Fighter lose and on here they're"shot exposed"but floyd has to lose to be great?

Sure Floyd will remain undefeated because of his god given talent. The fact that he beat these HOF fighters only showed how great he is! the great Ortiz the young prime Mosley beat Marquez even JMM came overweight the best welterweight Hatton the great young prime Oscar the great Judah the great Baldomir the great Gatti lol! Margarito, Cotto and Pacquiao were avoiding Floyd because they know Floyd will give them a beating like those HOF fighters! pac avoided floyd to protect his 3 loss record. margarito avoided floyd to protect his 5 loss record. and cotto just lived too damn far away.

Sure Floyd will remain undefeated because of his god given talent. The fact that he beat these HOF fighters only showed how great he is! the great Ortiz the young prime Mosley beat Marquez even JMM came overweight the best welterweight Hatton the great young prime Oscar the great Judah the great Baldomir the great Gatti lol! Margarito, Cotto and Pacquiao were avoiding Floyd because they know Floyd will give them a beating like those HOF fighters!

most fans wanted those fight. it will ADD to his current greatness, if those fight transpired... imagine if he fought margarito during those times and later gets(margarito) caught against mosley loading illegal pads. "floyd schooled AM while AM was using added pads." that is what couldve been a WOW factor. (+)points to how great floyd mayweather is. don't be silly. floyd's greatness is his wins over baldomir and a mosley who was beaten by cotto before floyd and beaten with ease by pac after floyd. you see mosley was crap before and after he fought floyd but during that small window when floyd fought him he was the bomb!

so his greatness is based on 2 fighters who arnt even 1st ballot hall of famers???and 1 is a damn accused cheater..... most fans wanted those fight. it will ADD to his current greatness, if those fight transpired... imagine if he fought margarito during those times and later gets(margarito) caught against mosley loading illegal pads. "floyd schooled AM while AM was using added pads." that is what couldve been a WOW factor. (+)points to how great floyd mayweather is.

So WW wins over Hatton, JMM, and Ortiz were better for PBF than wins over Cotto or Margarito would have been? WW Record for Hatton, JMM, and Ortiz before fighting PBF= 2-0 WW Record for Hatton, JMM, and Ortiz after fighting PBF= 0-0 Total WW Record= 2-3 who turned out to be better? the guys floyd fought or the guys floyd didn't fight? it's gonna be a nail biter stay tuned! (a good win is defined as a guy in the ring top 10) judah had 1 good win and and a ton of blow out losses(he even lost to a journeyman) baldomir had 1 good win(over judah) and a ton of blowout losses hatton had 1 good but debatable win jmm........................................record not found ortiz had 1 good win(too early to judge him until he fights a couple more good fighters) or- cotto had 5 good wins and 2 losses(to the best) omg what a bum margarito had 6 good wins and 2 losses(to the best) omg what a bum 4 wins for the 5 guys floyd fought and 11 for the 2 guys he didn't. i don't really see the difference? oh wait what if we include sharmba mitchell! oh.........still 4.

This is the weirdest sh1t ive heard in my damn life...they said his undefeated record hurts him even if he beats manny,martinez and lets say Khan..people are saying if he lost one of those fights it would enhance his legacy????is he really held at such a high level???? Larryx snapped again :laugh: need more whores

So WW wins over Hatton, JMM, and Ortiz were better for PBF than wins over Cotto or Margarito would have been? WW Record for Hatton, JMM, and Ortiz before fighting PBF= 2-0 WW Record for Hatton, JMM, and Ortiz after fighting PBF= 0-0 Total WW Record= 2-3

Cotto NEVER had a world belt that wasn't vacant until he beat Foreman at 154lbs. Learn about it! Cotto did NOT beat Quintana for any title. Cotto beat him for a VACANT TITLE. What's wrong with your brain, dude? Did you not see that the first time? And why are you still speaking about Berto when I wrote about that BEFORE you ever did on this very thread? Do you think you're introducing something? You don't realize that you're just repeating what i typed, do you? LOL@ the thickness of some people. yes and you keep ignoring that cotto beat clottey when clottey had the ibf but was stripped right before the fight. does that mean clottey isn't a world class champion because he never lost his belt. it was unfairly stripped. what's the difference anyway. if cotto beat senchenko is that a great win? he has a belt but he sucks. belts don't mean anything. you are still having trouble understanding context. when saying his i was referring to cotto's belt not quintana's. you have to read the context around it to understand. cotto beat quintana for his title and quintana won his own title later. that means the title cotto possesses is his not quintanas. the context of the rest of the sentence tells you that. i'll try to make it easier for you to understand next time.

This is the weirdest sh1t ive heard in my damn life...they said his undefeated record hurts him even if he beats manny,martinez and lets say Khan..people are saying if he lost one of those fights it would enhance his legacy????is he really held at such a high level???? I agree with the thread Larry, and I dont think Floyd needs to lose to be great, but I do beleive there is a demand that is held to specific great fighters like Jones Jr and Now Mayweather in which the viewers want to see that talent pushed the very limit. And I also agree about when they say a fighter losses he is automatcily shot, I dont beleive Hatton was shot when he fought Pac, I also dont beleive that Cotto was shot instantly after Margarito.

LOL .. Bradley was #2 since January that year. He maintained that spot after the Holt win. Hatton had faced no #1 to become the #1. Mosley was ABSOLUTELY the #1 WW. They had Cotto ranked as #2 after his Mosley win. That was in November 2007. When Floyd left, EVERYONE got bumped up. Cotto became #1 by default. Margarito destroyed Cotto. Mosley KO'd Margarito to become the #1. Where the fcuk have you been? You watch the fights? Every boxer Pacquiao fought had lost and was brought down to #5. I don't care what Arum or DLH would have you believe. Cotto went up to #4 after beating Jennings for the vacant title and then beating Clottey. Here's the difference between what you're saying and I'm saying: I've had this debate dozens of times here. Everyone knows these guys had easy tune ups. So yes .. they were coming off the biggest losses of their careers. They didn't fight anyone that could raise their rankings(other than Cotto). They were still broken after losing. Many of them admit it like Hatton and EVERYONE was saying that Hatton was never the same after the beating he took from Margarito. I actually watch boxing. I am at some of the events. You can talk that bullsh!t but I was a fan back then and before then. Pacquiao would not fight ANY winning WW at ANY point. If you're so stupid to count tune ups then make yourself proud, champ! You're the kind of guy who talks boxing but doesn't even know the difference between an opponent and a contender. Try to look that up. your facts are just wrong. i'm going by the ring rankings are you just making up your own rankings? hatton was ranked number 1. mosley was ranked number 2 behind pac. you can pretend all you want but the facts are the facts. you can debate the validity of the ranking but not the validity of the facts.

LOL ... its always the 3rd world education that gets them. Show me where I said that Hatton or JMM were #1 WWs? Is this a case of you seeing what you wanted to? Or you thought you had an opportunity to flex your internet muscles? LOL ... Ortiz fought and beat the #2 WW to become the #2 WW, but even they are riding the hype whore express. Cotto beat Carlos Quintana in a vacant title match to get his belt. Margarito beat Cotto to take his vacant tile from him. Cotto was no champion. he was a titlist because HE NEVER BEAT A CHAMPION TO BE A CHAMPION! Pacquiao beat Cotto for a vacant title that Cotto got after suffering a bloody beating at the hands of Margarito. Cotto fought Michael Jennings for yet ANOTHER vacant belt only to lose it to Pacquiao. All these guys are full of sh!t. Even Berto and Ortiz are full of sh!t. Berto won his WBC belt as a vacant title. He didn't actually beat a champion for that belt! All these boxers are sidestepping the champions and top competition in favor of vacant belts in order to make big money fights. Its disgraceful but the fans stand for it. So why would they stop? Why do you guys think I rate Floyd higher than Pacquiao, Cotto, Margarito and everyone else? Its because he's one of the few guys who has consistently faced the best in his career that has spanned 14 years! He didn't take shortcuts. He didn't use vacant belts to make a case for big fights. He faced the best and beat the best to be recognized as the best. Sure .. Floyd has accolades like Fighter of the Year, but those writer awards don't define what he has done. His record and the condition and rank of who he fought defines his legacy. You hype whores don't mind vacant belts because it gives you more fights, but it ruins boxing. The alphabet titles don't allow for their to be ONE SINGLE king of the hill. Even if a fighter unifies his division, there's always sure to be some sanctioning mess among the vultures who have their hands out. All you half asssed fans don't care that we have a phenom who doesn't need to use catchweights when fighting men that have a 20lb advantage on him. We have a phenom who was once as small as Pacquiao competing at 106lbs, but came up THE RIGHT WAY without having to use stipulations. When you have someone who rises through the ranks the old fashion way ... by winning against the best and keep doing that ... you have to acknowledge that you are seeing something rare if you are honest. Since 2008, Pacquiao has been okee-doking his way through boxers. You don't have to agree, but real fans know it. The ONLY thing that made people take notice in all of Pacquiao's wins since 2008 was the fact that he was supposed to be this small little Asian guy, when in reality he is only 2" shorter than Mosley and Mayweather. He's bigger than Hatton! And when you consider that he made the guys sweat down to within 2lbs of his own weight .. the size disparity really wasn't there ... but the feeling of a small guy beating a perceived bigger guy was still there. We thought we just saw a LW beat a WW! When in reality, the two men were relatively the same size , but if that was put in the promotion they wouldn't have sold as many tickets and PPVs. The greatness of what Mayweather has done is undeniable. What Pacquiao has done requires clever wording and omitted details for his feats to remain being seen as great. Catchweights, vacant belts, banned cheaters fighting despite being banned, targeting WWs only once they've lost ... when you paint the WHOLE picture with those details, it ain't so pretty. When you factor in that Pacquiao hasn't fought a top 3 fighter since Marquez, one begins to wonder how they can justify the rankings he's received in the past 3 years. Tell the truth. That's all any of us has to do. Just tell the truth. 3rd World education? You are wrong AGAIN!!! I went to a school that was ranked #1 in my country .... by the way, I live somewhere in North America and the last time I checked, we are not considered 3rd world. So that leaves you guessing between 2 countries .... and nowadays, we try to use the word "developing countries" not 3rd world countries .... but you are forgiven! lol! You are owning yourself buddy for saying Hatton and JMM were #1 (IN YOUR PREVIOUS POST) when Floyd fought them BUT the truth, as you finally admitted (IN THIS POST), was not at 147lbs! THAT'S THE POINT!!! So my question remains. How many fights did Hatton, Marquez and Ortiz have at 147lbs? You know, the weight that Floyd fought them at. You guys keep on saying that Floyd fought the #1 or #2 guy or the lineal champ but there is more to it than that!

No he didn't. Go look up that sh!t before you speak about it. Quintana fought Cotto for a VACANT belt. http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=33535&cat=boxer Uhh .. you mean like I mentioned above? Nice try. Weak result. Did you see how he lost to Pacquiao? He was asking his corner to quit but they wouldn't let him. Heart of a lion? I don't think so. Let's not forget that Cotto had NEVER beaten a champion until 2010 when he fought Foreman at jrMW. He's been a pro since 2001. Explain that please. I never wrote that anyone was shot. Sh!!!!!!!ttttt .. the way that Mosley and BHOP have breathed new life into their aging careers I'll never say anyone is shot. Unless they are Roy Jones. And even he can win against the right guy. Anyway .. I've never said that Ortiz was good or bad. His performance against Berto was exciting .. going toe to toe like that .. but who has he really beaten? Hell .. who has Berto beaten? I'm not a hype whore. I call it like it is. Boxing is FULL of boxers who take shortcuts like vacant titles. Its disgraceful because they sidestep champions in an effort to call themselves champions. But just because a lot of people do it doesn't make it right. It doesn't make it "legitimate" because there are numbers doing something. Don't make it seem like you're calling me out when I'm the one in this thread that talked about Berto's vacant belt first. I don't condone that sh!t and never will. I've been consistent with that. You need to get on board. You count yourself among real fans? Then you should criticize the ones that try to get slick with that sh!t as well. Instead, you probably say dumb sh!t like "I just want to see good fights". WE ALL DO! .. but that doesn't mean we should want to see the sport get ANYMORE corrupted than it already is. Shoot straight mother fcuker! And have a nice day.:) well if you read and understood the context of what i was saying you could see i was referring to cotto's belt as his not as quintanas belt. cotto beat quintana for his title and later quintana went on to win his own belt. i don't want to alarm you but berto beat a security guard named mickey rodriguez to win his belt. context. the words surrounding the others tell you the full story. please read the whole paragraph next time.

LOL .. no he wasn't. at that point Bradley was ranked ahead of Hatton when Pacquiao faced Pacquiao. After his win over Holt in April he was definitely ranked over Hatton's win over Lazcano who wobbled hatton twice, and over the feather fisted Malignaggi. Clottey in fact did beat Cotto. Cotto had to bodyslam and use low blows to edge out that match, but Clottey has NEVER beaten any top fighter EVER. Judah is Clottey's biggest win. . a lot of your facts are just wrong. hatton was still ranked ahead of bradley. mosley wasn't even ranked #1 when floyd fought him. pac never fought a welterweight ranked number #5, etc...etc...do better research please. its fun hating but just don't make up your own facts. you also say pac fights guys coming off of losses but clottey is the only one and you think clottey won! makes no sense.

Let's put this in perspective. Pactards HEAVILY CRITICIZED Floyd for fighting Marquez. Now, after winning a jrMW title, Pacquiao is stipulating that Marquez has to come up to 147 to do what he and his entire team criticized Floyd for doing? There are other fights out there for Pacquiao at WW. Just none he wants to take. He's not going to Williams. He's not going to fight Collazo. He's not going to fight Cintron. He's not going to fight Berto. He could have! Pacquiao chose not to in favor of fighting a guy he should have fought 3 years ago. Double standard anyone? Or are you going to pull that "Pacquiao is still so small" excuse out of your asss? Because if Pacquiao is still so small, why is he making Marquez come up to 147 .. a weight that Roach and Arum said that Pacquiao just could not make!!! Hypocrites. That's what Team Pacquiao is and pactards are. Pacquiao could make the LW limit for this upcoming fight according to what Arum and Roach have said in the past. Its just that they look for EVERY UNFAIR ADVANTAGE because they know that Marquez is far better skilled than Manny. We all saw it in two fights. You don't get knocked on your asss three time in the first round only to come back and box the other guy's asss off to get a draw, which should have been a win for Marquez. What kind of performance must he have put on to get that call? Pacquiao is looking at Bradley and other fighters below 147 because not enough WWs are losing these days for Manny to take the chance. Again ... Floyd beat the #1 and #2 WWs in his last two fights. When was the last time when Pacquiao faced someone who was ranked in the top 3? Its been years! And the last time Manny fought a #1 ranked boxer it looked like the boxing lesson Marquez gave to him. The fact that I even have to tell you this means that your a nuthugger who doesn't watch boxing. Easy work!

Dumb thread...tell Floyd to fight Pacman or him and his Stans should just STFU

Ortiz fought and beat the #2 WW to become the #2 WW, but even they are riding the hype whore express. Cotto beat Carlos Quintana in a vacant title match to get his belt. Margarito beat Cotto to take his vacant tile from him. Cotto was no champion. he was a titlist because HE NEVER BEAT A CHAMPION TO BE A CHAMPION! Pacquiao beat Cotto for a vacant title that Cotto got after suffering a bloody beating at the hands of Margarito. Cotto fought Michael Jennings for yet ANOTHER vacant belt only to lose it to Pacquiao. cotto beat quintana for his title and later quintana went on to win his own belt. i don't want to alarm you but berto beat a security guard named mickey rodriguez to win his belt. where's mickey now? cotto also beat clottey when clottey had the ibf but was stripped right before the fight. cotto should of had 2 belts going into the pac fight but i guess he was shot according to you? but ortiz wasn't shot even though he got knocked out at 140 and floored twice vs berto who won his belt off a guy named mickey? what a strange thought process.

By the way, you say you don't lie, when you lie all the freaking time. Just today you lied over and over in some thread, saying Cotto won the vacant belt and then lost it to Pacquiao in his next fight. He beat Clottey in between jackass. If im not mistaken, you're talking to the guy who thought "pinnacle" was "pentacle." its a bit hard to take him seriously after that, lol

By the way, you say you don't lie, when you lie all the freaking time. Just today you lied over and over in some thread, saying Cotto won the vacant belt and then lost it to Pacquiao in his next fight. He beat Clottey in between jackass.

First off. I don't lie. I don't need to. When i wrote 147, I was referring to the division, not the specific pound. My point is and always has been in our debate that Pacquiao is having Marquez come up to a division that Pacquiao claims that he was NEVER comfortable at. Period. Bradley was supposed to fight Khan. All real boxing fans know this. Which is probably why you don't. Bradley doesn't actually "deserve" anything for beating Devon Alexander. There is other talent out there at 140 but Bradley won't fight them. He has NOT established any real dominance. If he were to fight and beat Khan, then he could make the claim. Until then, Alexander is the best name on his resume aside from an aged Campbell. At what point did I ever debate the value of Mayweather's win over Marquez? You have a reading comprehension problem? Sure Mayweather beat Marquez, but did it warrant "Oooo's and Ahhhhh's"? No, it didn't. That's you filling in the blanks to have something to dispute. My problem with Pacquiao is that he waited 3 years for Marquez, who unquestionably has better boxing skills than anyone Pacquiao has fought in his last 6 fights, to age. He could have made that third match back in 2008. Pacquiao refused because he was a coward. there's really no other explanation. Pacquiao deserves a lot of credit for fighting Cotto .. a man who had never won a non-vacant title in his career until moving up to jrMW? Get real. Pacquaio deserves a lot of credit for fighting Clottey .. a man who has NEVER beaten a champion period, and has always folded like a pair of freshly pressed pants once he ventures to the top level talent? Get real. You're sounding more and more like a hype whore. Hatton was damaged goods who went to Floyd Sr to learn defense, but came out swinging for the fences from the beginning. I'll give Pacquiao as much credit as one can with Hatton in the condition he was in. He wasn't on top. He was coming off the biggest loss of his career and his subsequent tune ups showed that, as he looked nothing like the Hatton from a year before. A man who targets boxers ONLY once they lose ain't kickin' down no doors. My point was that Pacquiao's last three fights(Clottey, Margarito, Mosley) were no worse than Pacquiao's first three fights(DLH, Hatton, Cotto). Its not an argument. Its the truth. What makes the last three any worse than the first three. Nothing really. But I asked you a question you not so cleverly dodged: "If Floyd is fighting #1 and #2, and Pacquiao is fighting #4 and #5 ... then whose wins hold more value??????" I'm not just asking about Pacquiao's last three fights either. I'm talking his last 6 or 7 fights. That is still on the table whether you're going to man up and answer it or not. But your last quote above sounded like you were trying to politely bow out, so I won't expect much from you. Hatton was the best fighter at 140 when Pacquiao kicked his ass. Cotto was the second best fighter at welterweight, with a win over the best welterweight. Clottey arguably beat Cotto, and was probably the third best fighter in the division when Pacquiao beat him. You can spin it all you want, but anyone who isn't desperately trying to kill Pacquiao doesn't bother denying any of those wins, because only trolling haters like you who lie to make Pacquiao appear as if every win he has was at a catchweight against someone coming off a brutal loss try to deny it. And with that, you can go ahead and respond with the utter bullsh** I know you will. You'll tell yourself you won, and make yourself look like even more of a jackass, so have fun.

The problem is that Pac never fought the #3 guy. He was fighting 5th ranked losers. They may have had star name recognition, but after you get your asss beat you move down on the list. No matter what ANYONE says, Pacquiao ONLY targeted men who were coming off losses. He did not target even one winning champion. That's not an opinion. That's a fact. You cannot seek fights with men who aren't the top of their division and be considered at the top for doing so. Its common sense. No math or philosophy required. 2008 was the ONLY year didn't compete since 1996. In that time, Cotto won a belt and lost it within 8 months. Margarito won a belt and lost in withing 8 months. How are these men even close to being the best? They were both defeated BEFORE Pacquiao ever got to them. Keep in mind that neither Cotto or Margarito have ever beaten a champion until Cotto beat Yuri Foreman. They were not special in any other regard except for having Arum's backing behind them. Proof of that is Margarito being banned and then having it lifted to face Pacquiao. where do you think pac got his belt from? he beat cotto coming off a win over top welterweight clottey in what was supposed to be a unification fight. both ortiz and cotto got knocked out and came back to win belts yet ortiz is a winning champ and cotto is shot for some reason. obviously this makes no sense to any impartial person. didn't margarito beat cotto who had the wba belt? and cotto beat clottey when clottey was the ibf champ but clottey was stripped right before the fight so does that not count because of corruption? cotto and margarito also beat several guys who won belts after losing so maybe they weren't bums after all?