Here's is Doug Fischer's lengthy post defending Antonio Margarito in his recent mailbag
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/586/fischerh.jpg
Regarding Margarito, I have no problem telling you or anyone else that he didn’t know what was in his gloves before the Mosley fight. You know why? Because he never had his gloves on with the loaded hand wraps. In fact, he barely had his hand wraps on for five minute before Naazim Richardson demanded that Javier Capetillo unwrap Margarito’s hands.
Margarito didn’t have time to even stand up and make a fist before those old bloody wraps that had the plaster-like remnants in them were confiscated by the California State Athletic Commission. He didn’t have the chance to punch his own wrapped hands with the loaded gauze inserts, let alone hit mitts with his gloves over the doctored wraps. So how the heck was he supposed to know what was going on?
I’m more familiar with Margarito than most (if not all) of the boxing writers who condemn him. I’ve been around him in the gym for more than 10 years. That guy zones out before he trains and fights. He had to, because Capetillo put his ass through hell in the gym. Trust me, he wasn’t paying attention to Capetillo while that crazy bastard was wrapping his hands.
I also know Capetillo pretty well. The dude is borderline retarded. If that dumb-ass has been pulling the wool over the eyes of the Nevada, New Jersey, New York and California athletic commissions for years with this illegal hand-wrap business then those commissions might as well be dissolved. They are worthless if their inspectors have been missing Capetillo slip inserts into Margarito’s hand wraps fight after fight.
And the trainers of all the fighters Margarito has fought over the years are also blind, because I’m telling you, Capetillo is NOT a slick or sly individual. He’s loud, obnoxious, sloppy man.
I don’t buy the theory that Margarito has loaded his gloves for previous fights. People who are habitual cheaters are secretive about their s__t, and Capetillo and Margarito were never like that in the gym. I think Capetillo panicked before the Mosley fight. His fighter had looked like dried-up dog doo doo in that camp. And to make matters worse, those fools weighed Margarito on their own messed-up scale and thought he was a pound over the weight limit (he wasn't). So Margz ran his ass off before the official weigh-in and drained himself down to 145.8 pounds. He was done before the fight and Capetillo knew it. So I think he freaked out and did some desperate s__t, because that’s the kind of guy he is. If he was a slick, calculating cheater, who has done the deed before and gotten away with it, there’s no way he slips those inserts in with Brotha Naazim staring down at him.
(Would you try some sneaky s__t with a big black bearded cloth skullcap-wearing Muslim glaring down at you? Hell no, you wouldn’t. That’s because you’re smart. Capetillo ISN’T.)
Anyway, General Cappy is gone from Team Margarito. Roberto Garcia is an honorable man, but like you, I don’t think having a real trainer in his corner is going to help Margz deal with the Pac-Monster’s speed, skill, footwork, and considerable (for his size) punching power.
http://www.ringtv.com/blog/2154/dougies_massive_monday_mailbag/
ah the infamous being seen with Capetillo thingy
let's see
1. Zanfer Promotions are the ones who invited Tony to the event
2. it was at the request of Giovanni Segura not Capetillo that Tony went back to the room as he and Gio were friends before all this happened
3. Capetillo was indeed a father figure to Tony so it was hard for him personally
4. Tony no longer has anything to do with Capetillo at all and it's been close to a year since he has had any talks with him
Margarito never said one bad thing about the man that was spposedly "solely" resposnsible for cheating and tarnishing his career to the point where he is currently disgraced and not licsenced in the US and took over a year's worth of big paychecks out of his career. Not to mention that months after his career was put on hold he was seen at Capetillos side in full support at one of Capetillos fights in Mexico. I dont know if I would forgive my own father for that.
Also, for days after the fight, Margarito and Capetillo kept saying that the labaratory inspection of the wraps was going to come out clean and Margarito even went on national TV and said it, if by any chance it was only Capetillo that knew about the wraps, do not tell me that Capetillo didn't tell Margarito about the plaster until they were both sitting in the court 17 days after the fight. Margarito wouldnt be kicking it with Capecheato 2 months later if this happened.
It is always hard to believe that was the first time though, I don't understand why that would be the fight to start something like that.
There is no real evidence though, just how cheaters generally operate and who knows Margarito could be the 1 different guy, but acting indignant is a bad sign to me.
If you make a one time mistake most people are very sorry and humble, if you are a true cheat you act indignant (atleast from what I know about cheaters).
I understand that view, and agree that it is logical. But everyone is acting like Nazim Richardson was the first trainer to ever inspect hand wraps. Fisher's theory about how Capetillo did this out of desperation to try and get his poorly trained and weight drained champion past Mosley makes some sense. The fact that it was very sloppily done also indicates to me that this wasn't something he was good at.
Once again, there is ZERO evidence that Margarito ever stepped into a ring with loaded gloves. All his previous wraps were signed off by the opposing trainer and the state athletic commission. It is very naive to think only Mosley's trainer was sharp enough to catch it.
It is always hard to believe that was the first time though, I don't understand why that would be the fight to start something like that.
There is no real evidence though, just how cheaters generally operate and who knows Margarito could be the 1 different guy, but acting indignant is a bad sign to me.
If you make a one time mistake most people are very sorry and humble, if you are a true cheat you act indignant (atleast from what I know about cheaters).
actually that's Steve Kim, Dougie is usually critical of Tony
well, it is more of they both kind of pushed Margarito when they were on maxboxing, since then I have seen them both be critical of Margarito while defending past positions they had.
To me that is what this is, that is cool. I would have thrown Margarito under the bus though.
Once again, there is ZERO evidence that Margarito ever stepped into a ring with loaded gloves. All his previous wraps were signed off by the opposing trainer and the state athletic commission. It is very naive to think only Mosley's trainer was sharp enough to catch it.
i kno u spend more time around gloves and wraps than i could ever hope to so i would never try to argue those fact with u. but as far as any athlete knowing and not knowing, i think they should all know one way or another. pay attention, ask questions.
ah but that's an ideal and a far cry from reality. Most guys pay no mind to how their trainers wrap.
like i said b4, in most sports athletes are required to know what their doctors/nutritionists give them so that they dont fail drug tests. these dudes arent chemists n shit but they can ask questions and pay attention.
but do they? not all the time and only to the extent where they don't get caught.
its sad that it has to be that way, but thats the world we live in today where cheating is a part of professional sports.
very true
but here is something
say Tony didn't honestly know. People I have asked at CSAC state that Tony's case was believable that he indeed did not know. People that night state that the only two people who made no bones about Nazim's claims were Tony and his co-manager. They insisted Capetillo rewrap both hands to avoid further argument.
if that is the case in the end he is responsible for his team and has stated as such. IMO, because he is responsible for the team he took his suspension, made no effort to fight during that year in-spite of the rumors, and only after a year looked for a way to fight again.
then at some point we should give him a shot to prove this.
guess bob is using his media contacts to help pave the way for marg to get either a temp lisc in nevada or reinstatement in california.
Besides, what kind of racist sh!t is he spewing. If a big, bearded, white, jewish trainer with a yalmulke was looking at the wraps he would've tried something?
DOug is using all opinions, all supposition, no facts ( other than he has been in the gym) to determine if marg cheated prior to this fight. Wow this is disappointing.
:lol1:
You guys should really try to do at least a little research before throwing accusations around.
Doug Fischer is the most critical writer of Bob Arum. If you've actually tried to read a few mailbags before spewing nonsense, you would've known that. Shit, if you would've clicked on the fukcing link and read the first response he posted, you would see where he says:
"Arum During the 1990s, Arum did as much dirt as Don King, perhaps even more, but the media always focused its critical eye on the ex-con from Ohio, not the Harvard Law School grad.
Why does Arum do what he does? He can. He’s the lucky bastard, not Mayweather, who the media is willing to criticize (it’s not just me anymore)."
If you're gonna run around throwing serious accusations at credible writers, do some research.
oh I dont bro
in fact unlike the recent back and forth arguments that go on here (the two big guys) I encourage this debate
it's fine that people believe that Tony cheated for more than one fight
but it should also be okay for me to debate the opposite and I have, fairly respectfully too.
as to the point of him knowing what's in his wraps aspect it's a good point but I asked that to the opponent Margarito faced that night and he said he pays absolutely no attention to his wraps. All he does is listen to music and close his eyes until they are done.
also to that point the weight of the insert, added with the substances, is minimal enough to not be able to discern much difference. I think it was .2 grams heavier. Plus it was moist so it wasn't at the point where it was hard yet if at all.
i kno u spend more time around gloves and wraps than i could ever hope to so i would never try to argue those fact with u. but as far as any athlete knowing and not knowing, i think they should all know one way or another. pay attention, ask questions. like i said b4, in most sports athletes are required to know what their doctors/nutritionists give them so that they dont fail drug tests. these dudes arent chemists n shit but they can ask questions and pay attention. its sad that it has to be that way, but thats the world we live in today where cheating is a part of professional sports.
Yeah, I'm hungry and it's dinnertime. Imo, those pics look different, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. And i don't recall me saying that you stated Margo wasn't found guilty, if i did, my bad.
Again, nice debate, and you have my respect, bud. I wasn't trying to be right so much as i was looking for answers to questions. I have my opinion, which is not fact. But we also have a very controversial situation with no fact to prove otherwise, so no winers or losers here.
Just online friends discussing the violent sport we love so much, and can get a bit heated about.
Peace
agreed good debate and one that I respect and actually encourage
if you disagree with me it doesn't mean we aren't
not at all
dnt matter really. margs should have known wat was being wrapped in his hands just like in most sports athletes are required to kno whats being given to them as supplements if they fail drug tests. did he use illegal wraps b4?? who knows... what we do kno is that he was caught once trying to use them. u cant blame ppl for believing that it wasnt his first time using them. thats human nature.
oh I dont bro
in fact unlike the recent back and forth arguments that go on here (the two big guys) I encourage this debate
it's fine that people believe that Tony cheated for more than one fight
but it should also be okay for me to debate the opposite and I have, fairly respectfully too.
as to the point of him knowing what's in his wraps aspect it's a good point but I asked that to the opponent Margarito faced that night and he said he pays absolutely no attention to his wraps. All he does is listen to music and close his eyes until they are done.
also to that point the weight of the insert, added with the substances, is minimal enough to not be able to discern much difference. I think it was .2 grams heavier. Plus it was moist so it wasn't at the point where it was hard yet if at all.
you're done?
man okay but because I found a pic that clearly shows that Cotto got tore up against Manny as well?
and again where did I state that Margarito wasn't found guilty?
Yeah, I'm hungry and it's dinnertime. Imo, those pics look different, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. And i don't recall me saying that you stated Margo wasn't found guilty, if i did, my bad.
Again, nice debate, and you have my respect, bud. I wasn't trying to be right so much as i was looking for answers to questions. I have my opinion, which is not fact. But we also have a very controversial situation with no fact to prove otherwise, so no winers or losers here.
Just online friends discussing the violent sport we love so much, and can get a bit heated about.
Peace
you're done?
man okay but because I found a pic that clearly shows that Cotto got tore up against Manny as well?
and again where did I state that Margarito wasn't found guilty?
dnt matter really. margs should have known wat was being wrapped in his hands just like in most sports athletes are required to kno whats being given to them as supplements if they fail drug tests. did he use illegal wraps b4?? who knows... what we do kno is that he was caught once trying to use them. u cant blame ppl for believing that it wasnt his first time using them. thats human nature.
you're done?
man okay but because I found a pic that clearly shows that Cotto got tore up against Manny as well?
and again where did I state that Margarito wasn't found guilty?
This...http://www.************.com/wp-content/uploads/cotto77741.jpg
and this...(same pic pretty much)http://www.braggingrightscorner.com/cottomarghurt3_072608.jpg
Look at that pic, those are big nasty gashes he's bleeding like i said, profusely from and
look quite different than this...http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2526/4108509916_afd11ec5a6.jpg where he's bleeding from his nose and his face is very bruised. There's a big difference between very bruised with a bloody nose and blood pouring from huge cuts all over his face.
I'm done here. Go argue with the commissioners who found him guilty of committing a serious crime. I'm not Cotto's lawyer. I'm just a big fan who believes the authorities, not a margo fan.
btw, go look at the poll. Looks like I'm not the only one. Let's just agree to disagree, but we do agree on one point. He was caught attempting to cheat in the Mosley fight. He would have cheated if he didn't get caught. That makes him a scumbag right there.
Getting caught attempting to cheat is the same is cheating.
He very well may have ruined Shanes career if he didn't get caught. Fact.
Nice debate Earner, i respect you. It's nice to get that out and have a nice heated debate and keep it respectful. You have yourself a nice evening, bud! :)
Peace
I never even mentioned Pwilliams face Earner, don't call me a liar! Here is the article i was looking for. and that pic you posted of Cotto's face is pretty blurred, and doesn't look anything like After Margo got done with him, he was bleeding from the side of his head and his eyes and ears, and NOT just his nose.
ur right apologies it was the other person
what pic?
how about the close up? pretty clear to me
here
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2526/4108509916_afd11ec5a6.jpg
And here is the incriminating article. You go argue with the commision and tell them their investigators are wrong. http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/3/27/812310/plaster-officially-found-i
um this is for the Mosley fight.
show me the one for the Cotto fight.
not sure what this proves other than we both agreed he and his team attempted to cheat for the MOSLEY fight
What were sulfur and calcium doing inside a boxers gloves? So now you want me to go dig up pictures of cotto's busted up face dripping with blood? He had blood all over his face, and i will go find those pics now.
um because they attempted to cheat?
dude wtf? where did I say he didn't try to cheat against MOSLEY?
lol go find pic there are plenty
just as many as there of him busted up for Manny
but go on believing your warrior was cheated
Isn't this the guy that had some article comparing Flomos and pactards and felt pactards were chill while flomos were annoying?
Hard to take his buddy buddy opinions about Margarito seriously.
um correct me if I am wrong but
didn't jazluvr state PWIll's face was unmarked?
well he lied
it was
anything else?
I never even mentioned Pwilliams face Earner, don't call me a liar! Here is the article i was looking for. and that pic you posted of Cotto's face is pretty blurred, and doesn't look anything like After Margo got done with him, he was bleeding from the side of his head and his eyes and ears, and NOT just his nose.
And here is the incriminating article. You go argue with the commision and tell them their investigators are wrong. http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/3/27/812310/plaster-officially-found-i
What were sulfur and calcium doing inside a boxers gloves? So now you want me to go dig up pictures of cotto's busted up face dripping with blood? He had blood all over his face, and i will go find those pics now.
and yet one more:
http://www.pound4pound.com/Photos/BretNewton/2007/MargaritovsWilliams/MargaritovsWilliams101.jpg
not exactly unmarked as been previously stated now is he?