Just how good is Pacquiao?

way better than everyone thought.

Yeah! Thats what I was going to put but I didn't know if people would take it the wrong way. He looked like Clottey when he shelled up like that. :fing02: I agree. His footwork got better. Before he would dart in and out, smother himself at times. In the Cotto fight, his feet were more tamed and he wouldn't smother himself. If you watch somewhere around the 6th round or so, Cotto gets pinned in the corner and Pacquiao goes traditional boxing on him. Instead of wailing like he normally does, he went jab-straight-right hook to the body. I was really amazed by this improvement. I can't believe I didn't notice it before. I just watched Cotto-Pacquiao again in slow motion. and at round 3 I can't believe Pac really had Cotto figured out. It's just a simple move to set Cotto up to land a right, and it was so effective he did it 3x in a row. round 3 :38secs remaining cocks his left...fake...right jab lands :36secs remaining cocks his left...fake...right jab lands :33secs remaining cocks his left...fake...right jab lands I did not notice it at first, I had to play it in 0.33x slow on VLC.

I'd say he has tremendous natural abilities and pays attention to what his trainer tells him. He is underated for his boxing skills and his defense. I'd say he is one of the most exciting boxers I have ever seen and has earned his p4p 1 position, it speaks volumes when a guy is so good that people accuse him of having to use steroids to do so. Well, I think that's just how good he is right now. We can name all of the proven and unproven cheaters in boxing, but noone ever did what Pacquiao has accomplished. I just would not believe that all the PEDs in the world can make Charlie Z even win a single world title.

some can learn to play guitar, piano in their 40s/50s of age.

Floyd has GREAT offense. Pac just throws more punches. Floyd is more select with his punches. I rate Offesne as accuracy, speed, power, timing. Floyd has that. And Pacquiao is developing that.... at freakin 31! That's what I saw, that's why I said he was getting close to Floyd. He was figuring out timing, when to burst, when to sit back. Like he was learning how to be a more effiecient boxer. You know me bro. I don't go apeshit for Pacquiao and all but what I saw was tripped me out.

I know what you mean. But If I use your definition I can say Williams is highly skilled because he made the MOR skilled Martinez fight his fight. Williams is very skilled. Let take Sugar Ray Leonard and Roberto Duran. Both have different strengths and weakness but in the first fight Leonard (who everyone thought was more skilled) ended up getting pressured and Fighting a "Duran" type fight. Duran clearly won that fight and to me was the more skilled fighter as he was able to impose his will on Leonard (BTW it wasn't leonard trying to do that either, but duran forced him to fight that type of fight).

fuk all that skills non sense. what you need is HEART. fights from the heart

defense maybe. don't know if you know this but boxing has different style and skills and attributes. he might not be as good as floyd on defense but let's not pretend floyd can match pacquiao's offense. Floyd has GREAT offense. Pac just throws more punches. Floyd is more select with his punches. I rate Offesne as accuracy, speed, power, timing. Floyd has that.

Nice observation there. Well, like what Roach often say...how different Pac is now? He is trying to learn now, he watches tapes and study other boxers. "..Then he pauses out of nowhere and just stands there with a hard shell" = that is what he learned while ringside in the Cotto-Clottey fight, if you look how Clottey coils up to his defense that is what Pac just did, he braces himself knowing Cotto would pour head and body combinations. But what I saw in the Cotto-Pacquiao fight is his footwork, it is so underrated. I watched the 4th round knockdown of Cotto and I focused on Pacquiao's movements...his hands and feet are well coordinated. As Pacquiao lands his left to Cotto's chin he moves out quickly too avoid any punches. Yeah! Thats what I was going to put but I didn't know if people would take it the wrong way. He looked like Clottey when he shelled up like that. :fing02: I agree. His footwork got better. Before he would dart in and out, smother himself at times. In the Cotto fight, his feet were more tamed and he wouldn't smother himself. If you watch somewhere around the 6th round or so, Cotto gets pinned in the corner and Pacquiao goes traditional boxing on him. Instead of wailing like he normally does, he went jab-straight-right hook to the body. I was really amazed by this improvement. I can't believe I didn't notice it before.

It's no point of arguing with him jrose because he view of being a "Skilled" boxer is narrow minded. Being skilled is so subjective and alot of things can go into making a fighter skilled. If I could sum it up I would say this, Skills is the ability to make your opponents fight your type of fight. Even a pure brawler can be skilled if he can get any type of opponent to fight his style boxing (If that makes sense). I know what you mean. But If I use your definition I can say Williams is highly skilled because he made the MOR skilled Martinez fight his fight.

In my quest to see how Pacquiao uses his jab, I come across the Cotto fight. So, i start re-watching the Cotto fight and I notice something that I didn't notice the first time. Besides Cotto looking horrible, not by cause of Pacquiao, he looks horrible in terms of health. That's not the point right now but I noticed that. Pacquiao was fucking around with Cotto. He stops his flurries half way even when Cotto is feeling the punches. Then he pitty pats at times when Cotto is walking in with his guard open. Honestly, it looked like he was trying to learn timing in the middle of a fight. Then he pauses out of nowhere and just stands there with a hard shell and lets Cotto wail on him some, as if he is trying to learn defense. He even switched up to a textbook style and tried to put in some jabs and followed it with body shots, like a boxing 101 class or something. He was seriously just fucking around with Cotto like a sparring match. Like how Mayweather did with JMM. I already know Pacquiao is good that isn't the point here. It's the little things that you don't see the first time around that this thread is about. Studying the tape is what this is bout. He is on some video game, movie, robot type shit. I don't know how you can learn during a real fight when your 30. It's really amazing. He was changing his style constantly, just small little tweaks. As if he was sponging up the new information/experience. Nice observation there. Well, like what Roach often say...how different Pac is now? He is trying to learn now, he watches tapes and study other boxers. "..Then he pauses out of nowhere and just stands there with a hard shell" = that is what he learned while ringside in the Cotto-Clottey fight, if you look how Clottey coils up to his defense that is what Pac just did, he braces himself knowing Cotto would pour head and body combinations. But what I saw in the Cotto-Pacquiao fight is his footwork, it is so underrated. I watched the 4th round knockdown of Cotto and I focused on Pacquiao's movements...his hands and feet are well coordinated. As Pacquiao lands his left to Cotto's chin he moves out quickly too avoid any punches.

Burner and Jro, you two should just agree to disagree. I think that you two, along with OSIRIS tend to go for different styles......I just don't see you all agreeing on this one. :lol1: It gunna get ugly. :lol1: actually its quite simply....skills is dependent on your ability to adapt to your opponent and getting them to fight your type of fight (imposing your style/will on your opponent). with that said here are guys with different types of style that I considered the most skilled guys in the sport Andre Ward Manny Pacquiao Wladimir Klitschko Arthur Abraham Floyd Mayweather Jr. Hozumi Hasegawa all of those guys fighter completely different but are all the best at what they do.

bernard hopkins didnt hit his prime until he was what mid 30s. antonio tarver, nate campbell all got better as they were in their 30s. Even lennox lewis got technically & defensively better in his early 30s. young lennox was very sloppy & relied a lot on his athleticism & size. As he worked with emmanuel steward & put more rounds in the ring, his confidence, craft, technique, guile, increased. That's what's happening with pacman right now. As he puts more & more rounds in the gym training & in the ring fighting every aspect of his game is improving as long as his physical is still there. Ah, alright. I like this response. I really didn't even think about B-hop and the guys you named. But it's something special, when I noticed it, I couldn't believe my eyes that he was really learning in a high profile fight.

I'd say he has tremendous natural abilities and pays attention to what his trainer tells him. He is underated for his boxing skills and his defense. I'd say he is one of the most exciting boxers I have ever seen and has earned his p4p 1 position, it speaks volumes when a guy is so good that people accuse him of having to use steroids to do so.

You're out of your damn mind. It's no point of arguing with him jrose because he view of being a "Skilled" boxer is narrow minded. Being skilled is so subjective and alot of things can go into making a fighter skilled. If I could sum it up I would say this, Skills is the ability to make your opponents fight your type of fight. Even a pure brawler can be skilled if he can get any type of opponent to fight his style boxing (If that makes sense).

some guys on here had a gif of pac throwing his left jab at the same time as cotto but turns his head also to slip cotto's jab, he did that a few times now whether that was technique or not its still aint easy to pull off

Hasegawa. No bs. I may be his #1 fan but watch him fight. He lands everything on the button. Even shots that should be off, they are in a critical zone somehow. Then go watch him train, he doesn't even make a fist when training. Those two combinations just don't match up. :dunno: Thank you Hasegawa is a fukking Surgeon in that ring.

So good that you've got a bunch of people running around saying that he must be on PEDs, despite the overwhelming lack of, uh ..... any evidence at all.

Burner and Jro, you two should just agree to disagree. I think that you two, along with OSIRIS tend to go for different styles......I just don't see you all agreeing on this one. :lol1: It gunna get ugly. :lol1:

Im interested to see what other people think about this. Duran was no Floyd Mayweather in boxing skills by any stretch of the imagination my dude. He had boxing skills but he was not Floyd Mayweather man. Who is the most skilled fighter out of these 3: Hasegawa Pacquiao Calderon Hasegawa. No bs. I may be his #1 fan but watch him fight. He lands everything on the button. Even shots that should be off, they are in a critical zone somehow. Then go watch him train, he doesn't even make a fist when training. Those two combinations just don't match up. :dunno: