Without Oscar do Manny and Floyd become crossover stars?

No and that is a fact.

I think so thats the reason every body is trying to fight Mayweather and Pacman now. I mean it's what happens every body wants to fight the cash cow you had Mayweather being a cheerleader for De la hoya when De la hoya fought Ricardo. And he also had Hopkins praying that Oscar would get past that guy felix from Germany to get that cash money so I would say yes.

Sugar ray leonard is an icon even to the casual sports fan (of appropriate age). I hear his name in popular culture all the time. My favorite is from seinfeld when George Costanza thinks his boss looks just like Ray, and racist allegations ensue. :D I'm not so sure internet had much to do with oscars fame. Sure, internet was around in the mid 90s, but not as prevalent as it is now. It was more due to his good looks (no homo, really!) and hollywood esque story (winning the gold after he promised his dying mom etc etc). On top of that, he fought ferociously. He was a hit among the women for his looks and his sad story, and among the men (except for jro obviously) for his in-ring style. On top of that, he had mexican roots. Oscar was kind of like a perfect storm when making a boxing celebrity to get mainstream appeal. :lol1: :lol1:

Oscar sacrificed his boxing career to help his promotional career against Pac. He made a smart business decision to basically hand off the torch to Pac and even struck a deal with Top Rank that gave him rights to Manny's fights as long as he was fighting another GBP fighter. Against PBF, there was actually a demand for the fight and it was made. Although, PBF's drawing power was definitely helped even though most of it came from people that wanted him to lose. He did wonders for both of their careers and used his name ingeniously to draw in more revenue for boxing. Regardless of what anyone says, DLH was in it to lose it against Pac. At one point he was getting destroyed in the corner, by reflex he turned his way out of it, and then jumped back in so he could keep taking punches...

Sugar ray leonard is an icon even to the casual sports fan (of appropriate age). I hear his name in popular culture all the time. My favorite is from seinfeld when George Costanza thinks his boss looks just like Ray, and racist allegations ensue. :D I'm not so sure internet had much to do with oscars fame. Sure, internet was around in the mid 90s, but not as prevalent as it is now. It was more due to his good looks (no homo, really!) and hollywood esque story (winning the gold after he promised his dying mom etc etc). On top of that, he fought ferociously. He was a hit among the women for his looks and his sad story, and among the men (except for jro obviously) for his in-ring style. On top of that, he had mexican roots. Oscar was kind of like a perfect storm when making a boxing celebrity to get mainstream appeal.

Has there ever been an "A"-list boxing celebrity who wasn't a heavyweight in America? Roy Jones is probably the closest to one I can think of and calling him an "A"-lister is questionable. Oscar Dela hoya? Ray Leonard?

Yea. The real question is without 24/7 do Manny and Floyd become crossover stars? Hell No....

Yea. The real question is without 24/7 do Manny and Floyd become crossover stars? I doubt it. Manny is too small (I'd guess he wouldn't have moved north of lightweight at least if not for oscar?), and he lacks the personality. Him not being american could work for him or against him. I'm not entirely sure about that. Floyd needs some platform to let his personality shine (and sell). Has there ever been an a-list celeb boxer whos perceived as boring (defensive minded)?

Exactly, 24/7 was a tremendous boost for PPV sales for HBO. Yea. The real question is without 24/7 do Manny and Floyd become crossover stars?

The 24/7 is a great point. I looked over that, and you can't really. Fact is those guys beat Oscar pre 24/7 while both Floyd and Pac had 24/7 not only for Oscar but the fights following that as well. 24/7 does help sell PPV tremendously IMO. Who knows if Tito, Shane, and B-Hop would have sold more if they had 24/7. Exactly, 24/7 was a tremendous boost for PPV sales for HBO.

Another factor worthy of mentioning is Oscar (the leading man of boxing) being on the verge of retiring. The boxingfans that bought oscars fight probably wanted to keep watching fights, so they adopted floyd and manny who they had gotten to know through the 24/7.

a 24/7 with b-hop would be awesome. Especially a younger, angrier hopkins. That would for sure have made him a bigger star. He sure knows how to be controversial. :cool2:

It's not only about them beating Oscar. I think 24/7 had a lot to do with it as well. And obviously, as you mentioned. The "it" factor. Floyds "spectacular" personality, and the fact that hes got the aura of invincibility. And with pac, well, hes one of the most exciting small fighters of all time really. The 24/7 is a great point. I looked over that, and you can't really. Fact is those guys beat Oscar pre 24/7 while both Floyd and Pac had 24/7 not only for Oscar but the fights following that as well. 24/7 does help sell PPV tremendously IMO. Who knows if Tito, Shane, and B-Hop would have sold more if they had 24/7.

It's hard to say. Because, both have that "it" factor to be crossover stars. But, then again they needed Oscar. They weren't stars without Oscar. However they did take advantage after the Oscar fights. And, because both have that "it" factor. Tito sold good PPV numbers but not at the level of Floyd and Pac. Not even close. Mosley didn't become at their level, neither did B-Hop. If all it takes to become a crossover, PPV star is getting a "W" over Oscar. Then those other fighters would be a consistent mili PPV buys. But, they weren't. However, Floyd and Pac are. So it's really hard to say. I guess is what you do with the opportunity. And, both Floyd and Pac got the ball and ran with it. Maybe the others just dropped it. It's not only about them beating Oscar. I think 24/7 had a lot to do with it as well. And obviously, as you mentioned. The "it" factor. Floyds "spectacular" personality, and the fact that hes got the aura of invincibility. And with pac, well, hes one of the most exciting small fighters of all time really.

Like in the WWE, for example, one wrestler 'gets over with the fans' by beating some name guy. Same type of thing in boxing. Oscar was the name that helped both Manny and Floyd get over. However, Manny and Floyd both had to bring something special to become stars in their own right. Floyd has the mouth and the record. Manny has the life story and the fighting style.

It's hard to say. Because, both have that "it" factor to be crossover stars. But, then again they needed Oscar. They weren't stars without Oscar. However they did take advantage after the Oscar fights. And, because both have that "it" factor. Tito sold good PPV numbers but not at the level of Floyd and Pac. Not even close. Mosley didn't become at their level, neither did B-Hop. If all it takes to become a crossover, PPV star is getting a "W" over Oscar. Then those other fighters would be a consistent mili PPV buys. But, they weren't. However, Floyd and Pac are. So it's really hard to say. I guess is what you do with the opportunity. And, both Floyd and Pac got the ball and ran with it. Maybe the others just dropped it. what jro said. them beating oscar did help boost their stardom but beating oscar in itself doesn't make you a million ppv fighter.

This is why the whole "Oscar made Floyd" is bullsh1t, to a point...... You do realise that BHop STOPPED Oscar, and his career still didnt take of in terms of PPV sales......Floyd put in his worse performance against Oscar and still did huge numbers after the fight....... Look at Shane Mosley, he came up in weight and beat a PRIME Ocsar, why did his carrer not take off, and Shane has a more crowdpleasing style..... Oscar did help, but both Manny and Floyd would still be selling huge numbers damn good point

It's hard to say. Because, both have that "it" factor to be crossover stars. But, then again they needed Oscar. They weren't stars without Oscar. However they did take advantage after the Oscar fights. And, because both have that "it" factor. Tito sold good PPV numbers but not at the level of Floyd and Pac. Not even close. Mosley didn't become at their level, neither did B-Hop. If all it takes to become a crossover, PPV star is getting a "W" over Oscar. Then those other fighters would be a consistent mili PPV buys. But, they weren't. However, Floyd and Pac are. So it's really hard to say. I guess is what you do with the opportunity. And, both Floyd and Pac got the ball and ran with it. Maybe the others just dropped it.

This is why the whole "Oscar made Floyd" is bullsh1t, to a point...... You do realise that BHop STOPPED Oscar, and his career still didnt take of in terms of PPV sales......Floyd put in his worse performance against Oscar and still did huge numbers after the fight....... Look at Shane Mosley, he came up in weight and beat a PRIME Ocsar, why did his carrer not take off, and Shane has a more crowdpleasing style..... Oscar did help, but both Manny and Floyd would still be selling huge numbers no doubt but not as much as theiy are making right now

i think Pac would have. he got that style that people love and would have had the story of the lil guy thats beating the piss out all the big guys. Floyd on the other hand would be at BHop status.