Top 10 P4P Today

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_100_:_Ranking_the_World%27s_Best_Fighters Check the link for yourself. Also, are you at all familiar with Veeraphol Sahaprom? Seen any of his fights in his prime, know the people he fought, etc.? I'm pretty sure I already know the answer, I just want to see what you're going to come up with. honestly...no because there is not much to see, i did see him get sparked by Hasegawa, who i believe is an awesome fighter. Sahaprom has 0 wins over any household names, wheras Kessler does. Sahaprom has NEVER fought in the US wheras Kessler has. I doubt sahaprom was the #1 fighter in his division wheras Kessler was. I hope your satisfied with my response because it still doesnt change the fact that.... Kessler> Sahaprom :lol1::lol1: Thanks for the response. Well.................:pat: :rolf: :rofl:

Hozumi should be on there. If Donaire is on there, then why can't Hozumi when he has held a title longer and had more defenses than Donaire? Makes no sense. Caballero shouldn't be top 10 either. Not yet. Specially if Hozumi isn't on there. TBH, I don't think any of them should be on it. Hasegawa is on the cusp, if he beats Montiel he has a solid claim to make it though.

Jim was saying the Marg. win against Cotto can't count in the lineal reasoning: Cotto beat Mosely, 2007 Marg beat Cotto, 2008 Mosely beat Marg 2009 As you said: To which he said: Where did he say this? I didn't see it. My point is, saying Shane is a cheater (and lost to Cotto) is not the same as saying Marg is a cheater (and beat Cotto). In terms of rating one another, Cotto simply isn't in my top 10 because of time and wins. Shane has a more recent more impressive win, Cotto has a more recent loss. I wouldn't put my reasoning as lineal, as you did. X beat Y and Y beat Z. Point of fact in the Marg. v. Paul Williams fight, from my view Williams lost the last 6 rounds straight. So the cheating had some impact most likely. Williams is fortunate in his style is very different from Cottos, Williams is a distance combination fighter on the outside, Cotto is a power inside puncher. Ergo Williams didn't suffer as much damage as Cotto did. I was debating with him in two separate Williams threads. Got confused. I see what you are saying but thats why hes ranked over Cotto. Because Mosley beat Marg and Cotto lost to Pacquiao.

I agree that both should be 1 and 2 in the HW list but I can't imagine them fighting anyone besides another HW. Talent-wise, they are both good and they could likely beat some of the other guys on the P4P lists skill wise but they are just so massive that I can't help but consider them in a class of their own I can see that. But when Ali was a HW, he was P4P. And so was Tyson. You could make arguments for Lewis, Holyfield, etc. Sure, the HW division has become less competitive. I don't think it should be in its own category, it's just where the money is in boxing. The advent of ODLH the ridiculous money making machine shifted the balance permanently to the lower divisions, something even Sugar Ray Leonard didn't accomplish. I mean, the Golden Boys draw is what gave birth to the Floyd Mayweathers, Manny Paqcuiaos, The rise of Shane Mosely, and on and on. Those guys wouldn't have had the chance to become mega earners, wouldn't have been as driven without the Golden Boy star, etc, etc. Until another unique fighter comes along in the upper divisions, the concentration will probably remain in the lower divisions. Particularly with Manny and Mayweathers activity there.

Fighters who should be in the Top 10 P4P: Wladimir Klitschko - Dominant IBF/WBO/IBO/RING Unified Heavyweight Champion of the World. Vitali Klitschko - Dominant WBC Heavyweight Champion of the World Lucian Bute - best super middleweight in the world Sergio Martinez - best middleweight in the world Who has Bute beat? Carl Froch is the best Super middleweight in the world based off his wins at 168.

Hozumi should be on there. If Donaire is on there, then why can't Hozumi when he has held a title longer and had more defenses than Donaire? Makes no sense. Caballero shouldn't be top 10 either. Not yet. Specially if Hozumi isn't on there.

Originally Posted by Dunno, that is not my post...I think it was no ceilings or the guy he was in a convo with, someone is trying some funny stuff :nono: He put what was said in Italics, don't know when it's not in a quote box.

Well, I gave my list. Vitali isn't on it, maybe an honorable mention, but he was retired too long, hasn't fought enough. Wladimir is because he came back from being KOd to become the dominate Heavyweight not only against legit competition, but also besting one of the men who knocked him out cold, with his own KO (technically his trainer stopped the fight, but that was mercy) Not only that, but he does what heavy weights should do, KO people. He deserves it just out of top consistent competition, winning, and being impressive. I didn't put him at the top of the list, because obviously there's simply more talent at the lower weight classes. I agree that both should be 1 and 2 in the HW list but I can't imagine them fighting anyone besides another HW. Talent-wise, they are both good and they could likely beat some of the other guys on the P4P lists skill wise but they are just so massive that I can't help but consider them in a class of their own

How do we know Shane wasnt doped his whole career? You missing my point. That poster doesnt understand how Mosley is ranked higher then Cotto since Cotto beat him. Jim was saying the Marg. win against Cotto can't count in the lineal reasoning: Cotto beat Mosely, 2007 Marg beat Cotto, 2008 Mosely beat Marg 2009 As you said: You have to be kidding me? Cotto beat Mosley in 2007. Marg beat Cotto in 2008. Mosley beat Marg in 2009. You dont get how Mosley is ranked over Cotto. Like are you being serious right now? To which he said: Marg was found out to be a cheater, that win has no meaning. Then he says Pauls win vs. Marg doesnt count because Marg is a cheater. Umm shouldnt Paul get more credit if Marg was plasterd up and Paul still beat him? I dont get how it doesnt count. Where did he say this? I didn't see it. My point is, saying Shane is a cheater (and lost to Cotto) is not the same as saying Marg is a cheater (and beat Cotto). In terms of rating one another, Cotto simply isn't in my top 10 because of time and wins. Shane has a more recent more impressive win, Cotto has a more recent loss. I wouldn't put my reasoning as lineal, as you did. X beat Y and Y beat Z. Point of fact in the Marg. v. Paul Williams fight, from my view Williams lost the last 6 rounds straight. So the cheating had some impact most likely. Williams is fortunate in his style is very different from Cottos, Williams is a distance combination fighter on the outside, Cotto is a power inside puncher. Ergo Williams didn't suffer as much damage as Cotto did.

Originally Posted by mathed View Post So why do say Cotto should be ranked over Mosley since he beat him? Considering. Mosley was found out to be a cheater, that win has no meaning. This is too easy. When was Mosely accused of Steroids or whatever it was? Wasn't it 2003 when he had to testify, what exactly did that have to do with the Cotto fight? Which Mosely lost. So the fight shouldn't count, because 1 guy supposedly used drugs 7 years ago, and lost the fight with Cotto? Yeah, it is too easy. Apparently so easy you can't see how a win using plaster inserts shouldn't be counted. Dunno, that is not my post...I think it was no ceilings or the guy he was in a convo with, someone is trying some funny stuff :nono:

To me the K bros don't count. They are good but where do you place them in a P4P ranking? They will never move down in weight and they can't move up and given their size advantages, they would likely beat all other fighters. Well, I gave my list. Vitali isn't on it, maybe an honorable mention, but he was retired too long, hasn't fought enough. Wladimir is because he came back from being KOd to become the dominate Heavyweight not only against legit competition, but also besting one of the men who knocked him out cold, with his own KO (technically his trainer stopped the fight, but that was mercy) Not only that, but he does what heavy weights should do, KO people. He deserves it just out of top consistent competition, winning, and being impressive. I didn't put him at the top of the list, because obviously there's simply more talent at the lower weight classes.

When was Mosely accused of Steroids or whatever it was? Wasn't it 2003 when he had to testify, what exactly did that have to do with the Cotto fight? Which Mosely lost. So the fight shouldn't count, because 1 guy supposedly used drugs 7 years ago, and lost the fight with Cotto? Yeah, it is too easy. Apparently so easy you can't see how a win using plaster inserts shouldn't be counted. How do we know Shane wasnt doped his whole career? You missing my point. That poster doesnt understand how Mosley is ranked higher then Cotto since Cotto beat him. Then he says Pauls win vs. Marg doesnt count because Marg is a cheater. Umm shouldnt Paul get more credit if Marg was plasterd up and Paul still beat him? I dont get how it doesnt count.

So why do say Cotto should be ranked over Mosley since he beat him? Considering. Mosley was found out to be a cheater, that win has no meaning. This is too easy. When was Mosely accused of Steroids or whatever it was? Wasn't it 2003 when he had to testify, what exactly did that have to do with the Cotto fight? Which Mosely lost. So the fight shouldn't count, because 1 guy supposedly used drugs 7 years ago, and lost the fight with Cotto? Yeah, it is too easy. Apparently so easy you can't see how a win using plaster inserts shouldn't be counted.

To me the K bros don't count. They are good but where do you place them in a P4P ranking? They will never move down in weight and they can't move up and given their size advantages, they would likely beat all other fighters.

Marg was found out to be a cheater, that win has no meaning. So why do say Cotto should be ranked over Mosley since he beat him? Considering. Mosley was found out to be a cheater, that win has no meaning. This is too easy.

Marg was found out to be a cheater, that win has no meaning I would agree. Unfortunately, time and wins are what matter. When was your last win. Cotto, beat Clottey, but that's not as good as Shanes annihilation of Margarito. Cotto got barn burned by Manny. I like Cotto, and I can only imagine his career may have been going into the stratosphere had Margarito not nearly ruined him with illegal objects. I think Cotto lost something in that fight unfortunately. Cotto must rise back to get on my list. IMO, Cotto could become an HOF fighter. As long as he's not fighting Manny. Cotto can best just about anyone IMO with the exception of perhaps Floyd, and for sure Manny.

1. Manny Pacquiao 2. Floyd Mayweather Jr. 3. Sergio Martinez 4. Paul Williams 5. Shane Mosley 6. Nonito Donaire 7. JM Marquez 8. Chad Dawson 9. Lucian Bute 10. Celestino Caballero 1) Why are neither of the Klitschko Bros. on anyone's list? Say what you will about the HW division being dead, Wladimir is at least in the top 10 if not the top 5. 2) All the sudden everyone is in love with Sergio Martinez? If there's something I can't stand it's bandwagon fans. He's not top 5 P4P, who has he fought? Don't tell me about straight wins coming out of Argentina. He's had 2 controversial fights against Kermit Cintron and Paul Williams, good and elite fighters, and as far as I'm concerned another one he would not have won if not for cutting Pavlik. Pavlik was winning the fight at that point. 3) Arthur Abraham? JMM yes, Chad Dawson yes, Paul Williams yes, Shane Mosely yes. Also any top 10 list without Israel Vazquez and Rafeal Marquez is nonsense. My list: 1) Manny Pacquiao 2) Floyd Mayweather (Which I begrudgingly say. There's never been a more inactive and over rated champion IMO. Mayweather has 2, count them, 2 Hall of Fame fights. That is all. Look at any GOT HOF candidate, they have at least 5 HOF fights, and many of them close to 10 HOF fights) - For reference, the man above him, Manny has 8 HOF fights. 3) Paul Williams 4) Bhop, though out of the mainstream game, I don't care. Superman is ageless. 5) Shane Mosely 6) Wladimir Klitschko 7) Israel Vazquez 8) JMM 9) Rafeal Marquez 10) Chad Dawson Honorable mentions, Miguel Cotto, Sergio Martinez, maybe Doinare.

You have to be kidding me? Cotto beat Mosley in 2007. Marg beat Cotto in 2008. Mosley beat Marg in 2009. You dont get how Mosley is ranked over Cotto. Like are you being serious right now? Marg was found out to be a cheater, that win has no meaning.

Yet you have Mosley over Cotto. Funny how that is. You have to be kidding me? Cotto beat Mosley in 2007. Marg beat Cotto in 2008. Mosley beat Marg in 2009. You dont get how Mosley is ranked over Cotto. Like are you being serious right now?

Martinez over Williams I dont agree with. Donaire, Cab and JMM I also dont agree with. I think Bradley, Ward and Dirrell should be in over them. Yet you have Mosley over Cotto. Funny how that is.