If Tony beats Pac, will it damage his standing a top 5 ATG?

well good job taking the easy way out with ray robinson. frankly speaking, i think ray robinson is the G.O.A.T, what im saying is the propensity for old timers to marginalize modern greats & showing bias towards old fighters & making them seem untouchable. the old guard who likes to pretend they are the gatekeepers to all time great rankings need to grade modern fighters accordingly to their era. No modern great is gonna be fighting 10x in one month like they did in the old days, just like no old school fighter has to deal with the 24 rehydration rule that this era deals with. Some are better than others. Many including myself have trashed Bert Sugar as one of those guys. He has WAY TOO MANY old guys high on the list. While a guy like Pernell Whitaker is like #47, with many of us feeling he belongs atleast top 25. Guys like Sugar also were bias toward Asian fighters. His last top 100 list didn't include guys like Harada or Galaxy. Only Pancho Villa made his top 100.

Now, HaglerGlassChin is trying to give me words of advice, instructing me to embark upon a personal-reflection, and think about my life. That's rich, coming from a joker who just insulted my mother during the middle of a discussion about Harry Greb's greatness on an internet boxing forum. Therein lies your failure. :dunce: You are not wise enough to realise it, mate. You are not able to hang with me in any discussion, whether it be political, socio-economical, religious or boxing. You are an abject failure. I seem to have personal issues because I claimed HaglerGlassChin 'failed' in a discussion about boxing, yet he is the same person who stooped low enough to insult my mother. Hypocrisy or idiocy - it's one or the other. As for your recommendation on making a poll in the history section just to see who people believe, won, is just a case of someone who takes this 'way too seriously'. Toodles, dunce. :wave: You are the one claiming victory on the site, so i am asking you how did you gain this victory? Is it self-proclaimed? Did you take a poll or did you just toot your own horn when your logical flaws are exposed. You use the words cunt and scumbag, when you take the stuff to the gutter than expect it back your way. I never used profanites at you first, go check your messages. I already been Greek K three times on this thread, so i hardly think that nobody else agrees with what i said.

Pac's not in the top 5 lol, so I guess he won't be any closer.

sometimes boxing atg comparisons resemble politics. ask a hundred democrats who's the better president bush or clinton. then ask the same number of republicans the same question. compare answers then proceed to scratch your head.

Manny has won 7 division titles, fighter of the decade, 3x fighter of the year, 4 lineal champ. if any of you guys think he is not atleast a top 20 ATG's you probably a hater or jealous of what an Asian guy has done in boxing. if 7 division title was so easy why no one ever done it? and fighter of the decade was awarded once every 10 years. you have to make a case to discredit him. not the usual argument that he could not beat this old school boxer, williams would kill him or mayweather would school him bullsheet! boxing resume should be done in the boxing ring like Manny has been doing. He has accomplished great things, but not everybody will rate him a top 5 fighter, but you need to look at the whole picture. There are 17 divisions with 4 champs on each division, that means there are possibly 68 champs in the sport, in the past there were only 8 divisions with one true champ on each division. Also if you count minor titles, than a guy like Camacho has won in 7 divisions. Do you want to count only the WBC, IBF,WBA, and WBO? OR do we count also the Ring Belt and IBO Belts?

You sent me red k first, and I was merely returning the favour. Seems like someone is a little butt-hurt. Get over it, it's only red k, sook. :bottle: I've had several previous discussions about this issue before, in the history section as well. I judge greatness by a number of criteria, one of them being boxing skills, which cannot be truly measured without fight-footage. Greb has one of the finest, if not, the finest resume I have ever seen and a fighter who was able to give Tunney the only loss of his career must've been truly great. Hurling invective such as "cunt" or "dickhead" is one thing but to stoop as low to involve family members is classless. Shame on you. No need to be a smartass, too. You have exposed your true colours and this shall be held against you in future discussions. You have displayed a lack of ability to dissect an argument and you completely failed in this thread. Once again, you lose. :bottle: What have i lost??? Just wondering? Put this debate over the history section and put a poll on it or do you make your own evaluations. THis is just a boxing forum in an internet site, with an open discussion. Failure is a word you seem to throw alot, perhaps that is a word that personofies your personal life. I am sorry mate that you need to resort to throwing these fake moral victories about you lose and failed or whatever. Seems you have some serious issues that you are reduced to calling people a failure and loser, perhaps you need to take a good look in the mirror and judge your own life and see where it is going?

You think Sugar Ray Robinson of 50 years ago stands a chance against modern WW champions and MW champions recently? Do you think former WBA HW champion Bruce Seldon or even the Klitschkos beat a Foreman of 1970 or even the Ali who danced circles around Cleveland Williams? Does impact and influence have importance in determining greatness? Do you go by resume or techinical skill? Many people have said the Beatles suck because they only played often only 3 chords, does that mean that Rush is better than the Beatles since their technically leaps and bounds superior to them. Or are the Beatles rated high due to their influence and song writing oppose to their skill? Greatness is subjective. Ranking fighters from different eras needs a complete analysis, not just simply the monolothic approach he would beat him so that means he is greater. Using your theory Sandy Saddler is superior to Willie Pep, he beat him three out of 4 times, yet WTF ranks Saddler higher than Pep? there's really no way to resolve boxing atg comparisons. there just isn't.

, All the great players from every sport across the board, have come from recent times. You think Sugar Ray Robinson of 50 years ago stands a chance against modern WW champions and MW champions recently? Do you think former WBA HW champion Bruce Seldon or even the Klitschkos beat a Foreman of 1970 or even the Ali who danced circles around Cleveland Williams? Does impact and influence have importance in determining greatness? Do you go by resume or techinical skill? Many people have said the Beatles suck because they only played often only 3 chords, does that mean that Rush is better than the Beatles since their technically leaps and bounds superior to them. Or are the Beatles rated high due to their influence and song writing oppose to their skill? Greatness is subjective. Ranking fighters from different eras needs a complete analysis, not just simply the monolothic approach he would beat him so that means he is greater. Using your theory Sandy Saddler is superior to Willie Pep, he beat him three out of 4 times, yet WTF ranks Saddler higher than Pep?

because the people making the list are all from the old guard hence they want to preserve their history. They dont want anybody forgetting about their sporting heroes. Just the other day, i had a argument with dave rado about jesse owens vs usain bolt, i said take prime bold & take prime jesse owens, put them in a track, & who wins? rado tries to say well if jesse had usain's training & modern method he would win, well he doesnt. that's what we are arguing here. You cant have it both ways. that's why the people arguing for modern athletes, they have the knowledge & resources that the old timers did. old guard wants to have it both ways. Athletic Evolution. 70s & up athletes are superior to athletes before them. how could one argue jesse over usain? it's simple. just compare times and you got your answer. whether 1 guy had better training and nutrition or not shouldn't be debated.

You sent me red k first, and I was merely returning the favour. Seems like someone is a little butt-hurt. Get over it, it's only red k, sook. :bottle: I've had several previous discussion about this issue before, in the history section as well. I judge greatness by many criteria, one of them being boxing skills, which cannot be truly measured without fight-footage. Greb has one of the finest, if not, the finest resumes I have ever seen and a fighter who was able to give Tunney the only loss of his career must've been truly great. Hurling invective such as "cunt" or "dickhead" is one thing but to stoop as low to involve family members is classless. Shame on you. No need to be a smartass, too. You have exposed your true colours and this shall be held against you in future discussions. You have displayed a lack of ability to dissect an argument and you completely failed in this thread. Once again, you lose. :bottle: Stony, are you MIB's little brother?

leave the atg rankings to the experts and stick to what you can do best...internet gangstah.

screw all that ATG talk this is just a special treat for the fans we will enjoy a great fight, worry about history later

Is this HaglerGlassChin joker actually implying that Alexander The Great's army would stand a chance vs Saddam's modern weaponry? :lol1: What a fool. I pose it the other way around, do you think Saddam Hussien who got knocked out in 30 days by the US Military during Desert Storm a greater leader than Alexander the Great? How do you define greatness?

no, that means prime roger federer, prime sampras, prime agassi would fukking murk rod laver & his short short wearing greats of his days. Every sport evolves. All the great players from every sport across the board, have come from recent times. Yet, boxing always seems unaffected by this. Usain Bolt would run laps around jesse owens. shaq & hakeem would destroy wilt & russell, payton manning & tom brady are much greater & much more advanced quarterbacks than say johnny unitas & bart starr. Its called athletic evolution. Every sport has evolved, including boxing. Rank accordingly. you make great points but ppl will still debate you on merits regardless of how obvious your case is. only the bold part won't be disputed since by comparing times, you know for a fact that usain murks jesse.

Compare it to world records...They keep getting broken because we get stronger, faster, smarter, better.

You are lost, fuck-face. I just said his resume and record are not in dispute. So what is this pointless nonsense you are harping on about? All of which I know, you show-off. Don't pretend to exercise your fake knowledge on me, cause I guarantee I have read more than you ever will. I have seen Tunney fight and he is one of my all time favs. Tremendous scientific boxer. I am simply implying that Greb's true greatness & potential may never be realised without actual fight footage. Dunce. Shows what a classless prick you are. What does my mum have to do with this? You low-life scumbag. You got owned, son. :dunce: LOL you still harping over the Red K over your ignorance on the Lopez fight. I never go into profanities or insults unless thrown at me, you threw the C word, that is not discussion but insults. To call me out for name calling, is like the pot calling the kettle black. THere is nothing here about owning, put this up at any discussion board and see how the argument holds up? That whole Harry Greb is overrated or we never saw his film was already beaten to a dead horse over in the history section, do a search function. People can respect opinions without inflamattory stuff. I do apologize about the mum incident. If you like incess and doing role reversal with your mum that is your problem.

Manny has won 7 division titles, fighter of the decade, 3x fighter of the year, 4 lineal champ. if any of you guys think he is not atleast a top 20 ATG's you probably a hater or jealous of what an Asian guy has done in boxing. if 7 division title was so easy why no one ever done it? and fighter of the decade was awarded once every 10 years. you have to make a case to discredit him. not the usual argument that he could not beat this old school boxer, williams would kill him or mayweather would school him bullsheet! boxing resume should be done in the boxing ring like Manny has been doing.

of course they are good points. its common sense. babe ruth DID NOT PLAY AGAINST black guys, latinos, & asians. He played in the dead ball era. You think babe ruth could make a major league team today with his obese physique? You think jim thorpe or bart starr could compete in the nfl? How about bill russell? How do you think bill russell, a 6 foot 8, 240 lb center would do against dwight howard or the laker frontline? Ive seen footage of henry armstrong, looks like a rich man's version of david/juan diaz. Its all about preserving history. that's why sports like golf, swimming and track and field have the upper hand compared to sports you've mentioned in terms of historical comparison since results could be directly matched up against each other. most golf courses stayed the same, olympic sized sized pools are still that and as far as i know, 10 sec from 50 yrs ago is still 10 sec today.

alexander the great (circa 320 bc) vs Prime Iraq Republican Guard (1992), who takes it? ill go with Saddam via unanimous decision. So that means a current #100 ranked tennis player is better than Rod Laver because he is serves faster and has a stronger backhand? THat is very flawed reasoning, so you will regard a modern contender who never won a title higher than a past champion, is that you judge greatness?

You sound stupid you silly twat. This is boxing and not warfare. You even said yourself that a fighters greatness is judged by many criteria, including skills - which we cannot accurately judge without fight footage. :owned: Fucking dumb cunt. Swallow that tongue of yours. LOL, you throw that in as kiddy NSB Stuff. Have you seen Gene Tunney fight??? We do know that Greb was blind in one eye when he beat Tunney while Tunney was undefeated. Greb is highly ranked BY ALL boxing historians, its common sense as 2 + 2. I said it as one criteria, but we have seen who they did beat and what their overall impact and accomplishments are in the sport. BTW, the only thing owned was your mom we you did her.