Max Kellerman calls Pacquiao the greatest fighter ever! Do you agree?

Ranking ATGs is all about perception. The problem with Manny is that he is knocking out or dominating these bigger top division contenders that makes people think they are shot. No doubt, Manny has improved so much from the last time he fought a prime Marquez at 130. Consider this: many are raving about Ortiz because of his close fight with Berto and is now being considered a top contender against Pacquiao. But Ortiz got beat by Maidana who in turn struggled against Erik Morales who in turn was blown out in 3 rounds by Pacquiao when he wasn't as good as he is now. People may think Manny's opposition are weak because of how they fared against him, but it can also mean that Manny is simply in a different league. Too bad, without Floyd fighting him, there is no one who can really give him a challenge and test his greatness, other than further going up the divisions where he might get beat primarily due to size difference instead of ability. We can only hypothesize how well he can match up with the ATGs in the different eras around the 140 to 147 divisions. IMHO, he can hold his own.

he's a great fighter he's an even better offensive specimen but he's just not the GOAT he isn't. he's not even the best to ever lace them up in any of the weight classes he's campaigned. i havn't heard any reputable expert argue for manny's supremacy in a single weight class. virtually all experts call sugar ray robinson was the best welterweight to ever live. footage of prime robinson doesn't exist, but the best of the best writers and experts (who see fighters from many generations, and often have tenures of many decades) say that he was the greatest ever. In his prime he had no flaws. He possessed every quality you could ever want in a fighter: atg speed, atg chin, atg two handed power, skills skills skills and experience, size and strength, heart, great engine, point getting / crowd pleasing style. to boot, he's considered by many (not me) to be the best MIDDLEWEIGHT of all time. is that even registering with the pacquiao fans? He's the best WW ever and one of the best MW's ever, and manny is nowhere near the best in any of the weight classes he's campaigned. if manny pacquiao existed in a climate where smaller, great fighters were commanding the most money (say at LW or jr WW) he'd have a chance to operate against guys his size, in weight classes where he belongs jumping to WW has forced manny to be choosy with his opponents he's a WW for the money, anyway, so why not make sound business decisions. in other words, matchmaking and weight jumping haven't neccessarily allowed us to find out how good manny could have been in terms of greatness, manny still has work to do to even earn a spot among the best to ever fight and in terms of who is the "best" fighter ever (accomplishments thrown out the window, we are talking about how good a fighter is a his weight class and how he will do head to head:) ray robinson's got that one on lock for the foreseeable future it seems

for my generation nope i still say Floyd is #1

anyway, this is a dumb thread.

BullSHlT! Hopkins was prime age wise. He wasn't boxing prime till his mid damn 30's, so let's not say Roy had to wait there between a fight between them was legit. And FOH. You're not green if before and after Roy you were doing nothing but winning. EXCUSES?! No you mofos are making excuses. Toney wasn't forced to fight at MW under penalty. If he couldn't make weight, that's entirely HIS fault. I personally don't accept it (like most fighter's excuses when they lose, notice just about every fighter has one when they lose too.. even down to Clottey's retarded mama's stew excuse). Manny's team is going into these fights trying to tip the scales in their favor (pun intended) before their opponent sets one foot in the ring. GOAT when your trainer is saying we picked this guy because 'he can't pull the trigger and won't have juice underweight', we picked this guy because 'after Floyd we saw he has no legs', etc. etc?! His own trainer unknowingly nicked his accomplishments and I'm supposed to take this 8 division champ **** seriously?! LMAO. ****, Manny ain't fought a good game skilled fighter since Marquez. Everybody disses Floyd, but at least he challenges himself and doesn't try to get a pre-fight advantage. Despite his knuckle headed rep - Judah 'in a styles clash' was considered a serious threat to beat him and gave Floyd one of his toughest fights to date, UNDEFEATED Hatton who had just shown he had a damn good chin at 147 beating Collazo, dealing with Urango, and shown WW power putting Castillo away with 1 punch. You would've thought Ricky was the favorite on this site. Then there's Oscar who he let have EVERY advantage including fighting him at 154 and the #2 WW Mosley, a fight Roach wouldn't take pre-Mayweather citing that he was 'too good'. Bullshlt man, we get a guy beating on left overs and fighters his team made sure to drain.. (not a guy showing up to his own fight not taking the initiative to be in shape) I'm talking team Pac's strategy of getting you under weight as a part of their fight plan. ****, Cotto is ****ing HUNGRY in the last 24/7 for you mofos don't think that weight drained **** doesn't have an effect. So, we got a guy starving himself some to get a fight wo penalty against that man. This is bullshet. Greatest ever? Top 5? Top 10-25? Yall are losing your minds. I might stick Manny in a top 50 right now. Until he fights another opponent in a styles clash or someone who isn't noticeably slower than he is.. I'm not impressed as much when you show you can beat non prime guys who you don't have to overcome much, if any adversity against. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

two years ago cotto, margarito, mosley and clottey were the top 4 ring ww ranking welters, manny by may will have defeated them all within 2 years greatest of all time

Pac is the greatest southpaw ever, and seemingly ambidextrous and its good reason to believe the greatest southpaw ever would be the greatest fighter ever (if they have sufficiently good names on the resume, which Pac has), as people cant deal with them. And southpaws train solely to beat Orthodox fighters. Its logical to think the best ever fighter would be a southpaw.

So are you saying Hopkins was in his prime at that time. Hopkins was a crude brawler when he first fought Roy. He was green as they come. If you gonna give excuses for weight drained fighter then you can't give praises for Roy beating Toney because Toney was also weight drain. BullSHlT! Hopkins was prime age wise. He wasn't boxing prime till his mid damn 30's, so let's not say Roy had to wait there between a fight between them was legit. And FOH. You're not green if before and after Roy you were doing nothing but winning. EXCUSES?! No you mofos are making excuses. Toney wasn't forced to fight at MW under penalty. If he couldn't make weight, that's entirely HIS fault. I personally don't accept it (like most fighter's excuses when they lose, notice just about every fighter has one when they lose too.. even down to Clottey's retarded mama's stew excuse). Manny's team is going into these fights trying to tip the scales in their favor (pun intended) before their opponent sets one foot in the ring. GOAT when your trainer is saying we picked this guy because 'he can't pull the trigger and won't have juice underweight', we picked this guy because 'after Floyd we saw he has no legs', etc. etc?! His own trainer unknowingly nicked his accomplishments and I'm supposed to take this 8 division champ **** seriously?! LMAO. ****, Manny ain't fought a good game skilled fighter since Marquez. Everybody disses Floyd, but at least he challenges himself and doesn't try to get a pre-fight advantage. Despite his knuckle headed rep - Judah 'in a styles clash' was considered a serious threat to beat him and gave Floyd one of his toughest fights to date, UNDEFEATED Hatton who had just shown he had a damn good chin at 147 beating Collazo, dealing with Urango, and shown WW power putting Castillo away with 1 punch. You would've thought Ricky was the favorite on this site. Then there's Oscar who he let have EVERY advantage including fighting him at 154 and the #2 WW Mosley, a fight Roach wouldn't take pre-Mayweather citing that he was 'too good'. Bullshlt man, we get a guy beating on left overs and fighters his team made sure to drain.. (not a guy showing up to his own fight not taking the initiative to be in shape) I'm talking team Pac's strategy of getting you under weight as a part of their fight plan. ****, Cotto is ****ing HUNGRY in the last 24/7 for you mofos don't think that weight drained **** doesn't have an effect. So, we got a guy starving himself some to get a fight wo penalty against that man. This is bullshet. Greatest ever? Top 5? Top 10-25? Yall are losing your minds. I might stick Manny in a top 50 right now. Until he fights another opponent in a styles clash or someone who isn't noticeably slower than he is.. I'm not impressed as much when you show you can beat non prime guys who you don't have to overcome much, if any adversity against.

He isn't in my eyes, but I don't think it's a stupid thing to think he is, he's certainly up there.

And, BTW the same goes for Floyd. You do know Floyd has had a career before the Oscar fight right? No he's not. Yes, he's top 3, at best #2. But, not the GOAT. More importantly than who is when, you dumb fuck] You want to know what Duran or SRL would do that version of Maragrito? You're acting like that was the same Marg of 2004. JUST STFU, that was a washed up Marg. That win means ****. Duran already beat way bigger and better guys than that version of Marg like Barkley and Castro. More importantly than who is when you dumb fuck. Duran win over a prime Leonard ****s on anything Pac has ever done. And, that was a smallish borderline past prime Duran. Duran wouldnt ever do to Margarito what Pac did. Margarito is way better than Barkley who lost in 2 rounds to Benn. Nobody has beat Margarito like Pac did or could. You will say SSM. Margarito underestimated SSM as he had just beat Cotto. He was coming off a hard fight with Cotto, so SSM got Margarito at the right time, will all the plaster effecting Marges mind as well. Just because SRL fought the wrong fight against Duran, and Duran beat SRL dont mean Duran has been more succesful. Thats like saying Kirkland laing beating Duran, or Randolph turpin beating SRR so they will go down as more succesful than Pac. Duran wouldnt ever do to Margarito what Pac did. Pac wouldnt get knocked out in2 rounds by hearns. The margarito that fought Pac was a man possessed and obsessed with beating Pac, his whole career rested on it. It would be safe to say that was the most in shape Margarito ever.

To the idiot trying to discredit RJJ and puts Pac above him on the ATG list.. - There's a difference between fighting a guy at a contracted weight who chooses not to come in the best shape for a fight (if you're accepting excuses). - and one who is contracted to fight below their normal weight with penalty stipulations. and lol @ BHOP being green. That's why he didn't lose another fight for over a decade after Roy right? You ppl ranking Pac as high as #5 all time need a lobotomy... you couldn't have been watching boxing long. And I'm talking like.. within the last year. He's being praised like this despite facing only 1 stylistic challenger and good prime opponent.. over his career. You guys are nuts. Pacman would've been stopped in the 90's and 80's at WW. Even a younger juiced version of Shane is scarier. Oscar was dangerous. The current squad is all B league minus Floyd, and I'd have a hard time putting HIM over any of the 80's stars. His defense would make a Leonard fight close maybe, but that's about the closest thing to a win I'd give him against those welters. So are you saying Hopkins was in his prime at that time. Hopkins was a crude brawler when he first fought Roy. He was green as they come. If you gonna give excuses for weight drained fighter then you can't give praises for Roy beating Toney because Toney was also weight drain.

To the idiot trying to discredit RJJ and puts Pac above him on the ATG list.. - There's a difference between fighting a guy at a contracted weight who chooses not to come in the best shape for a fight (if you're accepting excuses). - and one who is contracted to fight below their normal weight with penalty stipulations. and lol @ BHOP being green. That's why he didn't lose another fight for over a decade after Roy right? You ppl ranking Pac as high as #5 all time need a lobotomy... you couldn't have been watching boxing long. And I'm talking like.. within the last year. He's being praised like this despite facing only 1 stylistic challenger and good prime opponent.. over his career. You guys are nuts. Pacman would've been stopped in the 90's and 80's at WW. Even a younger juiced version of Shane is scarier. Oscar was dangerous. The current squad is all B league minus Floyd, and I'd have a hard time putting HIM over any of the 80's stars. His defense would make a Leonard fight close maybe, but that's about the closest thing to a win I'd give him against those welters.

Manny's the best of our time but not the greatest fighter ever imo.. but when he retires and decades past by I think his ATG status will be elevated and people would be talking about him like they talk about Leonard, Hagler, Duran, Hearns today. I sometimes wonder if they will. It's no coincidence that the names you mention are mostly from the US, if he retired now would the little Filipino (i.e. outsider) be remembered in the same way? I don't think he would, but perhaps in 2/3 years time he will have achieved so much more that it will be inevitable that his name will be brought up.

Greatest Ever? No Best of this generation? yes I would say in terms of his overall impact and big wins he is top ten top fifteen but the history of boxing is so deep that it is always going to be a raging debate, Thank God for that:boxing:

If Floyd has the balls to fight Manny. And Manny beats Floyd, I would rate Manny GOAT.

You don't count Pac's Cotto win as significant? He's not the greatest of all time but a few more wins and if he beats Mayweather then he is top 10 all time or as low as 5. IMO he is already around the #10 mark How can you compare Leonard who was a natural WW with Manny who came up from flyweight? The greatest indicator of his success are the amount of people discrediting him. I used to know a guy who back in the day was certain that Penny Hardaway was greater then Jordan. People like that will always be around. :biggthump TRUTH........................

From 01 to early 08 he was one of the better boxers in the sport, but greatest of all time, I don't think so. He's hasn't exactly been beating guys that Leonard, Robinson, Hagler, Hearns, Duran wouldn't wipe the floor with. Shane Mosley is the best fighter Pacquiao will fight since Marquez but it is too late though, Mosley is too old and as much as I hope this will be a good fight, I think Mosley showed what he had left against Mayweather and Mora, which was not much. You can't sit there and tell yourself, Leonard can't walk through Pacquiao's resume. You can't sit there and think Pacquiao would walk through Leonard's resume of Duran 2x, Hagler, and Hearns. You just can't. If Manny is the GOAT, then Leonard, Ali, and Robinson are gods. You don't count Pac's Cotto win as significant? He's not the greatest of all time but a few more wins and if he beats Mayweather then he is top 10 all time or as low as 5. IMO he is already around the #10 mark How can you compare Leonard who was a natural WW with Manny who came up from flyweight? The greatest indicator of his success are the amount of people discrediting him. I used to know a guy who back in the day was certain that Penny Hardaway was greater then Jordan. People like that will always be around.

Manny's the best of our time but not the greatest fighter ever imo.. but when he retires and decades past by I think his ATG status will be elevated and people would be talking about him like they talk about Leonard, Hagler, Duran, Hearns today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3y3kTPnopw&NR=1 Thoughts? Maybe the greatest fighter that Kellerman has ever seen live. Robinson would disagree though for sure...as would about 20 other boxers. I'll say that Pac is definitely one of the most exciting and brave fighters I have ever seen. Pac catches a lot of flak for Arum's decisions though...I'm sure Pac would take on whoever is in front of him. Old Bob knows how to make a buck and he knows how to negotiate but he thinks he can hold the boxing world hostage- he does far more harm than good.

Lmao... wow!