What some Fans still fail to realize about Promoters, Trainers, Managers and Fighters

this is a good thread i hope everyone reads and understands it. so we can filter out alot of crying whining who duck who bullshit. its a buisness if it make sense to them they will do it. end of story noone knows whats being said and what will happen later on so just chill relax enjoy what boxing comes on until then, promoters and managers protect their fighters and fighters having say so in their careers protect themselves as well. its a buisness before its a sport

Most of the time, A PPV Boxing card is like a CD Album. You like the Hit Single but you don't care so much for the rest of the trashy CD, so instead of wasting 20 bucks, you download that song off the net. Don King PPVs in the mid 90s is like a really good CD nowadays. It's excellent all-around, and you don't have to pay for it. Black box= rapidshare/torrent/hotfile/megaupload, etc...

People should understand this, it really helps to explain what goes down in boxing, and this is not jsut a now thing this is how the fight game works. Hell look at the Rocky movies (up to III anyways), eventually you sell out no matter who you are.

Totally agree but that is the POV of those involve in the business. As a fan, I don't need any of that mess. Just get me good fights. If it is to a fan's opinion that particular fight is shitty, let him have that opinion. It may or may not sway a particular fight but who can fault a fan who just want to be entertained. It is his money that the boxing business is running. I often take the view as a fan only, and I don't really understand how some people would take offense if some don't know the PPV percentage. Or how to compute for the split? Or being a financial expert? Lolz. I fight that amusing to say the least but the money side takes only 1% of my interest in this sport. It may come full circle, who knows one day those same guys running boxing will realize that. Hope it will not be too late.

If fighter, promoters etc. fail to realize is that for them to make real money and a good living is to please the fans. I hate MMA but the reason that sport is growing more and more to the fact that now is competing with boxing is because they are always doing their best to please the FANS.

Yeah. I hear a lot of people say "you should care about money first, and then when you're rich, you care about cementing your legacy as a great". In theory it makes sense, but in reality, we more often than not see the opposite. Look at Sugar Ray Leonard in the late 80s. Already filthy rich, he would've earned much respect in boxing circles for fighting someone like Mike McCallum or especially Michael Nunn. Leonard instead fought a rematch with a supposedly shot Tommy Hearns at a catchweight, and then a third match with Roberto Duran. During Leonard-Hearns 2, Larry Merchant said that Tommy himself stated he wanted no parts of Michael Nunn. Despite coming off the win against John Mugabi, Terry Norris was viewed as a "cherry-picked" opponent and a huge underdog to Ray. After losing to Floyd Mayweather, Oscar De La Hoya still had his choice of opponents to fight. Fighting the winner of Antonio Margarito-Miguel Cotto would've helped his legacy. Instead he fought Manny Pacquiao, a big payday viewed by most at the time as being too small for Oscar. Bernard Hopkins went for a rematch with the shell of Roy Jones. Kelly Pavilk & Joe Calzaghe were good fights, although moving up in weight (Pavlik being a MW), but much more calculated in terms of reward/risk than someone like Chad Dawson (who'd been the same division as B-Hop for awhile). Winky Wright was another guy coming up from MW. Calzaghe also cashed out against the shell of Roy. Everything you said is on point. I think younger fans of today become too frustrated with wanting to fit in as a "real" boxing fan(whatever that means). So they come up these match ups of the 80s and say "well look at SRL, Duran, Hearns, Hagler. They are not chicken, they didn't care about money, they fought for legacy" being young myself, those claims are laughable. What's happening now with Mayweather, Pacquiao, Mosley, Williams and any fighter, it's exactly what was happening back in the 60s, 70s, 80s. Boxers fought the best money fighters out there, not the best fighters. If the best fighter happened to be th eone who also brought the most money then so be it. Nothing has changed. Back in the day they still fought low risk high reward fighters. Like the names you mentioned Nunn and McCallum didn't bring as much money to the table and their risk was just too high.

What I gathered from Tyson was that at first, it was all about the Legacy as far as him personally and D'Amato. D'Amato didn't care about money so Tyson didn't either. His managers did of course. But as the business took hold, circumstances changed, that fantasy he had about boxing faded, and so did he. Maybe not exact, but something like that. And for Holyfield, yes, Holyfield was about the money too but he certainly would have taken the fight with Pac because of the combination of MONEY and Legacy...and I do think he would have taken the fight with Shane (unlike Pac) because there was still that ego of wanting to prove himself the best....all while making that money. Relating to this being if Holyfield was in their position.

When you're older you want the biggest money fights out there to check out. Yeah. I hear a lot of people say "you should care about money first, and then when you're rich, you care about cementing your legacy as a great". In theory it makes sense, but in reality, we more often than not see the opposite. Look at Sugar Ray Leonard in the late 80s. Already filthy rich, he would've earned much respect in boxing circles for fighting someone like Mike McCallum or especially Michael Nunn. Leonard instead fought a rematch with a supposedly shot Tommy Hearns at a catchweight, and then a third match with Roberto Duran. During Leonard-Hearns 2, Larry Merchant said that Tommy himself stated he wanted no parts of Michael Nunn. Despite coming off the win against John Mugabi, Terry Norris was viewed as a "cherry-picked" opponent and a huge underdog to Ray. After losing to Floyd Mayweather, Oscar De La Hoya still had his choice of opponents to fight. Fighting the winner of Antonio Margarito-Miguel Cotto would've helped his legacy. Instead he fought Manny Pacquiao, a big payday viewed by most at the time as being too small for Oscar. Bernard Hopkins went for a rematch with the shell of Roy Jones. Kelly Pavilk & Joe Calzaghe were good fights, although moving up in weight (Pavlik being a MW), but much more calculated in terms of reward/risk than someone like Chad Dawson (who'd been the same division as B-Hop for awhile). Winky Wright was another guy coming up from MW. Calzaghe also cashed out against the shell of Roy.

when you're new to the game, it's all about legacy / recognition when you're in the game, it becomes a business when you've grown tired of the game, you fall back and care more about the sport and worry about your legacy as you retire When you're older you want the biggest money fights out there to check out.

It's about making a living. It's not about what the fans want, it's about what they want from you; MONEY. As long as they can continue to get away with it, they'll keep on doing it. And how can you blame them. If you are offered big money and easier fights...that's more alluring than tough fights and possibly smaller money. Tough fights = risk of your health = poorer quality of life Tough fights will mean a shorter career most of the time. And we can add in both short-term and long term damage to your health. Why do you think Roach and Arum look after Manny? To protect Manny; to protect their investment. And why do you think Manny listens to them? Because it has helped him make a great living following their guidance. Same goes for Floyd before people think this is just about Manny. What were Floyd's words when asked about Margarito? "so you know, were not fighting to prove to the boxing fans who who the best is" Floyd even admitted it isn't about legacy, it's about money. Cashing those checks because he is in the cash-checking business. At least he admits it. All the legacy stuff, used for the most part as a selling point to the fans. It's all about match-making. Most fighters have done and are doing this. Only crazy guys like Evander Holyfield will take on anyone. Catch-weights to drain fighters, waiting to fight fighters at the right time, fighting past prime fighters to help build a legacy on because that fighter has a "name" you can put on your resume to promote to the fans.........all about making Money. Even with Holyfield, whose opposition level no one will reasonably criticize, it was about money (to feed his 100 illegitimate babies). He rejected a unification bout with Lewis in 1998 because he wanted more money. He got it a year later. I expect fighters to try to make as much money as possible but I still want to see good matchups. A fighter making a huge payday against a washed up guy, well good for him, but it does nothing for me. I'm disgusted by the whole Mayweather-Pacquiao saga, but I get this feeling there's more to it than meets the eye with Floyd and Arum and who's ducking who. Arum being so complimentary of Floyd makes me wonder if there's some sort of deal with Mayweather to fight Pacquiao next year while Manny fights another Top Rank guy in the meantime. Bob takes any opportunity he can to bash Floyd, now he's all on his jock and making excuses for him?

Fighters come up wanting to become the best in the world, but as soon as they get to that point, they get coerced by promoters and managers (trainers once in a while, but most are old school about it) to take the route that they've mapped out and then become willing accomplices. And the way boxing's infrastructure is, it allows them to be able to pull it off without having to face the best of the best. That's the only way to explain someone who fought Diego Corrales at his first weight being so gunshy about getting the ring. That's the only way to explain someone who's risen in so many weight classes, now reduced to an in house fighter. That's the only way to explain someone that was a unified titlist at 122 now on the outside looking at 126. If somebody doesn't grow some balls he's just gonna have to sit back and watch an undisputed, Ring, lineal champion get crowned without him having any say in it.

That's all good and well, but we - the paying audience and the whole reason they have shitloads of money in the first place - don't have to like, respect or appreciate what they do if it doesn't satisfy us. As an aggressive response, we'll seek out ways to watch their work for free (i.e. streams, downloads) and then spend time afterwards criticising their whole career. Yeah. Nice and fair that way. People will try to watch for free anyway if they can. While they are Wealthy, sitting at home, in their bed, with one girl sitting on his face, another girl on top of his dick, another girl licking his feet, another girl yelling out fake moans, another girl....

That's all good and well, but we - the paying audience and the whole reason they have shitloads of money in the first place - don't have to like, respect or appreciate what they do if it doesn't satisfy us. As an aggressive response, we'll seek out ways to watch their work for free (i.e. streams, downloads) and then spend time afterwards criticising their whole career. Yeah. Nice and fair that way.

when you're new to the game, it's all about legacy / recognition when you're in the game, it becomes a business when you've grown tired of the game, you fall back and care more about the sport and worry about your legacy as you retire

I fully understand this point of view, respect it, and try to explain to others whenever it calls for. But..... Floyd's made more money in this last fiscal year than every athlete, except Tiger Woods. Pacquiao should be in the top 10 money makers or pretty damn close to it. And they're both standing to make career high paydays off of 1 fight. It's not about money at this point, it's past that. It's about greed, ego, and pride. This is true too

I fully understand this point of view, respect it, and try to explain to others whenever it calls for. But..... Floyd's made more money in this last fiscal year than every athlete, except Tiger Woods. Pacquiao should be in the top 10 money makers or pretty damn close to it. And they're both standing to make career high paydays off of 1 fight. It's not about money at this point, it's past that. It's about greed, ego, and pride.