps that high guard up. but anyways, i don't consider that to be a significant flaw of his.

So called boxing expert Teddy Atlas predicted Hatton would beat Pac. Ray charles and Stevie Wonder could see Pac would beat Hatton and it dont need no boxing expertize or knowledge to know Pac would demolish Hatton. Pac made a mockery of Teddy and embarrassed him, so Atlas humbly predicts Pac will win all the time, its the safe bet. Hes hoping Floyd can save his reputation though, he will predict Floyd to beat Pac and hopes he can come up trumps, saying i told you so.