Why Pacman is an ATG

What other non fact crap.. There are more than 30 names, and more than 20 fights in that post.. Oscar ducking Winky when it was Winky who turned down Oscar, Hopkins-Tito comparison, Floyd-Oscar, just a lot of nonsense.

When did Tito turn down an Oscar rematch? And, other non fact crap you mentioned man. What other non fact crap.. There are more than 30 names, and more than 20 fights in that post..

Pacman is an ATG. Marquez is just better though

FOTD 3 time FOTY 4 linear titles excellent resume for a modern day fighter.

Of all the facts that were laid down in that post, the only thing you notice is the comparison on Hoya and Mosley. Geeezzz. When did Tito turn down an Oscar rematch? And, other non fact crap you mentioned man.

My version? My version of what? Why he is an ATG? Only fighter to win 7 divisional title(I don't count that Marg crap), Only fighter to win a flyweight and featherweight lineal championship. Only fighter to win 4 lineal championship has wins over a prime Barrera, JMM, faded EM, Hatton, still formable Cotto(Pac 9 division span from where he started mind you) Ledwaba, Oscar(hindsight is easy but nobody thought that going into the bout) Put all that together and they he won some fights equals ATG's. Of all the facts that were laid down in that post, the only thing you notice is the comparison on Hoya and Mosley. Geeezzz.

let me hear your version then. My version? My version of what? Why he is an ATG? Only fighter to win 7 divisional title(I don't count that Marg crap), Only fighter to win a flyweight and featherweight lineal championship. Only fighter to win 4 lineal championship has wins over a prime Barrera, JMM, faded EM, Hatton, still formable Cotto(Pac 9 division span from where he started mind you) Ledwaba, Oscar(hindsight is easy but nobody thought that going into the bout) Put all that together and they he won some fights equals ATG's.

yea he is a real ATG....2 losses to a bum....loss to a downwards spiraling erik morales and 2 losses to marquez(anyone who watched the fights knows i was either 2 losses or at best a loss and a draw) trolling are we??

yea he is a real ATG....2 losses to a bum....loss to a downwards spiraling erik morales and 2 losses to marquez(anyone who watched the fights knows i was either 2 losses or at best a loss and a draw) :nonono: :pat:

I think Pac is an ATG, I think out of all the active fighters he is the greatest. But, this was just a bad post overall... Your first paragraph has wholes in him. And, then you try to compare him to Oscar and Shane and neither are ATG IMO. So why make that comparison? It was just a bad post overall. let me hear your version then.

yea he is a real ATG....2 losses to a bum....loss to a downwards spiraling erik morales and 2 losses to marquez(anyone who watched the fights knows i was either 2 losses or at best a loss and a draw)

Great post from DanishB from the other side.. Even Julio Cesar Chavez declined a rematch with Pernell Whitaker, the same with Tito Trinidad to Oscar De La Hoya, Bernard “B-hop” Hopkins to Trinidad, Floyd Mayweather to Oscar, Sugar Ray Leonard to Marvin Hagler, Muhammad Ali to George Foreman, Joe Calzaghe to B-hop and so on… Oscar avoided Antonio Margarito, Vernon Forrest and Winky Wright. Floyd Mayweather rejected an $8 million fight with Margarito and even against Miguel Cotto both of which Pacquiao annihilated. We know that Marquez gave Pacquiao a hard time but don’t you forget that Pacquiao should have been awarded the title in their first bout because the judge who scored it a draw admitted afterward that he made a mistake. And Marquez was the one to turn down an immediate rematch with Pacquiao, not the other way around as many people believed. A prime Marquez instead fought and was defeated by Chris John in Indonesia. Even “The Greatest” Muhammad Ali had a hard time with Ken Norton in their 2 fights, which many believed the latter had won both times. Does that make Norton the greatest? Of course not. What’s wrong with Pacquiao’s winning a vacant title? Even the Mexican legends won at least one vacant title in their careers like Marquez defeated Manuel Medina for the vacant IBF Feather title, Marco Antonio Barrera defeated Richie Wenton for the vacant WBO Super-bantam title then defeated Luiz Freitas for the vacant WBA Super-bantam title, Erik Morales defeated Paulie Ayala for WBC’s vacant Feather title, Oscar De La Hoya defeated Jorge Paez for the vacant WBO Lightweight title then defeated Derrell Coley for the vacant IBA Welter title, Julio Cesar Chávez won his first championship against Mario Martinez for the vacant WBC Super-feather title and how many more greats fought for a vacant title? Even Chavez, Roy Jones Jr and B-hop fought for and won a vacant title as their first. What’s wrong with Manny Pacquiao’s title wins with a catch-weight? Of all Pacman’s fights, only 2 have been catch-weights. The title fights vs Cotto at 145 for the 147 title and vs Margarito at 150 for the 154 title. Oscar asked Pacman to jump 2 divisions to fight him in their non-title Welterweight bout the same way Floyd asked Marquez in their non-title Welter bout. There should be no problem with catch-weight if both parties agreed. So what’s the fuss with Pacquiao? Paul Williams asked a catch-weight of 158 and yet got KOd by Sergio Martinez for the 160 title. Even the great Sugar Ray Leonard did it twice, defeating Donny Lalonde at 168 for the 168 & 175 titles and defeating Thomas Hearns at 164 for the 168 title, the middleweight title rematch of Jermain Taylor vs Kelly Pavlik was fought at 166, Trinidad-Jones at 171 for the 175 non-title bout and Oscar vs B-hop at 158 for the 160 title where many thought Oscar was too small for the middleweight class. If that’s the case for a 5ft9in Oscar, how much more for a smaller man like Pacquiao against middleweights Sergio Martinez or Paul Williams? Do these catch-weights affect Leonard’s or Floyd’s or Oscar’s greatness? NO. So it shouldn’t affect Pacquiao’s greatness. Many boxers are willing to fight in catch-weights to fight the best, for big money so don’t just blame Manny Pacquiao for it. Pacquiao won’t fight Martinez or Paul Williams? Oscar himself, a 5 foot 9 natural welterweight, realized after his defeat from B-hop that he’s too small to be a middleweight and even Shane Mosley, a natural welter, won’t dare venture to middleweight because of the same belief. So why Pacquiao, a natural super-lightweight, is a lesser fighter if he opted not to fight any middleweights or if he fight with a catch-weight? Even Martinez himself thought Pacquiao is too small for him. When Pacquiao fights Andre Berto and if he wins, will you say “Berto didn’t have enough experience to compete with Pacquiao.”? Or when he fights Floyd Mayweather and if he dominates him, will you say “Floyd has been inactive for too long.”? Or when he fights Marquez and if he beats him, will you say “144 was too heavy for Marquez”? All of this has been an afterthought. Since the first Barrera fight up to now, many people picked the other guy one way or the other because of their size advantage against Pacquiao and ending up disappointed many times over, including you (the doubters). And then the excuses come in. How many fighters have you seen fight bigger current or former champions even with or without a catch-weight and beat them up in such a fashion? And how many fighters have you seen show mercy to his beaten opponent the way Pacquiao did against Margarito? I really want Pacquiao to fight Floyd or Berto to get his 5th Lineal title as Ring’s Welterweight Champion in a box-off between no1 vs no2 or no1 vs no3 fighters of the division. Or a third fight with the “WHINER” Juan Manuel Marquez. It’s true that Pacman’s era is not yet over not because Pacman, Floyd and Martinez haven’t fought yet but because Pacman’s still fighting. Nonetheless, Pacquiao’s legacy is sealed. For all of Pacman’s success and all the multi-division titlists in history, it’s not unusual. Maybe it’s unusual because Pacquiao is Asian and not African American. I think Pac is an ATG, I think out of all the active fighters he is the greatest. But, this was just a bad post overall... Your first paragraph has wholes in him. And, then you try to compare him to Oscar and Shane and neither are ATG IMO. So why make that comparison? It was just a bad post overall.

bump :boxing:

Nice post, but what is it you are even crying about? I don't discredit Pac's accomplishments however I do believe his fights are more cherry picked than most. He also said he would fight anyone. Make the stretch to meet weight then, catch or not. Marquez wants him, Mara wants him, so make the agreements and make it happen. I think Mara can beat Pac. Floyd as well. JMM, we will see. So catch weight fights and earning vacant titles is a history in the sport, as well as ducking opponents. Big deal whats your point? I think Pac is an amazing fighter that brings an unorthodox style to the table as did Ali. I don't however throw out ignorant foolishness like saying he will KO Money etc etc. I want Floyd to lose his undefeated record but I don't see Pac as the one to do it. Bottom line he is a champion, a leader, at the top of his game and the big name for promoters, adversaries, and contributing to keeping boxing alive as a sport. Recognition, there it is. What else do you want? in another language? Whats the big deal do not enough people kiss his ass these days? For the record I am neither Flomo nor Pactard I enjoy watching all boxers and don't have a favorite so my 2 cents is unbiased.

Truly the Greatest!! As Ive been telling you for the longest time!!

AND.. the Sugar Ray Leonard-Hagler fight was at catchweight, Henry Armstrong fought at catchweight at middleweight.

Fighting for a title at a catchweight for a vacant title (which is suppose to be a record breaker) against a bum that even if he beat u, he didn't deserve the title, is certainly worth criticism. The biggest criticism he gets is becuz of his fans. They wanna take Pac's asterisk wins over Margarito, a catchweight win over Cotto, eating a reluctant Clottey as being proof of his greatness. They wanna put him in the top 5 p4p in history becuz of that. People look at those references and say he would beat Duran, or Leonard, or even Robinson. That stuff requires criticism, if only to bring the fans back down to Earth. Like u said, his place in history is set. And as long as u keep him where he belongs (as of now) there'd be no need to criticize the flaws in his career. Basically whats going on when people criticize the things like catchweights, and not fighting Martinez, and all that stuff, is people r saying "If u want to put Pacquiao up here, this is what he needs to do, or what he needs to stop doing to prove he belongs there." No harm in that I say

Pac=ATG because there's never ever been another boxer who as an adult could gain 20 pounds of solid muscle and improve his speed and stamina at the same time.:wtf1:

great post! Green K !

in summation pacquiao is the greatest of all time in pactardese.