more impressive roy goin from 154 to hw..or manny going from fly weight to ww

Look, Pac is amazing. He deserves mad credit, and he's getting it. However, if you look at everyone he's faced since Delahoya, they have all been strategically planned to make Pacquiao look unhuman. ReallY? Show us your list who Pac should fought early in 2009 after the Oscar fight who brings more challenge and money altogether. Take note, Pac only fought twice a year and just moved two divisions above with just one fight at lightweight to boot. So its impossible for him to fight all the top 4 welterweights in 2009. Ring Magazine Welterweight Rankings 2009 1. Shane Mosley 2. Miguel Cotto 3. Antonio Margarito 4. Joshua Clottey 5. Manny Pacqiao In year 2009 Pac fought... In May, Hatton <<<<<< who? In November, Cotto <<<<<< who? In year 2010 Pac fought... In March, Clottey <<<<<< who? In November, Margarito <<<<<< who? Floyd retired and went to vacation so he was out in the picture. Take note, any lightweight champs against Pac in terms of challenges and money <<<<<<<< lineal champ Hatton at 140. And so was the same to any light welterweight champs after the Hatton fight against <<<<<<<< top 4 welterweight champs in 2009 - Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley.

I disagree. I think Hopkins of 1993 takes both Julian Jackson and gerald mcclellan to school. Bernard was on a 22 fight win streak heading in to their match and displayed the funamentals that later made him champ. 1993 Hopkins is fundamentally more sound than both Jackson and McClellan. I can see McClellan coming out very aggressive and trying to take Bernard out early without success. By the 5th round Hopkins would start picking him apart. The 1993 version of B-Hop All that who would win in a fantasy fight is irrelevant. It's who was considered the best in the division at the time. And, B-Hop wasn't considered the best in the division. He wasn't even ranked in the top 5 of the division. And, that's the argument. Now who would win what in fantasy fight.

I can see McClellan coming out very aggressive and trying to take Bernard out early without success. By the 5th round Hopkins would start picking him apart. The 1993 version of B-Hop

When Roy fought Hopkins. Julian Jackson and Gerald McClellan were better than Hopkins at MW. Hopkins wasn't the best MW when Roy fought him. Hopkins became the best MW few years later. But, just because B-Hop became the best MW few years later doesn't mean he was the best MW at the time he fought Roy. So Roy doesn't get the credit of "beating the best MW" Yes go to bed, that will be the smartest thing you could do tonight. I disagree. I think Hopkins of 1993 takes both Julian Jackson and gerald mcclellan to school. Bernard was on a 22 fight win streak heading in to their match and displayed the funamentals that later made him champ. 1993 Hopkins is fundamentally more sound than both Jackson and McClellan.

Uhm, ok, Barrera had already lost several time before Pac beat him, notably when his losses to Junior Jones and Morales. And, your point is?

Yes, I read this perfectly: "Roy at his best at 175 maybe beats Tarver". Don't you know how ignorant that was? Look, Pac is amazing. He deserves mad credit, and he's getting it. However, if you look at everyone he's faced since Delahoya, they have all been strategically planned to make Pacquiao look unhuman. All I'm saying is that Jones' win over Ruiz eclipses anything Pacquiao has done so far based on all the intangibles. You don't have to agree with me, you are entitled to your opinion, but it does look like more members agree with me than you. Bye bye. Followed by "Hell he beat Tarver the first time" so apparently you don't know how to read so well. Ruiz win does not eclipse the Cotto win. And, doesn't even come close to the first Barrera win.

Let me adress this before I go to bed & make you feel sillier. Hopkins never lost again for 11 years. Ok, with that in mind, whether he was automatically declared the best @ 160 is irrelevant. Hew was the best fighter there, the world just didn't discover it yet. Then, Jones became the best at 160 and handed it back over to Hoppkins as a matter of fact. Then, as soon as he moved up he was again the best at 168 after tearing Toney up for his first loss. Then, again, Roy went up to 175 and was imediately ranked first there as well. It's cool to have an opinion but you know nothing about boxing history outside of what Manny was doing in the 90's it seems. When Roy fought Hopkins. Julian Jackson and Gerald McClellan were better than Hopkins at MW. Hopkins wasn't the best MW when Roy fought him. Hopkins became the best MW few years later. But, just because B-Hop became the best MW few years later doesn't mean he was the best MW at the time he fought Roy. So Roy doesn't get the credit of "beating the best MW" Yes go to bed, that will be the smartest thing you could do tonight.

Lol, how am I giving Pac no credit? I just am agreeing that Jones' achievement was more prestigious. You are being extra defensive because if it has nothing to do with the last 3 years and Pacquiao, you don't want to hear it. Chump. OK, either you're trolling or you're an idiot. That hater post that you were replying to wasn't meant for you it was to Reloaded. So what are you talking about?

Hey dummy, old 35 year old Jones that had just went back down from heavyweight DID beat Tarver, so how does he maybe beat Tarver in his prime? He did beat him. He also beat him in the 80's as an ametuer. See, this is what I mean about doing your homework, for real. And yes, Jones walked all over much better fighters at his best. Tarver would have been a cake walk. He would have never got caught by the close your eyes hayemaker Tarver floored him with when Jones' reflexes were shot. :lurk: Do you not know how to read? I said, "hell he beat Tarver the first time" Do you know what that means? That means that he beat Tarver the first time. Please read before replying "dummy" And, no Jones doesn't walk over a prime Tarver. No Tarver wouldn't been a cake walk. Roy might have not been caught by that shot. But, that doesn't mean that Tarver didn't have the size, stance, and style to give a prime Roy trouble.

(Bolded) No, this is what Pacquiao fans do if anyone disagrees with him being the end all be all of boxing. Grow up. No, you should grow up and stop assuming. When you refuse to ever give any type of credit at all to a fighter then you're a hater. I don't care if it's Roy, Pac, Floyd, Hopkins, anybody who deserves credit and doesn't get it then they're hating... That's like me not giving Roy credit for a "green" Hopkins(even though Roy wasn't at his best yet) or me saying that Toney was drained when Roy fought him. I mean making excuses on good wins and not giving credit is being a hater.

Lol, Roy got ko'd because he was a shell of himself by the time he faced Tarver. Roy walks all over Antonio and stops him at his best. Roy at his best at 175 maybe beats Tarver. Hell he beat Tarver the first time. But, Tarver will always have the size, stance, and style to give any version of Roy problems. No way any version of Roy walks over a prime Tarver. Beats him? Sure, walk over him? No.

Oh brother. Hopkins fool. You will say: Uhhh, Hopkins was green. I will say, if he was so green, how come he didnt lose again for 11 years and went on to defend for a record 20 times straight? At the time Hopkins was the best 160 had to offer whether the world knew it yet or not. Peace. I'm not going to say he was green because at the end of the day Roy was at his peak either. But, B-Hop wasn't the best MW at the time. If so how did he become the best MW prior to Roy facing him? B-Hop became the best MW years after Roy. So I will ask again when did Roy beat the best MW? "Peace" Yes go to sleep because you won't have a smart reply.

Roy's win over Ruiz>Pac's win over Margarito, no doubt. Pac's win over Cotto is slightly better than Roy's win over Ruiz though, all things considered. Roy gave up a lot of weight to Ruiz, and although Ruiz was in no way the best in the division he was one of the better guys in the division. Yes, Roy gave up a number of pounds, but weight is far from everything and a fat James Toney did the same later on. Cotto is a better fighter than Ruiz, even the version of him that Pacquiao fought...I thought he was noticably better around the Mosley fight. On the other hand, the catchweight does count against Manny a little bit. it doesnt make Cotto from a good fighter to a **** fighter magically, but it does count for something. but overall I still consider the Cotto win a little better than a win over Ruiz, but not by too much.

Ruiz vs Marg is a weak comparison. Ruiz vs Cotto is a much better comparison. i was just comparing the extreme weight differencial..not talent

people say its amazing manny beat a man who outweighted him by 17 pounds..ruiz outweighted roy by 30+..both amazing runs,both historic....but i gotta go with roy Ruiz vs Marg is a weak comparison. Ruiz vs Cotto is a much better comparison.

people say its amazing manny beat a man who outweighted him by 17 pounds..ruiz outweighted roy by 30+..both amazing runs,both historic....but i gotta go with roy

That is a tough question. Then again, Roy was still outweighed by 30-something pounds, which is why I find that question difficult. Cotto to me was still a top fighter when Manny beat him. Not the guy who fought Mosley but still very good. Ruiz has never been very good. The weight is a factor that makes me lean toward Roy. That and bias ;). I agree the weight difference is what makes which win was better debatable. I don't think it's as clear for either guy as some posters make it out to be.

I won't disagree that Ruiz was a better opponent than that version of Margarito. But, I really don't count Pac as a JMW, I count him as a WW, Pac never fought at the full JMW limit. So I think Ruiz win and the Cotto win is a better comparison. And, is Ruiz a better fighter than what that Cotto was? That is a tough question. Then again, Roy was still outweighed by 30-something pounds, which is why I find that question difficult. Cotto to me was still a top fighter when Manny beat him. Not the guy who fought Mosley but still very good. Ruiz has never been very good. The weight is a factor that makes me lean toward Roy. That and bias ;).

roy is my favourite fighter, but roy never won a belt at 154, pacquiao won a belt at flyweight and since i think ruiz was better than margarito they are even sick of these stupid hate threads gettin my ass handed to me in tekken and i just need to get off the computer now

Roy fought one fight at heavyweight against a paper champion. What Pac did was better. I know people will say the lower weights are separated by less pounds, but the percentage weight changes have to be looked at. For the sake of argument, I will ignore Manny's bull**** JMW title. Manny has titles from 112-147. This is a 31.25% change. Roy Jones Jr 160-200 - 25% change Manny's achievement is slightly better I'm afraid.