How great was sonny liston?

The ref stopped the fight and saved Vitalis career. It doesn't if he was ahead...At the end of the day he was stopped. He lost man. To say he didn't lose is just idiot. He was TKO'd. lol, he was on his feet imploring the doctor to let him keep fighting. Lewis dodged a bullet. And why do people always say Lewis was shot? This is the same guy who got ktfo by a couple of journeymen when he was "prime". Vitali dominated that fight and got robbed by an overzealous ***** doctor. Further proving my point is the way Lewis behaved directly after the fight in the interview with Merchant and then the way he retired rather than give the fans a rematch everyone wanted to see. He knew in his tinman heart that he couldn't beat Vitali.

He didn't lose to Lewis. The doctor saved Lewis, and Vitali was ahead on all cards at the time of the stoppage. Resume's play a small part in this process for me because you could find hole's in everyones resume because of the irrational way boxing is structured. It doesn't if he was ahead...At the end of the day he was stopped. He lost man. To say he didn't lose is just idiot. He was TKO'd.

He didn't lose to Lewis. The doctor saved Lewis, and Vitali was ahead on all cards at the time of the stoppage. Resume's play a small part in this process for me because you could find hole's in everyones resume because of the irrational way boxing is structured. The ref stopped the fight and saved Vitalis career.

Well H2H he could lose to a prime Lewis even though there is no need to really talk about because he lost to an old Lewis anyways. So that would make Lennox Lewis the GOAT I guess. No bro, when you rank all time rankings. You have to use resume and accomplishment. I mean Vitaly has fought in the same era as Wlad has. And, Wlad has a better overall resume and accomplishments than Vitaly does. So there is no excuses for Vitaly to have such a weak resume. He didn't lose to Lewis. The doctor saved Lewis, and Vitali was ahead on all cards at the time of the stoppage. Resume's play a small part in this process for me because you could find hole's in everyones resume because of the irrational way boxing is structured.

I don't just use the resume as a GOAT measuring stick cuz' a lot of guys that are real good fight in weak eras so its not fair to them to judge them by strictly who's around at the time. I judge Vitali by his performances and then extrapolate that into fights against anyone at any given time and my boxing calculator tells me that a prime Vitali Klitschko would be able to beat anyone of the top heavyweights in the history of the sport. Cuz' of his technique, his power, his size and his intelligence. There's no way to know for sure if he wins against everyone but the very worst he can be is 50/50 against anyone all time. And that's pretty damn good if you aks me. Well H2H he could lose to a prime Lewis even though there is no need to really talk about because he lost to an old Lewis anyways. So that would make Lennox Lewis the GOAT I guess. No bro, when you rank all time rankings. You have to use resume and accomplishment. I mean Vitaly has fought in the same era as Wlad has. And, Wlad has a better overall resume and accomplishments than Vitaly does. So there is no excuses for Vitaly to have such a weak resume.

Jack, if we could be serious for a second. Vitaly best wins are Corrie Sanders, Kirk Johnson, Samuel Peter, and Chris Arreola. Is that a GOAT type of resume? I don't just use the resume as a GOAT measuring stick cuz' a lot of guys that are real good fight in weak eras so its not fair to them to judge them by strictly who's around at the time. I judge Vitali by his performances and then extrapolate that into fights against anyone at any given time and my boxing calculator tells me that a prime Vitali Klitschko would be able to beat anyone of the top heavyweights in the history of the sport. Cuz' of his technique, his power, his size and his intelligence. There's no way to know for sure if he wins against everyone but the very worst he can be is 50/50 against anyone all time. And that's pretty damn good if you aks me.

Vitali is the greatest HW of all time. Jack, if we could be serious for a second. Vitaly best wins are Corrie Sanders, Kirk Johnson, Samuel Peter, and Chris Arreola. Is that a GOAT type of resume?

LarryX kills me sometimes....Not only does he think Liston is NOT great. But also thinks Vitaly is a top 10 ATG HW. Just goes to show how much boxing knowledge LarryX truly has. Vitali is the greatest HW of all time.

LarryX kills me sometimes....Not only does he think Liston is NOT great. But also thinks Vitaly is a top 10 ATG HW. Just goes to show how much boxing knowledge LarryX truly has.

Liston, great or not, did great things in boxing. Remember he fought in a time where the was one champion, not three so champs can fight who they want based on what style would make them look the best. Liston fought everybody and did so impressively.

I used to think Liston was a bigger version of Antwan Echols but after seeing his fight with Cleveland Williams I realize I wasn't giving him enough credit. He had a real strong stalking style that took out most weaklings and anyone who would slug with him, but he could be outboxed by the right fighter. I think he was too damn big and powerful for Frazier and too technically good for a young Foreman. I'd have Liston beating both by k.o.

beat me to it.............. Well your a damn fool too...but its okay that you don't know anything about Liston :fing02:

Maybe the question should be, how was he a great fighter? What did he show us when he returned from a loss? Did he do any better or worse? Did he prove his greatness when it came down to it? Is there a legitimate reason why he looked like crap after the last Patterson fight? Change of trainers? Anything? He was probably about 35 and Ali is the greatest HW of all-time and completely had his number. Do some research about what he did before the Patterson fights you damn fool. The 2nd Ali fight is very questionable and two fights at the end of your significant career doesn't some up your whole career, should we judge Tysons entire career on getting KTFO by Douglas? He proved his greatness by cleaning out his division and KOing a top 20 HW all time in the first round twice.

Maybe the question should be, how was he a great fighter? What did he show us when he returned from a loss? Did he do any better or worse? Did he prove his greatness when it came down to it? Is there a legitimate reason why he looked like crap after the last Patterson fight? Change of trainers? Anything? beat me to it..............

How was he not a great fighter? Maybe the question should be, how was he a great fighter? What did he show us when he returned from a loss? Did he do any better or worse? Did he prove his greatness when it came down to it? Is there a legitimate reason why he looked like crap after the last Patterson fight? Change of trainers? Anything?

sonny liston was a powerful fighter,not great,not great at all..he had a tragic past that most likely led to his death..his only major win was floyd patterson..who knows what he couldve been..sad How was he not a great fighter?

sonny liston was a powerful fighter,not great,not great at all..he had a tragic past that most likely led to his death..his only major win was floyd patterson..who knows what he couldve been..sad

History section please He was a very strong HW, extremely powerful with both hands. At one point he was knocking people out just with this jab. He started boxing late i'm pretty sure and only beat 1 good opponent, patterson, twice. Ali destroyed him the 1st fight, humilated him and he was never the same after that. God knows what happened in the 2nd, could be a fix or maybe ali just caught him that good. He died a sad, lonely and broke man. He never wanted to be potrayed as a criminal ( that was in his past ), he just wanted to gain acceptance. In his training camps he would always ask his few friends " you like me right? You care about me right?" Sonny Liston: A man

I made a rough top ten HW list awhile back and he was in it, he's in most respectable lists. He gets underrated by less knowledgable fans because they just see that he KO'ed Patterson twice and got upset by Ali but he was a damn good fighter and he did damn good work in a nice HW divison, he cleared it out clean before he became champ. He didn't do too much after losing to Ali fought in relative obscurity for about 5 years, got KO'ed by Leotis Martin though I think he was injured beforehand and was severely past prime, though he didn't end on a completely horrible note as he closed by beating a tough but limited contender in Chuck Wepner. Damn good fighter and if you read into his story its pretty sad, the man deserves respect for his legacy, very underrated fighter in terms of resume.