Manny Pacquiao THE GOAT or one of the GOAT?

Manny Pacquiao THE GOAT or one of the GOAT? * January 2nd, 2011 6:16 pm CT He has won 8 world titles in as many weight divisions. He's beaten legends, and future hall of fame fighters. He's has put the sport of boxing on his back and he's become a boxing household name. What else does Manny Pacquiao need to do in order to get the title of "greatest of all time?" There are a few names that merit the title of ONE of the greatest of all time, but who is THE greatest of all time. Some say that former heavyweight world champion Muhammad Ali is the greatest of all time. Is he though? When you look at the numbers it should be a no brainer for Manny Pacquiao. 8 world titles in 8 weight divisions is a very strong argument. Pacquiao has done more than just win titles. He's put an entire nation on his back and he's given the Philippines hope, and something to be very proud of. There hasn't been anyone in boxing since Mike Tyson that has come along and ignited the sport like Manny Pacquiao has. So why are some boxing experts reluctant to recognize him as the greatest fighter of all time? Great fighters have lived in different times. Perhaps that's the reason? Is it fair to call someone the greatest of all time when they were born in a different era than another potential GOAT fighter? Well maybe, but I know this much, Pacquiao is the greatest fighter of this era by far. Mississippians that I have spoken to about this have mixed feelings. I spoke with Justin Manning of Jackson, MS who happens to be a big Manny Pacquiao fan. Manning makes a strong argument for Pacquiao, "Nobody will ever come along and win 8 world titles in 8 weight divisions. Come on get real, Pacquiao is the greatest that ever lived, period!" I posed the same question to James Lindsey of Canton, Mississippi. Lindsey leans more toward the ONE of the greatest of all time title, "He's definitely one of the greatest, but it's tough to title him THE greatest when other great fighters have fought in different times." Lindsey goes on to say, " Pacquiao has definitely carved his way into the hall of fame, and will go down as one of the greatest that has ever lived." History will tell the story, and the boxing historians will debate it for years to come. Pacquiao has certainly made his mark, and depending on the person you talk to, he's either the greatest, or one of the greatest that has ever put the gloves on. http://www.examiner.com/fight-sports-in-jackson/manny-pacquiao-the-goat-or-one-of-the-goat

Comments (20)

Why bother? These people will clearly believe whatever Bob Arum/Top Rank/Team Pacquiao tell them. I guess it is easier than ya' know........actually thinking for yourself. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence can tell Pacquiao's entire career has been put under a cloud of speculation since he's denied random OST. Just like Barry Bonds. And rightfully so, I say! Manny Pacquiao: “I feel like I don’t need Mayweather to make my career. I fought the best and anyone willing to face me. I want it, and feel the fans deserve the Mayweather fight. I want to prove to everyone that it wasn’t me who didn’t want the fight. That’s why I made the concession to take anything he wants at any time. Even during the fight before the sixth round if he wanted! What else can I do? I hope we get the fight done soon. Let’s get it on.” http://beatsboxingmayhem.wordpress.com/2010/11/12/manny-pacquiao-politics-as-usual/ Didn't you understand my earlier post, Manny made the concession in the 2nd nego, it's just that Floyd walked away even before sitting down with team Manny at the nego table.. So if you want to see this signed by Manny, Floyd should sit down with him first!!!

15y ago

ALG_United

GOAT Worthy opponents? hmmmmm :poke: You're just a HATER kid, Sasakul was the lineal champion at flyweight at that time, Ledwaba was the man to beat at Bantamweight, and Barrera was on an 8 fight winning streak and was the lineal champion when he lost to Manny and then Barrera went on to win his next 6 fights before fighting Manny again. Clearly you don't know what your talking about, or maybe you just don't watch fights below the WW limit...

15y ago

hugh_grant

Simply the reason why Pac is the goat is because he is beating the heavier guys like they had never been beaten before. Cotto has fought so many WW but Pac demolished him like no one ever could. He beat Joshus Clottey like Clottey had never been beat before, and Cloetty. He flattened Hatton at 140 as well like hatton had never been beat. Consistency is what its called. At the highest weight Pac can potentially be expected to go, the best in the divisions should be competive with him, but they arent.

15y ago

ALG_United

So does he pray to a syringe loaded with EPO at night? :D I'm just kidding. Manny is a great ambassador for the sport of boxing. Just like Lance Armstrong is a great ambassador for the sport of cycling. But we won't go there. :D Manny Pacquiao: “I feel like I don’t need Mayweather to make my career. I fought the best and anyone willing to face me. I want it, and feel the fans deserve the Mayweather fight. I want to prove to everyone that it wasn’t me who didn’t want the fight. That’s why I made the concession to take anything he wants at any time. Even during the fight before the sixth round if he wanted! What else can I do? I hope we get the fight done soon. Let’s get it on.” http://beatsboxingmayhem.wordpress.com/2010/11/12/manny-pacquiao-politics-as-usual/

15y ago

IMDAZED

Manny Pacquiao: “I feel like I don’t need Mayweather to make my career. I fought the best and anyone willing to face me. I want it, and feel the fans deserve the Mayweather fight. I want to prove to everyone that it wasn’t me who didn’t want the fight. That’s why I made the concession to take anything he wants at any time. Even during the fight before the sixth round if he wanted! What else can I do? I hope we get the fight done soon. Let’s get it on.” http://beatsboxingmayhem.wordpress.com/2010/11/12/manny-pacquiao-politics-as-usual/ I can't take anyone seriously who quotes this. I'm going to create a website and have David Haye say that Wladimir personally called him and told him he didn't want to fight.

15y ago

ALG_United

Until he agrees to random OST, (against Floyd, or anyone else) he is HIGHLY suspect. Is Bary Bonds the greatest homerun hitter in all of baseball? Sure. Did he pass all of his drug tests? Indeed he did. Is he still suspect despite this? Yes. Same goes for Pacquiao. Show us your clean. Until then, there is a huge cloud of doubt over his career if you ask me. Manny Pacquiao: “I feel like I don’t need Mayweather to make my career. I fought the best and anyone willing to face me. I want it, and feel the fans deserve the Mayweather fight. I want to prove to everyone that it wasn’t me who didn’t want the fight. That’s why I made the concession to take anything he wants at any time. Even during the fight before the sixth round if he wanted! What else can I do? I hope we get the fight done soon. Let’s get it on.” http://beatsboxingmayhem.wordpress.com/2010/11/12/manny-pacquiao-politics-as-usual/

15y ago

straightleft

He didn't win titles in all of those fights. That's not how things were back then. You didn't just win titles every fight and grab some piece of junk at every turn. Titles were something that you rarely got a shot at and there was one per division in only eight divisions. They are the fighters he beat. Even the titlists fought constantly between their title fights. Why isn't he the GOAT you say? Because there are many like him. Like I said before, what Pac has done is not some amazing feat that's never been done before. There have been many, many fighters who have moved up in weight and divisions as much and more than Pac. It;s the titles that hasn't been done, but it means little when they are so easy to come across. There are now about six different titles you can get in boxing in more than twice as many divisions. Think about that for a minute. More than twice as many divisions all with about six or so titles available. Think of an Undisputed champion today and that's what nearly every normal titlist was in eras gone by. They had to wade through every contender and then fight for the title and keep it. Just to get a title shot and then win the title was the same as going through, for example, 5th rated Clottey, 4th Margarito, 3rd Mosley, 2nd Cotto, 1st Pac and then fighting Money Mai for the title. That was normal. It's why most old era fighters are held in much higher esteem. They fought and beat every single fighter in around, above and below their division. Just getting the title shot meant doing more than 95% of boxers do today across their whole career. You said you didn't know those old guys. Here's another quick one; Sam Langford beat legendary ATG Joe Gans at lightweight and would later be beating HOF heavyweight greats Joe Jeanette, Harry Wills along with other greats in between like Stanley Ketchell, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Sam McVea, Dixie Kid, Joe Walcott etc etc among many others. Lightweight to heavyweight beating HOFers. They didn't get the titles because the titles weren't there to get. That's a good read unlike some other here can't construct a good explanation other than discrediting the fighter who beat their fighter or overshadowing their fighter accomplishment by another fighter.

15y ago

BennyST

Wow that's impressive! 8 titles in 8 divisions. Why the hell they didn't put as GOAT? He didn't win titles in all of those fights. That's not how things were back then. You didn't just win titles every fight and grab some piece of junk at every turn. Titles were something that you rarely got a shot at and there was one per division in only eight divisions. They are the fighters he beat. Even the titlists fought constantly between their title fights. Why isn't he the GOAT you say? Because there are many like him. Like I said before, what Pac has done is not some amazing feat that's never been done before. There have been many, many fighters who have moved up in weight and divisions as much and more than Pac. It;s the titles that hasn't been done, but it means little when they are so easy to come across. There are now about six different titles you can get in boxing in more than twice as many divisions. Think about that for a minute. More than twice as many divisions all with about six or so titles available. Think of an Undisputed champion today and that's what nearly every normal titlist was in eras gone by. They had to wade through every contender and then fight for the title and keep it. Just to get a title shot and then win the title was the same as going through, for example, 5th rated Clottey, 4th Margarito, 3rd Mosley, 2nd Cotto, 1st Pac and then fighting Money Mai for the title. That was normal. It's why most old era fighters are held in much higher esteem. They fought and beat every single fighter in around, above and below their division. Just getting the title shot meant doing more than 95% of boxers do today across their whole career. You said you didn't know those old guys. Here's another quick one; Sam Langford beat legendary ATG Joe Gans at lightweight and would later be beating HOF heavyweight greats Joe Jeanette, Harry Wills along with other greats in between like Stanley Ketchell, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Sam McVea, Dixie Kid, Joe Walcott etc etc among many others. Lightweight to heavyweight beating HOFers. They didn't get the titles because the titles weren't there to get.

15y ago

IronDanHamza

I sincerely hope this thread isn't serious but to answer your question No, not even close.

15y ago

straightleft

check all of pacquiao's fight night weights. ****, even for the 154 belt, he weighed in at 144. hes a natural 140-144 lb fighter. i dont hate pacquiao, im just not brainwashed thinking he's god. dude has questionable fight advantages and isn't near being GOAT,get over it. Which fight you talking about he has the advantage? Oscar? Oscar last fight before he fought him was at 150. Pac last fight before Oscar was a lone fight at 135. Oscar moving 3 lbs below was a disadvantage but while Pac moving up 12 lbs from his last fight an advantage? Hatton? Pac last fight before Hatton was he fought Oscar at 147. He fought Hatton at his best weight where he is actually undefeated (Floyd beat him 147, Floyd best weight) moving down from 147 to 140. Is that Hatton disadvantage or Pacquiao advantage? Cotto? Cotto last fight he weighed in 146 against Clottey. Pac last fight against Hatton he weighed in 138? So Cotto moving down just a mere 1 lbs a disadvantage and Pac moving up 9 lbs an advantage? Margartio? Margarito's career he made at 147. Most of his defining fights are in welterweight. His last fight at 154 while Pac last fight as usual he just weighed below 147. We all know Marg came 17 lbs more than Pacquiao. You think that was also Margaritos disadvantage? You see, I don't think Pac is God. You are the one who makes believe other people we think he is.:frown:

15y ago

straightleft

Jimmy McLarnin HOFer Fidel Labarba at 112 HOFer Pancho Villa at 115 HOFer Memphis Moore at 118 HOFer Bud Taylor at 126 HOFer Luis Kaplan at 135 HOFer Sammy Mandell at 140 HOFer Billy Petrolle at 140 HOFer Lou Broulliard at 147 HOFer Young Corbett III at 147 HOFer Barney Ross at 140 and 147 HOFer Tony Canzoneri at 147 HOFer Lou Ambers at 147 HOFer Benny Leonard at 154 Wow that's impressive! 8 titles in 8 divisions. Why the hell they didn't put him as GOAT?

15y ago

BennyST

Sgar ray robinson is without a doubt the greatest of all time..he has more victories then pac has rounds and he competed at the top his entire career into his late fourties.. Pacman is a beast and one of the two best fighters of this era, what hes accomplished may never be done again..but in order to be in top ten ATG boxers, you have to fight and defeat someone whos style is.....BOXING..after that than hes in the debate. No, not really. You just have to beat more HOFers than he has or at least one prime ATG. ie. like Duran did over Ray Leonard among his many other HOF wins or like Ray Leonard did over Duran or Hearns etc. Barrera is still Pac's greatest win and a great one at that. The rest is good... very very good. Amazing in fact, but it is not close to being among the greatest of all time. The reason I put up McLarnin is that he, like Pac, went from 112 to 154. However, he beat legends, HOFers, ATGs, and top ten ATGs from 112 to 154. He's rarely in the top ten though. No offense but when you show the title stuff next to McLarnin's, Pac's is laughable to consider it either greater or the GOAT. Laughable. You then have guys the same as McLarnin who also went across many divisions and defeated much greater competition. He's great, but not the greatest. Not really close.

15y ago

BennyST

Sasakul (112) Lebwaba (122) Barrera (126) Morales (130) Diaz (135) Hatton (140) Cotto (147) Margarito (154) Jimmy McLarnin HOFer Fidel Labarba at 112 HOFer Pancho Villa at 115 HOFer Memphis Moore at 118 HOFer Bud Taylor at 126 HOFer Luis Kaplan at 135 HOFer Sammy Mandell at 140 HOFer Billy Petrolle at 140 HOFer Lou Broulliard at 147 HOFer Young Corbett III at 147 HOFer Barney Ross at 140 and 147 HOFer Tony Canzoneri at 147 HOFer Lou Ambers at 147 HOFer Benny Leonard at 154

15y ago

ronnie_N

pacquiao is in my all-time top 50 for 2 reasons (1. he went 5-1-1 with 3 first ballot hall of famers in barrera, morales, marquez ; 2. cry if you will, having another 8 division champ will take us another 100 or so years to have another one)... however, its not the time to finalize his place with the greats... hang those gloves first, then we'll see... the GOAT? absolutely not.... greatest southpaw? probably in top 10....

15y ago

chiguy91

WW? All Pacs fights at welterweight in above when the last time he weighed in 147? Other fighters skip a meals to make weight while Pac eats all he can but still can't make at 147. Why anybody here can't think the other way that Pac is just great and great people do amazing things while others cannot? Other than putting the pieces together they preferred doing others things just for the sake of hating. check all of pacquiao's fight night weights. ****, even for the 154 belt, he weighed in at 144. hes a natural 140-144 lb fighter. i dont hate pacquiao, im just not brainwashed thinking he's god. dude has questionable fight advantages and isn't near being GOAT,get over it.

15y ago

straightleft

15y ago

sweetscience18

15y ago

straightleft

he didnt even weigh in at the correct weight for the belt, let alone his own catchweight. what he means is pac grabs a belt and doesnt even defend it. fight martinez, Dzindziruk, or Bundrage. they have the other light middleweight belts,he likes fighting bigger guys doesnt he? like i said before,pac is great and all but not GOAT. then again, its just an opinion, so it will always be debatable. just leave the 'experts' opinions or claims out of it and have actual events/fights supporting your opinion, good discussion though. no i dont. why? because theyre different weight classes. like people bash JMM fighting floyd, of course he will get beat by a WW like pacman. but let them come down to his natural weight and see what happens. what im saying is some people who pac fought, his people set that **** up so he has a slight advantage, whether it be a big name that doesnt have it anymore, or a weight-drained fighter. im not saying all his fights arent legit. to me, his fights start getting questionable from DLH. marquez/barrera/morales/diaz, those were all great wins for him. from DLH on, is when people started talking about him having advantages, and oddly enough, the thought of him being GOAT starting blowing up too. lots of pacquiao bandwagoners emerged when pac beat DLH. i know youre not one, cause you know your stuff, but im just saying. WW? All Pacs fights at welterweight in above when the last time he weighed in 147? Other fighters skip a meals to make weight while Pac eats all he can but still can't make at 147. Why anybody here can't think the other way that Pac is just great and great people do amazing things while others cannot? Other than putting the pieces together they preferred doing others things just for the sake of hating.

15y ago

chiguy91

OMG! Pac is a 140 fighter the most. What he did at 147 and 154 whats makes him amazing. Now by fighting a 40 years old will erase anything he done in the past? OMG!:pat: he didnt even weigh in at the correct weight for the belt, let alone his own catchweight. what he means is pac grabs a belt and doesnt even defend it. fight martinez, Dzindziruk, or Bundrage. they have the other light middleweight belts,he likes fighting bigger guys doesnt he? like i said before,pac is great and all but not GOAT. then again, its just an opinion, so it will always be debatable. just leave the 'experts' opinions or claims out of it and have actual events/fights supporting your opinion, good discussion though. I did not said he is a GOAT. I said he has a case compared to others fighters in this era. You think HOF fighters like Barrera, Morales and JMM has a chance of beating Cotto, Clottey and Margarito in the state when they fought Pacquiao? no i dont. why? because theyre different weight classes. like people bash JMM fighting floyd, of course he will get beat by a WW like pacman. but let them come down to his natural weight and see what happens. what im saying is some people who pac fought, his people set that **** up so he has a slight advantage, whether it be a big name that doesnt have it anymore, or a weight-drained fighter. im not saying all his fights arent legit. to me, his fights start getting questionable from DLH. marquez/barrera/morales/diaz, those were all great wins for him. from DLH on, is when people started talking about him having advantages, and oddly enough, the thought of him being GOAT starting blowing up too. lots of pacquiao bandwagoners emerged when pac beat DLH. i know youre not one, cause you know your stuff, but im just saying.

15y ago

straightleft

WTF is this irrelevant nonsense you keep typing Barrera, Marquez and Morales are the same size with Pacquiao. Haters were saying Pac beat Cotto and Margarito so easy because they are shot and weight drained. Pac did it why you can't say they can do it as well?

15y ago