Does Mayweather/Ortiz enhance or take away from Mayweather's Legacy?

has no effect who the fuck is Victor Ortiz? oh yeah, the guy who beat Berto and quit against Maidana fight is notable only for how the KO occurred

I'm not sure it will do anything for his legacy, Ortiz had one really good fight in a quite patchy career, so he's hardly a name to boast about.

it's a frowned upon victory and it will be one of the highlights of floyd's career. it's gonna negatively affect his legacy.

In what way? It enhances his resume with an extra win and an extra knockout, but when they marvel about his career years from now what exactly about the fight enhanced his profile? What could they say about the fight that would reflect positively? I can't think of anything. Ortiz was the champ coming off an impressive performance, it is what it is, had Ortiz not taken the route that he did (Intentionally headbutting) things could have ended the way most would have wanted, but that wasn't the case so we move on. Still, how doesn't this enhance his legacy? He won fair and square against a solid opponent.

Yes, but something about the stigma behind "Cheap Shotting" goes against the very spirit and reason people watch boxing in the first place. Which is the reason this ending has become such a huge talking point. Whether it's the same in term of sportsmanship(and you can argue what Floyd did was more legal than what Jordan did,) it is perceived as not sporting and per above against the spirit or honor of the sport. Whether that is correct/valid or not is anyone's guess, but it's the reason people keep discussing it. But as long as people debate it and are uncertain as to what to make of it, it lacks a certain luster. very well said..... a win that is hounded by a lot of big questions could not be taken to enhance a fighter's legacy.... sportsmanship still matters in boxing and is over and above anything else... unless boxing is no longer considered as a sport...

Yeah, I was irritated b/c I wanted to see the whole fight and it play out naturally. But one of my first thoughts was as a fan of boxing, a result like this is good for boxing. And Great for the way Mayweather sells his fights. All and all, I would just really like to see a good fight play out. Summer of 2011 has been extremely lacking. I also had tickets to Ward/Froch.. I'm dying to watch a fight! I haven't been bothered by that because I believe the fight was already going downhill, Ortiz gave his best effort in round four and really did nothing, then he fell apart. So to me he was already falling apart, so it was only a matter of time before that fight went south on him in a hurry. I feel that though because I would much rather watch a fight play out, but all it takes is one mistake for a boxing match to end and that was one whopper of a mistake. Good to see that from time to time also.

I agree with everything you are saying, but I'm not saying the KO punch defines Mayweather's standing in history. I was just asking what ppl's opinions were on how this fight affects Mayweather's legacy. I also think ppl's opinion can be somewhat of an indicator. I do not at all think it's an accurate indicator. But at this point in the evolution of how this fight is viewed, a poll can tell part of the story. A lot of times, details, even the uglier ones. Like those you mentioned with Duran, slip away over time. However, I just think with the clock running down and Mayweather IMO trying to bolster his legacy as his career winds down.. He is likely looking for big pro mayweather statements with his fights. I agree and at this point the only thing that can really define his career is Pacquiao. It has to happen. I wish they would just fight so boxing junkies didn't have to twiddle their thumbs and go back and forth for hours over minor details and random happenings.

If it was the first punch sure, but the first punch didn't take him out. It was the second punch, so he had clear warning because he already got punched, what did he do look away~ Ortiz failed a very basic boxing test, I can't fault Floyd for Ortiz failing the most very basic rule in boxing, especially after he already got punched once so he could have at least tried to not get punched but he did nothing of the sort. Straight up, Floyd can't win like that and get love just not how he is viewed but it does actually play into his part so does it hurt him no and in the grand scheme in boxing to me there was no way Ortiz was really doing anything for him, would people be less outraged if Floyd won in a normal fashion sure but I wouldn't expect it to matter at all really it would be something else only less talked about. Generally speaking memorable and getting talked about are good, Floyd wins a more normal way the fight garners a lot less attention post fight. For Floyd that will end up good, because he is already the bad guy and in taht situation with Ortiz Floyd did what the bad guy (in most peoples mind) would do. Yeah, I was irritated b/c I wanted to see the whole fight and it play out naturally. But one of my first thoughts was as a fan of boxing, a result like this is good for boxing. And Great for the way Mayweather sells his fights. All and all, I would just really like to see a good fight play out. Summer of 2011 has been extremely lacking. I also had tickets to Ward/Froch.. I'm dying to watch a fight!

Yes, but something about the stigma behind "Cheap Shotting" goes against the very spirit and reason people watch boxing in the first place. Which is the reason this ending has become such a huge talking point. Whether it's the same in term of sportsmanship(and you can argue what Floyd did was more legal than what Jordan did,) it is perceived as not sporting and per above against the spirit or honor of the sport. Whether that is correct/valid or not is anyone's guess, but it's the reason people keep discussing it. But as long as people debate it and are uncertain as to what to make of it, it lacks a certain luster. If it was the first punch sure, but the first punch didn't take him out. It was the second punch, so he had clear warning because he already got punched, what did he do look away~ Ortiz failed a very basic boxing test, I can't fault Floyd for Ortiz failing the most very basic rule in boxing, especially after he already got punched once so he could have at least tried to not get punched but he did nothing of the sort. Straight up, Floyd can't win like that and get love just not how he is viewed but it does actually play into his part so does it hurt him no and in the grand scheme in boxing to me there was no way Ortiz was really doing anything for him, would people be less outraged if Floyd won in a normal fashion sure but I wouldn't expect it to matter at all really it would be something else only less talked about. Generally speaking memorable and getting talked about are good, Floyd wins a more normal way the fight garners a lot less attention post fight. For Floyd that will end up good, because he is already the bad guy and in taht situation with Ortiz Floyd did what the bad guy (in most peoples mind) would do.

I agree with everything you are saying, but I'm not saying the KO punch defines Mayweather's standing in history. I was just asking what ppl's opinions were on how this fight affects Mayweather's legacy. I also think ppl's opinion can be somewhat of an indicator. I do not at all think it's an accurate indicator. But at this point in the evolution of how this fight is viewed, a poll can tell part of the story. A lot of times, details, even the uglier ones. Like those you mentioned with Duran, slip away over time. However, I just think with the clock running down and Mayweather IMO trying to bolster his legacy as his career winds down.. He is likely looking for big pro mayweather statements with his fights. I agree and at this point the only thing that can really define his career is Pacquiao. It has to happen.

Listen, Jack Dempsey did dirtier things in the ring than Mayweather. Has that defined his legacy? No. Roberto Duran did dirtier things including a blatant low blow to win his first championship. Add to that Duran once quit in the middle of a fight out of frustration. That does not define his legacy. In fact he's more popular than ever now. Many of the people voting in NSB will vote one way with an agenda no matter what the outcome. So when you say this vote is an "indicator" it really isn't because it does not represent the entire boxing community. It only represents a segment. As it stands most of the professional boxers, trainers, and pundits I've seen interviewed do not have problem with what Mayweather and are unsympathetic with Ortiz.. If you are disappointed as a fan, that's understandable. If you say it was "bad sportsmanship" OK.But to imply that this fight somehow defines his standing in history is ridiculous. Especially when Mayweather didn't do anything illegal and Ortiz was dirty(and stupid) himself. I agree with everything you are saying, but I'm not saying the KO punch defines Mayweather's standing in history. I was just asking what ppl's opinions were on how this fight affects Mayweather's legacy. I also think ppl's opinion can be somewhat of an indicator. I do not at all think it's an accurate indicator. But at this point in the evolution of how this fight is viewed, a poll can tell part of the story. A lot of times, details, even the uglier ones. Like those you mentioned with Duran, slip away over time. However, I just think with the clock running down and Mayweather IMO trying to bolster his legacy as his career winds down.. He is likely looking for big pro mayweather statements with his fights.

great...it became a Jordan convo "Jordan's Push" is probably the best paralel possible for debating and better understanding this topic. Everyone should be happy Zelenoff's Hartley KO isn't a talking point! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxumQTjBLgY

Exactly per what you quoted, I said "for the most part legacy is decided by fan and people's perception of a fighters career." While yes a poll on NSB can be somewhat of an indicator of public perception. At NO TIME did I say legacy is determined by an NSB poll. Listen, Jack Dempsey did dirtier things in the ring than Mayweather. Has that defined his legacy? No. Roberto Duran did dirtier things including a blatant low blow to win his first championship. Add to that Duran once quit in the middle of a fight out of frustration. That does not define his legacy. In fact he's more popular than ever now. Many of the people voting in NSB will vote one way with an agenda no matter what the outcome. So when you say this vote is an "indicator" it really isn't because it does not represent the entire boxing community. It only represents a segment. As it stands most of the professional boxers, trainers, and pundits I've seen interviewed do not have problem with what Mayweather and are unsympathetic towards Ortiz.. If you are disappointed as a fan, that's understandable. If you say it was "bad sportsmanship" OK.But to imply that this fight somehow defines his standing in history is ridiculous. Especially when Mayweather didn't do anything illegal and Ortiz was dirty(and stupid) himself.

Still it is the same exact thing they were deciding moments where the better guy took advantage of another guy being naive. If you view Jordan as pulling off a fine veteran move you shouldn't really have an issue, if you beef over Jordan pushing off fine have an issue with this. The nature of the sport changes little, did Utah have a chance to get back at the Bull nope exactly like Ortiz. It was the last move and it ended the series in six instead of seven so yea it robbed the fans of seeing Jordan in an actual game seven of the finals where he had a chance to lose, game seven of the finals was something he never did so he could have enhanced his legacy, instead we had him push Byron Russel to the ground and hitting a wide open jump shot. Depends probably starting to hear words in six month because Floyd did say it take 6 months to build his fights so really it should be in six months if he intends on fighting in September next year, unless the big one comes off will probably know about that within 3 months Yes, but something about the stigma behind "Cheap Shotting" goes against the very spirit and reason people watch boxing in the first place. Which is the reason this ending has become such a huge talking point. Whether it's the same in term of sportsmanship(and you can argue what Floyd did was more legal than what Jordan did,) it is perceived as not sporting and per above against the spirit or honor of the sport. Whether that is correct/valid or not is anyone's guess, but it's the reason people keep discussing it. But as long as people debate it and are uncertain as to what to make of it, it lacks a certain luster.

I think it will tarnish Floyd's legacy if he doesnt rematch Ortiz. Floyd will be remembered as a dirty fighter in the future.

Right, but Jordan hitting that shot off a push didn't result with the game ending midway through the second quarter.. Leaving fans confused and wondering where the other quarters went. I think a big problem with this fight is it left a fans feeling ripped off, and a lot off that ripped off feeling is attributed to how the KO came.. I think the parallel is relevant, but in the end I think Jordan's play strikes fans as having been heroic in going above and beyond, and Mayweather's play being less than heroic.. How long do you think it will be until Mayweather fights again? I'm guessing it's against Amir Khan and it will be announced well inside of 12 months time. Still it is the same exact thing they were deciding moments where the better guy took advantage of another guy being naive. If you view Jordan as pulling off a fine veteran move you shouldn't really have an issue, if you beef over Jordan pushing off fine have an issue with this. The nature of the sport changes little, did Utah have a chance to get back at the Bull nope exactly like Ortiz. It was the last move and it ended the series in six instead of seven so yea it robbed the fans of seeing Jordan in an actual game seven of the finals where he had a chance to lose, game seven of the finals was something he never did so he could have enhanced his legacy, instead we had him push Byron Russel to the ground and hitting a wide open jump shot. Depends probably starting to hear words in six month because Floyd did say it take 6 months to build his fights so really it should be in six months if he intends on fighting in September next year, unless the big one comes off will probably know about that within 3 months

It look's good on paper: beats a pretty tough, young, hungry fighter. It look's bad when watching the fight: Ortiz should not have given Floyd any once of respect at all (all these guys that fight him try to be friendly only to get punched on the break or catch an elbow for their troubles). Portrays the image that one of the icons of the sport is down right dirty, thus the sport is dirty. It looks bad in the context of Floyd's career: He is viewed by many as one of the greatest boxers ever yet had to act in an unsportsman-like way to win against an overmatched boxer. I agree that Ortiz's headbutt antics were drastically uncalled for but he was penalized within the confines of the rules.If it wasn't really a bad thing to do, I don't see why so many in the media called it a cowardly act. I surmise there will be dirt coming out about behind the scenes talks between Floyd and Victor if there is no rematch. That "dirt" is what is going to really tarnish Floyd's career. And the ending happened within the context of the rules. So what's the difference?

IMO a better defense against "this fight won't enhance his legacy" would be Mayweather was going to win anyway, not people won't care or remember how the fight ended. But that's just my opinion. Pretty much how I see it. Ortiz was way out of his depth and really did nothing to deserve this fight. Floyd got a belt out of it, but no real enhancement to his standing at all.

You think boxing fans memories are that short, especially when we live in an era when you can access all the information about fights and fighters with such ease? The only people likely to look up his record in 20 or 30 years time are going to be boxing fans, and as such they will look past the resume and into the history of his fights. It happens everyday on this website, many or most of the posters here will take the trouble to find out and even watch fighters who fought before they were born. Now I know how much you like Floyd and all that, but even a flomo couldnt be so stupid as to not see what stares them in the face every day. IMO a better defense against "this fight won't enhance his legacy" would be Mayweather was going to win anyway, not people won't care or remember how the fight ended. But that's just my opinion.

Yes it will, unless Ortiz becomes some great fighter. If not nobody will care or think twice when looking at Floyd's record and seeing a KO win over Ortiz. At the end of the day it was a KO win for a belt. Nothing more, nothing less and unless Ortiz becomes something special, nobody will care or think twice when seeing his name. You think boxing fans memories are that short, especially when we live in an era when you can access all the information about fights and fighters with such ease? The only people likely to look up his record in 20 or 30 years time are going to be boxing fans, and as such they will look past the resume and into the history of his fights. It happens everyday on this website, many or most of the posters here will take the trouble to find out and even watch fighters who fought before they were born. Now I know how much you like Floyd and all that, but even a flomo couldnt be so stupid as to not see what stares them in the face every day.