two questions on B-Hop's all time standing...

Hopkins is a great, in my view. If he beats Pascal, that would be very impressive, if he fights on to fifty and keeps winning, wow, that would be an amazing achievement! I think he should probably call it a career if he wins the next fight, and go out with a win over highly regarded opponent. Fighting once or sometimes twice a year is not in his favor at this age.

Not sure where I'd place him, top 50 most probably but I'll wait until his career is over before really putting thought into it. I wonder if he'll ever retire, I could see him coming to the ring with a Zimmer frame and still ruining up and comers Are you f#cked? Douglous was down for over 10 seconds. Cant you count. I know its all-time. Roid Jones fans are the ones who brought him up in the discussion. Just like you randomly brought up Tyson.

1.) If B-Hop beats Pascal, then Dawson would that move him into the top 10 fighters or all time? 2.) If B-Hop faught until he was 50, beating top young talent, where would he rank all time then? You see top 10 is a tough bracket. If B-Hop beats Pascal he would definitely be in the top 50 of my personal standings and probably many others. Boxing has been around for so long its really hard to have really anyone in the top 10 of boxing history.

Care to take a look at his career? How no one defeated him at 147? How he couldn't hurt Jones, Hopkins or Winky? Like his power was magically drained by the Keebler cookie making elves? Yeah he fought well against William "Duran Killer" Joppy. Trinidad's victory against Joppy shouldn't be used to rate Trinidad as an elite fighter upwards 147, but as proof that Joppy was a better than average, good fighter, certainly not elite at all, at ANY time during his career. Now Tito @ 147 was a god. You really want to get into a Tito debate with me? Maybe you should keep reading my posts throughout this thread. Yes, he was at his best at 147. But, a 154 at his time he was the best in that weight-class. Nobody had done that to Joppy prior. NOBODY. Name me another MW in 2001 besides Hopkins that you fell would of beaten Tito? Hell there was nobody from 160 on down who I said had any chance against Tito besides Hopkins and Winky obviously. If you think somebody else did. Then tell me who. So don't tell me Tito didn't belong at 160. It is kind of hard for you power to be in effect when you can't land it flush consistently. He lost to winky who had one of the best defense of his era and Hopkins who also had one of the best defense and was a crafty mofo to boot. Also fought the perfect gameplan, who overall was just a better fighter. Roy Jones? I mean yes Roy Jones was shot. But, so was Tito and fighting at 170 after a long layoff. Either that is LHW not MW which I clearly asked how didn't he have any business at MW? He had no business chasing a prime Roy Jones in 2001. Yes that I would agree but the way he destroyed Joppy in that manner which no other fighter had ever done before. And, consider Joppy was the 2nd best MW at that time. Also considering that there only 2 fighters from MW down who you can say could beat Tito. Then I still need an explanation on how he had no business? Because, he was undefeated at 140? :pat:

"The GREATNESS of Joppy"

Wait Tito beats arguably the 2nd best MW at the time. And, matter of fact not only beats him but destroys him. Yet Tito had no business at middleweight? How so? Care to take a look at his career? How no one defeated him at 147? How he couldn't hurt Jones, Hopkins or Winky? Like his power was magically drained by the Keebler cookie making elves? Yeah he fought well against William "Duran Killer" Joppy. Trinidad's victory against Joppy shouldn't be used to rate Trinidad as an elite fighter upwards 147, but as proof that Joppy was a better than average, good fighter, certainly not elite at all, at ANY time during his career. Now Tito @ 147 was a god.

Are you f#cked? Douglous was down for over 10 seconds. Cant you count. I know its all-time. Roid Jones fans are the ones who brought him up in the discussion. Just like you randomly brought up Tyson. Tyson was also given a long count as well, the ref both times started the count at 1 rather than picking up from the time keeper

that's you though, hopkins #1 hater. To the boxing historians, whether you like it or not, hopkins will (and is already) considered an all time great fighter. yeah but the experts, commentators, etc. point out that everybody had to move up to fight him...so that atg has an asterisk (*)...too many question marks with hopkins

Are you f#cked? Douglous was down for over 10 seconds. Cant you count. I know its all-time. Roid Jones fans are the ones who brought him up in the discussion. Just like you randomly brought up Tyson. The count never reach 10. How do you count? You right I did bring up Tyson. I just remembered all the lame garbage ass excuses you used to rank Tyson over greater fighters in Holmes, Holyfield, and Lewis. And, it seems like you doing the same thing with Hopkins and Jones. It just tripped me out cuz you not being consistent with your criticism. You **** one side accomplishments and yet give every single excuse even ones that are just completely made up to the other side.

20 years from now bring up the name Roy Jones and Hopkins named will instantly be mentioned and vice versa. i don't know man...you mention hopkins to me and the words that immediately pop up in my mind are sleep, insomnia, and comatose

Tyson was not KTFO by Douglous. He actually KOed Douglous but the ref gave him extra time to recover. Watch the fight then you would know this. No he didn't recieve extra time. Maybe you should watch the fight and not the movie. Douglas KO'd a prime Mike Tyson. Get over it. Tito got f#cked up end of story, get over it. He sure did. But, if Tyson wasn't prime sure as hell Tito wasn't prime So right now whos better Hopkins or RJJ? How did you score the rematch then if you think RJJs better. So your thinking is about right now not all time? Son, the debate is about all time not right now.

how could he move to your top 10? He'd have to beat Pascal, Dawson, Bute, the Super 6 winner then move up to cruiserweight and win a title there. If he does that then I could consider ranking him in my top 10.

Hopkins & Jones fans should live in harmony, they are both two of the best of their eras, each accomplished something the other didn't and each had their own unique, but equally as great legacy. Hopkins losing to Jones in '93 is no knock on hopkins, as a young Roy Jones was damn near unbeatable. If anything, instead of criticizing hopkins for the loss he should be praised as giving a young Jones a good tough competitive fight which isn't something most people could say back then, including James Toney. Further, that fight helped make hopkins become the great fighter he was, as he learned a great deal from that, as I'm sure Jones did too. The rivalry between the two lasted for years, but as their careers are both almost to an end, it's time to reflect on their amazing careers and respect each of them as they will forever be linked. 20 years from now bring up the name Roy Jones and Hopkins named will instantly be mentioned and vice versa. Great post. Roy is my favorite but Hopkins is my second favorite.

1) No. 2) That would secure his position as a top 30 ATG. how could he move to your top 10?

Tyson was past prime after the spinks fight. He actually KOed Douglous but the ref gave buster a long count which saved him. aw man this is good stuff right here...let me go get my popcorn

Hopkins beat RJJ quite clearly. If you still think RJJ is the better fighter then thats your problem. I just dont see how anyone could of scored the rematch for RJJ. No knowledgeable fan who understood the situation at the time of both fighters. Takes that fight into account.

1) No. 2) That would secure his position as a top 30 ATG.

Tyson was past prime after the spinks fight. He actually KOed Douglous but the ref gave buster a long count which saved him. Holmes got a gift decison against 2 and was lucky to survive Shavers. Tito got f#cked up by Hopkins get over it man. Why are Holmes, lewis and Holyfield better than Tyson? Jones better than Hopkins. Is it because you dislike Hopkins and Tyson as they are muslim ? Yes that is the reason why. Damn you got me. Anyways can we be serious for a second. Tyson was still in his prime after Spinks. He was in his prime when he got KTFO by Douglas who was a journeyman/lower tier contender. And, yes Tito got stopped by Hopkins. But, I am going to use your lame ass excuse and say Tito wasn't in his prime. His prime weight and the weight where he was at his best at was WW. :nana:

B-hop If B-Hop beats Pascal, then Dawson would that move him into the top 10 fighters or all time? no because his losses to jones, taylor, and calzaghe far outweigh a win against pascal and dawson. 2.) If B-Hop faught until he was 50, beating top young talent, where would he rank all time then? top 200 depends on who it is he's fighting...if he's beating up middleweights, it doesn't show up on the radar That is an excellent question, personally, I am a fan of Bernard Hopkins, however, I do believe that he avoided Dawson before the Pascal fight. In my opinion of the matter, I think he (B-HOP) was downgraded for taking the fight with Pascal. I firmly believe that he took the lesser road in the situation, now i'm sure there are many circumstances that are considered when the decision was made to fight Pascal over Dawson, but if you are talking about an "ATG", I have to considered the idea of taken all-comers regardless of monetary benefit. In my opinion Dawson deservedly had a shot against B-HOP. B-HOP did not bite. So if he fights Dawson AFTER the fact I think it's one fight too late. It would've meant more before Pascal. I guess to answer your question (complex), I guess he would be considered an ATG with his resume currently minus Pascal and Dawson. However a Dawson fight before Pascal would have been "IT" for me. For me? Maybe it's more of a testament that Dawson was calling out people like Calzaghe,Jones, and Hopkins when he (Dawson) was coming up.

Hopkins won clearly. But how serious can you take a fight between two fighters over 40?