Watch Ali get outboxed and seriously hurt against Henry Cooper

An expert such as you should also advise Manny Steward, Wladimir Klitschko's trainer, about Liston's lack of ability. He seems to disagree with you: who is this "expert"? he well known and respected?

An expert such as you should also advise Manny Steward, Wladimir Klitschko's trainer, about Liston's lack of ability. He seems to disagree with you: Q: If Sonny Liston had gotten his shot earlier against Floyd Patterson and if he didn’t have Ali coming up, how good could Sonny Liston have been? A: Sonny Liston, I watched Sonny Liston when I was a teenager do something that I’ve never seen any heavyweight do—walk through the whole division almost from being the number ten guy all the way up to the champion because he was that devastating like around ’57, and ’58, and ’59. I mean he had unbelievable brutal punching power. He was mean, punched with both hands, and I think that the time that he finally got to the title, I think his best years had gone and right after he won the title he began to live the life of a middle aged wealthy man. He lost the real focus that he had earlier. ’57, ’58, and ’59 he was one of the most vicious machines probably ever in boxing, but after he won the title, from my reports and from what I gather, he started drinking a lot and he was golfing and he just lost that total edge. He was living the life of a comfortable man and then here comes exactly what the computer prints out—the thing in the world for him.. A fast, young fighter, good movement, a solid amateur background, and who had been fighting on a regular basis, so therefore when the match-up came it was just perfect timing for one, terrible timing for another guy who had slipped past his prime—but if they had fought, in like say ’58 or ’59, a prime Sonny Liston and a prime I would still say Cassius Clay or whatever—I don’t know. I don’t know. Sonny at that stage was just such a really powerful wrecking machine and I remember the fights he had with Cleveland Williams—oh my God. I don’t know, Sonny might have won if they would have fought at that time.

The smelling salts or whatever Dundee put under Ali's nose that brought back to planet earth were illegal, so he did cheat.

You're hilarious. Liston was a slow 1-2 fighter with hardly any talent. Travis Walker=Sonny Liston The only one hilarious here is you. I also mentioned nothing about speed, talent, technique, only power. Are you denying that Liston had power behind his jab? Watch from 5:00 onwards: Travis Walker is a glass-jawed joke, and I don't usually throw out such terms, but I get a laugh out of his fights.

Yer he wins... but Ali should be dominating this guy. Not getting knocked around the ring... having to cheat to win (ripping a glove up). Look at Ali's defense... it's not great like Floyd's is. Floyd does everything better than Ali. Floyd does do everything better than Ali..BECAUSE HE'S A WW. Ali has a better chin though. Taking a HW punch is a much harder thing to do. Ali often didn't show up with his A game. In his big fights Ali almost always won. I mean Emanuel Augustus gave Floyd trouble.. Floyd should have koed him in 3 rounds. Same with a guy like Corley.

GOAT had a bad round, got casual. And this was early in his career. Ali pwned.

Ali has a better jab, isn't afraid to throw combinations and flurries like Floyd is.....has better lateral movement and footwork...... not to mention he fought the higher quality of opposition.....showed great heart and character through adversity.... also, Dundee didn't tear the glove and Ali didn't get any extra time either.......what this proves is that Ali can get off the floor and still win a fight oh and Ali >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mayweather You are doing what Shattered Jaw is doing by disrespecting a great fighter to promote another. Saying Floyd doesn't throw combinations is false. He throws them when necessary. Watch the Hatton fight again! As far as the jab goes, Floyd has a great one but once again if the fight calls for a jab he does that as well. We can all agree that they are two of the greatest fighters that ever lived

What's going to happen when Wladimir fights an opponent who doesn't have to fight him in close in order to land punches on him? Ali was faster and had about the same reach. He could land his punches and get out of the way. Wladimir is not a counter puncher, he relies on punishing his opponents as they try to make their way in, so there's less of a risk for Ali to get hit back as he unloads his quick combinations, and they were amazingly quick in his prime (1965-67). Ali would use all of the ring and pick his spots. Wladimir would command the centre of the ring and attempt to cut off the ring. He would be the one forcing the fight, because he's not faster than Ali. Ali would make him pay for that, see for example his fight against Sanders. Wladimir was being aggressive and got hit with a counter that hurt him badly. He is more defensively aware now but then again he hasn't exactly been facing Ali types who are fast and rangy enough to catch him. I don't think Wladimir has a more powerful jab than Liston, although I do think his jab will be more useful against the Ali type than Liston's. However it should be noted that at his peak Ali had unbelievable reflexes and slipped punches with ease. You really had to set him up in order to land punches on him.

what shattered jaw posts about is the following... "Hatton KO1 Mosley Has A China Chin" "i thought audley harrison would have a better career then ali" "floyd>Ali No debate or question about it" "Amir Khan is the biggest disgrace in boxing" "chins!" so zip it ;) its ok to cry because your a little noob who knows f*ck all...here have a bottle and go cry to carl froch :bottle:

210lb Shavers was a great puncher sure. Better than 240lb Wlad and Vitali..... Notsureifserious.jpg (You must also factor in the host of relative bums in guys like Shaver's record). No. I give reasonable responses clearly stating my reasoning. Your posts cosist of: 'OMFGUR SO PAETHAetdfjdc so the bros beat ali lewis foreman frazier holyfield tyson bowe holmes marciano liston just to rattle of some names cause if they beat the greatest they would beat the rest surley,their was a poll on here and 90percent thought holyfield would take vlad out late am holyfield fan so just bringing that up prime vitali couldnt beat past it lewis you are overating them imo

All that is said about Floyd was said about Roy Jones, I hope after his best days are behind him you still put him on a pedestal. I really hope you don't move on to ride the next man's jock. Floyd is only the best on this website. Ali will always be better to the rest of the world.

At first this was a troll thread but it's actually turned out to be an interesting discussion.

Floyd > Ali. There is no debate. :haha::haha::haha: NOT EVEN CLOSE.

i just cant stop laughing at how pathetic you are.... No. I give reasonable responses clearly stating my reasoning. Your posts cosist of: 'OMFGUR SO PAETHAetdfjdc Froch is a BUM LOLLOLOLOL BUM BUM :spankme::bottle::luvbed::hijacked:'

Cooper, unlike Danny Green, knocked out numerous 200+ lb men during his career. The man could hit. Watch him devastate Joe Erskine: Around 9 minutes Wladimir and Vitali have advantages in height, but Ali has similar reach and as fast as Wladimir may be, Ali was faster, both with his hands and his feet. Most of Wladimir's opponents stand in front of him and get picked apart with the jab. Ali took out many adept jabbers such as Sonny Liston, Joe Bugner and Ernie Terrell who simply couldn't find anything to hit. Do the Klitschko brothers have what it takes to catch him? 6:30 Even if they manage to land their best punches, Ali took about the best punch of any heavyweight I've seen. Wladimir doesn't and Vitali is not as fast and skilled as his brother. Against Ali he would be made to look slow and clumsy. Well for the moment I'll ignore the fact Green has never fought anyone above 200lb. Yes, sure Cooper can hit - I've already complimented his left hand strength. Concerning Ali, you must factor in guys like Liston were jabbing on the same level as him. They also followed and chased Ali, wasting energy. Something Wlad has proven he wouldn't do, although I accept he has not faced a dancer as far as I can remember. Wlad would just be jabbing him all night. The hardest jabs Ali would have ever faced. Everyone claims they are going to get inside of Wlad but noone ever can. They just get ****ed up or his uses his crude and frankly basic smoothering to control them. Also, while they have a similar reach. Wlad will have inches on him because of his sheer width. Ali could also take a punch yes... and he would certainly have to. Everyone gets hit with shots in Heavyweight championship fights and it would very interesting to see if he could take the thudding and repetitious power of Wlad. It's certainly a very intriguing matchup. Also.... that first knockout. I havn't seen that before. Dude got KTFO.

What's the matter? It was a reasonable post. i just cant stop laughing at how pathetic you are....:rofl: :tool:

Cooper was like what.... Danny Green's size and he was knocking down Ali. Also, we can go further into Ali's prime and still: There is no evidence Ali possess the necessary qualities to beat Wlad. He was great but greta for his era. The K-bros are too big, too fast, too strong and just too damn clever to get beaten by Ali. Of course, if Haye sparks Wlad out I'm going to look ridiculous in saying this but ho-hum. Also, yes you are right. I just made up the minute claim. I did watch the video you know. Cooper, unlike Danny Green, knocked out numerous 200+ lb men during his career. The man could hit. Watch him devastate Joe Erskine: Around 9 minutes Wladimir and Vitali have advantages in height, but Ali has similar reach and as fast as Wladimir may be, Ali was faster, both with his hands and his feet. Most of Wladimir's opponents stand in front of him and get picked apart with the jab. Ali took out many adept jabbers such as Sonny Liston, Joe Bugner and Ernie Terrell who simply couldn't find anything to hit. Do the Klitschko brothers have what it takes to catch him? 6:30 Even if they manage to land their best punches, Ali took about the best punch of any heavyweight I've seen. Wladimir doesn't and Vitali is not as fast and skilled as his brother. Against Ali he would be made to look slow and clumsy.

LOL...............:haha: What's the matter? It was a reasonable post.

But you can't just judge the Cooper fight to make a determination how he would do against the W bros. Back then at 15 rounds a title fight I doubt there would be 6' 7" 250 HW. This is my point. The biggest guy ALi fought was what... Foreman? Sure, ALi was past prime then but comparing K-bros to Foreman is too hard. One thing is for sure though - if Ali lay against the ropes there would be a brutal Wlad KO.

He got hurt yes, out boxed No!