Is Wlad the most.................

Is that the case really? Is it possible that the HW division is as it has been for over 100 years no better no worse with a few guys head and shoulders above the rest and then the distant contenders followed by journeymen? If the K-bros were not around would ppl be talking about the stacked and competitive HW division? Because that is what it would seem like it is today. Is it all all possible that most of these Klitschko victims are good fighters but just seem lousy next to the K-bros? This is what I think. the HW division is weaker than its ever been in terms of talent

i think u have an anversion to east european fighters. the ppl in usa were used to see black american fighters dominate the division, since tyson&holyfield left, there is not really a great hw from the us. the other great fighters like floyd get overshadowed by the political movement (pacquiao) of the philippines. wlad is the best thing happened to boxing, without him the hw division would be even more boring. it just makes fun to watch him destroy all those big mouth bums, i hope he fights david haye soon, so we can see a fight at eye level. its funny, back then the government could afford to bann a fighter like ali, i bet today they wouldnt. im just happy wladimir is not a filipino, they would have make a greek god out of him. You think I have an aversion to Easter European fighters because I think Wlad is boring? This has nothing to do with race, color, religion or country my man. It has to do with a fighter have the size and tools to be explosive and not taking advantage of them. Like I said though, as long as he keeps winning he should stick with what works. It just doesn't endear itself to me.

Probably. Here's Ring Magazine's top 50 punchers: 1. Joe Louis 2. Sam Langford 3. Jimmy Wilde 4. Archie Moore 5. Sandy Saddler 6. Stanley Ketchell 7. Jack Dempsey 8. Bob Fitzsimmons 9. George Foreman 10. Earnie Shavers 11. Sugar Ray Robinson 12. Ruben Olivares 13. Wilfredo Gomez 14. Rocky Marciano 15. Sonny Liston 16. Mike Tyson 17. Bob Foster 18. Thomas Hearns 19. Khaosai Galaxy 20. Alexis Arguello 21. Carlos Zarate 22. Max Baer 23. Rocky Graziano 24. Matthew Saad Muhammad 25. Julian Jackson 26. Danny Lopez 27. Gerald McClellan 28. Roberto Duran 29. Rodrigo Valdez 30. Felix Trinidad 31. Pipino Cuevas 32. Jim Jefferies 33. Lennox Lewis 34. Bennie Briscoe 35. Marvin Hagler 36. Edwin Rosario 37. Tommy Ryan 38. John Mugabi 39. Joe Frazier 40. Carlos Monzon 41. Tony Zale 42. Michael Spinks 43. Joe Gans 44. Elmer Ray 45. George Godfrey 46. Naseem Hamed 47. Alfonso Zamora 48. David Tua 49. Cleveland Williams 50. Julio Cesar Chavez Sandy Saddler could be a bore, Lewis could at times but Wladimir has been the least exciting for the past 3-4 years. I enjoy watching his earlier fights though and appreciate his effectiveness, but fights like Wladimir vs Ibragimov, Chagaev, Rahman aren't ones that I'll be reviewing any time soon. I do agree with you, but I also agree with Jab. I think for a guy that has such power and such a dominant physical presence over his opponents, he fights like someone that is smaller and doesn't have much power at all. It's the kind of thing in which you might ask yourself "Would Malignaggi fight the way he does if he possessed more power than everyone in his division?" I don't know if he would. I doubt it, but even he's been in more exciting fights than Wlad. It's just his style though and he wins very well with it. The difference between these guys is that Wright and Hopkins didn't have such huge physical advantages nor were they big punchers. In Winky's case, he was very weak in fact but still often got into a brawl and never shied away from a fight. He won his fights with what he had though, and that was a great jab, skills, and little power. Still, I think, as usual, many people are misconstruing what Jab is trying to ask. He is not saying Wlad is shit. He is saying that for a guy with such incredible power and being the best of his era at HW, is there anyone that knocks his opponents in a more boring fashion? I think it's perfectly valid argument. When you think of guys with the KO ratio of Wlad, you think of non stop aggressive animals that just wade in and brawl looking for the KO with every shot. Pavlik-esque type fighter or Margarito etc. Wlad is the complete opposite though and if nothing else it makes for an interesting comparison, which was the point of this thread. Stop taking it so personally. Geeeeez... Anyway, to answer the question Jab....No. Edit: Just on another point, I think a lot of the criticism on the technical aspect of his game is that while he is a good fighter, he is also very awkward to watch. A guy like Hopkins is beautiful to watch from a purely technical view, even if he is boring. He is like poetry in motion in terms of boxing, whereas Wlad is all flailing limbs and looks uncoordinated, though he isn't of course. That alone, for me anyway, makes him difficult and a bit boring to watch. If I was going to watch a guy for his technical skill it would be someone that was great to watch in his movements, his fluidity, the precision and preciseness of all his movements. Finally some logical responses. Thank you gentlemen.

Vitali is, in my mind "the uncrowned champion" of the H/W division, were he and Wlad not brothers, Vitali would have taken him out by now. That said, Wladamir is the 2nd best fighter, and the reason a lot of his fights are "boring" is because his opponents don't come to fight, they come to spoil and be defensive and try to survive, if his opponents opened up and attacked the fights would be more exciting, than just watching Wlad tee off. Not Wlads fault, his opponents. Agree with the first part but i believe his opponents do try to win, Wlad just shuts them down offensively.

not really, i think foreman was praising how great lennox jab is during the tua fight. 10 years later foreman talked bs about floyd, called him a chicken. and dont forget oscar outweighed floyd by at least 15LBS on fight night, while lennox looked like tuas big brother :D George Foreman says a lot of things though. Also it'd be wrong to say that only people in the US find Wladimir's fights dull to watch: Fedor Emelianenko interview in Kiev, Ukraine.

@ BennyST did u watch lennox vs tua? lennox was 7" taller and had also big physical advantages over tua, but that didnt stop him from dancing around tua all night. i dont see users creating threads about how boring LL was. Yep, I know what you mean mate. I think Lewis was boring too though and I think he also realised, in that fight, he wasn't going to knock Tua out. As TheGreatA pointed out, Lewis used to cop a shit load of flak and hate from everyone throughout his whole career while he was fighting. He still does now. I don't think anyone would bash Vitali, Wlad or any other great fighter that was much bigger for taking the cautious approach against Tua or some other iron chinned, one punch KO artist by simply outboxing him. That's one of those fights in which that's the only smart approach and the only sure way of winning. No one would have bashed Wlad for fighting the way he does against Tua. I think it is against the more vulnerable, less powerful fighters that he may take a bit more flak for. The only way Tua was likely to beat one of those guys was if they didn't take a cautious approach, decided to get into a fire-fight and then got knocked out with a left hook.

Not anymore when he's gone. You don't think Lewis caught criticism from some of his less than exciting performances? not really, i think foreman was praising how great lennox jab is during the tua fight. 10 years later foreman talked bs about floyd, called him a chicken. and dont forget oscar outweighed floyd by at least 15LBS on fight night, while lennox looked like tuas big brother :D

I've always wondered how they work those lists out....Is it just an opinion thing or do they go by numbers somehow. I wonder because I find those lists terrible. Hearns and Jackson are much too low. I'm not too sure at all about Louis as number one. Then you have guys like Duran, Briscoe, Hagler etc higher than fighters like Trinidad, Rosario, etc and none of them were huge one punch KO artists. Duran at lightweight was a nightmare but a lot of it was still wear-'em-down and then land a big one punch KO or just beat them down with great body punching, amazing stamina and ferocity rather than simple, brute power. Hagler was much the same. He wore fighters down with his hard jab and accurate counter punching and would bust them up then end the fight later. Briscoe was also similar. He would get inside, break a fighter down to the body and then just sit on them until they wore out. Compare to guys like Trinidad, who would win fights on his power alone. When the power didn't work, he wouldn't always win. Cuevas is another one. If he couldn't bang a guy out and the other fighter could outbox him he would probably lose. Very few were able to take that power though. Man, he had one hell of a left hook! It's mostly about the quality of opposition that you've knocked out. Raw power, finishing ability and punching technique are of course all things that have been taken into consideration.

@ BennyST did u watch lennox vs tua? lennox was 7" taller and had also big physical advantages over tua, but that didnt stop him from dancing around tua all night. i dont see users creating threads about how boring LL was. Not anymore when he's gone. You don't think Lewis caught criticism from some of his less than exciting performances?

Probably. Here's Ring Magazine's top 50 punchers: 1. Joe Louis 2. Sam Langford 3. Jimmy Wilde 4. Archie Moore 5. Sandy Saddler 6. Stanley Ketchell 7. Jack Dempsey 8. Bob Fitzsimmons 9. George Foreman 10. Earnie Shavers 11. Sugar Ray Robinson 12. Ruben Olivares 13. Wilfredo Gomez 14. Rocky Marciano 15. Sonny Liston 16. Mike Tyson 17. Bob Foster 18. Thomas Hearns 19. Khaosai Galaxy 20. Alexis Arguello 21. Carlos Zarate 22. Max Baer 23. Rocky Graziano 24. Matthew Saad Muhammad 25. Julian Jackson 26. Danny Lopez 27. Gerald McClellan 28. Roberto Duran 29. Rodrigo Valdez 30. Felix Trinidad 31. Pipino Cuevas 32. Jim Jefferies 33. Lennox Lewis 34. Bennie Briscoe 35. Marvin Hagler 36. Edwin Rosario 37. Tommy Ryan 38. John Mugabi 39. Joe Frazier 40. Carlos Monzon 41. Tony Zale 42. Michael Spinks 43. Joe Gans 44. Elmer Ray 45. George Godfrey 46. Naseem Hamed 47. Alfonso Zamora 48. David Tua 49. Cleveland Williams 50. Julio Cesar Chavez Sandy Saddler could be a bore, Lewis could at times but Wladimir has been the least exciting for the past 3-4 years. I enjoy watching his earlier fights though and appreciate his effectiveness, but fights like Wladimir vs Ibragimov, Chagaev, Rahman aren't ones that I'll be reviewing any time soon. I've always wondered how they work those lists out....Is it just an opinion thing or do they go by numbers somehow. I wonder because I find those lists terrible. Hearns and Jackson are much too low. I'm not too sure at all about Louis as number one. Then you have guys like Duran, Briscoe, Hagler etc higher than fighters like Trinidad, Rosario, etc and none of them were huge one punch KO artists. Duran at lightweight was a nightmare but a lot of it was still wear-'em-down and then land a big one punch KO or just beat them down with great body punching, amazing stamina and ferocity rather than simple, brute power. Hagler was much the same. He wore fighters down with his hard jab and accurate counter punching and would bust them up then end the fight later. Briscoe was also similar. He would get inside, break a fighter down to the body and then just sit on them until they wore out. Compare to guys like Trinidad, who would win fights on his power alone. When the power didn't work, he wouldn't always win. Cuevas is another one. If he couldn't bang a guy out and the other fighter could outbox him he would probably lose. Very few were able to take that power though. Man, he had one hell of a left hook!

@ BennyST did u watch lennox vs tua? lennox was 7" taller and had also big physical advantages over tua, but that didnt stop him from dancing around tua all night. i dont see users creating threads about how boring LL was.

I certianly understand what you're saying. Vs Thompson, Brock, Chagaev, Rahman had alot of tentitive moments where he could have pressed the action and didn't. He uses his attributes and doesn't take unessecary risks. But fighter like Winky or Hopkins are similarily boring, don't end their fights with Brutal Brock or Thompson like KO's yet seem to have no problem getting supporters. They have their "technical" qualities admired not criticized like Volodymyr. Another thing is people either have short memories or never watched Volodymyr pre-Byrd II. Before hooking up with steward he was exactly what you are saying you wish he was, a destroyer with killer instinct. Watch him vs Mercer, Botha, Jefferson, Barrett. He was aggressive and also was very good fighting on the inside. Watch the Jefferson and Shufford KO's. I prefer his pre Steward style from an entertainment standpoint but i do think alot of the criticism for his technical style is is hypocritical and over the top from alot of people. I do agree with you, but I also agree with Jab. I think for a guy that has such power and such a dominant physical presence over his opponents, he fights like someone that is smaller and doesn't have much power at all. It's the kind of thing in which you might ask yourself "Would Malignaggi fight the way he does if he possessed more power than everyone in his division?" I don't know if he would. I doubt it, but even he's been in more exciting fights than Wlad. It's just his style though and he wins very well with it. The difference between these guys is that Wright and Hopkins didn't have such huge physical advantages nor were they big punchers. In Winky's case, he was very weak in fact but still often got into a brawl and never shied away from a fight. He won his fights with what he had though, and that was a great jab, skills, and little power. Still, I think, as usual, many people are misconstruing what Jab is trying to ask. He is not saying Wlad is shit. He is saying that for a guy with such incredible power and being the best of his era at HW, is there anyone that knocks his opponents in a more boring fashion? I think it's perfectly valid argument. When you think of guys with the KO ratio of Wlad, you think of non stop aggressive animals that just wade in and brawl looking for the KO with every shot. Pavlik-esque type fighter or Margarito etc. Wlad is the complete opposite though and if nothing else it makes for an interesting comparison, which was the point of this thread. Stop taking it so personally. Geeeeez... Anyway, to answer the question Jab....No. Edit: Just on another point, I think a lot of the criticism on the technical aspect of his game is that while he is a good fighter, he is also very awkward to watch. A guy like Hopkins is beautiful to watch from a purely technical view, even if he is boring. He is like poetry in motion in terms of boxing, whereas Wlad is all flailing limbs and looks uncoordinated, though he isn't of course. That alone, for me anyway, makes him difficult and a bit boring to watch. If I was going to watch a guy for his technical skill it would be someone that was great to watch in his movements, his fluidity, the precision and preciseness of all his movements.

I certianly understand what you're saying. Vs Thompson, Brock, Chagaev, Rahman had alot of tentitive moments where he could have pressed the action and didn't. He uses his attributes and doesn't take unessecary risks. But fighter like Winky or Hopkins are similarily boring, don't end their fights with Brutal Brock or Thompson like KO's yet seem to have no problem getting supporters. They have their "technical" qualities admired not criticized like Volodymyr. Another thing is people either have short memories or never watched Volodymyr pre-Byrd II. Before hooking up with steward he was exactly what you are saying you wish he was, a destroyer with killer instinct. Watch him vs Mercer, Botha, Jefferson, Barrett. He was aggressive and also was very good fighting on the inside. Watch the Jefferson and Shufford KO's. I prefer his pre Steward style from an entertainment standpoint but i do think alot of the criticism for his technical style is is hypocritical and over the top from alot of people. 9:10 The big difference with that though is Hops and Winky dont have one punch KO power. Vitali is exciting.

Wlad-Peter was a decent fight. I also agree about Valuev, but he isn't what I would call a ko puncher. Wlad is a great ko puncher, but for the life of me I really can't think of any other great puncher who brought less excitement to the table. i think u have an anversion to east european fighters. the ppl in usa were used to see black american fighters dominate the division, since tyson&holyfield left, there is not really a great hw from the us. the other great fighters like floyd get overshadowed by the political movement (pacquiao) of the philippines. wlad is the best thing happened to boxing, without him the hw division would be even more boring. it just makes fun to watch him destroy all those big mouth bums, i hope he fights david haye soon, so we can see a fight at eye level. its funny, back then the government could afford to bann a fighter like ali, i bet today they wouldnt. im just happy wladimir is not a filipino, they would have make a greek god out of him.

Probably. Here's Ring Magazine's top 50 punchers: 1. Joe Louis 2. Sam Langford 3. Jimmy Wilde 4. Archie Moore 5. Sandy Saddler 6. Stanley Ketchell 7. Jack Dempsey 8. Bob Fitzsimmons 9. George Foreman 10. Earnie Shavers 11. Sugar Ray Robinson 12. Ruben Olivares 13. Wilfredo Gomez 14. Rocky Marciano 15. Sonny Liston 16. Mike Tyson 17. Bob Foster 18. Thomas Hearns 19. Khaosai Galaxy 20. Alexis Arguello 21. Carlos Zarate 22. Max Baer 23. Rocky Graziano 24. Matthew Saad Muhammad 25. Julian Jackson 26. Danny Lopez 27. Gerald McClellan 28. Roberto Duran 29. Rodrigo Valdez 30. Felix Trinidad 31. Pipino Cuevas 32. Jim Jefferies 33. Lennox Lewis 34. Bennie Briscoe 35. Marvin Hagler 36. Edwin Rosario 37. Tommy Ryan 38. John Mugabi 39. Joe Frazier 40. Carlos Monzon 41. Tony Zale 42. Michael Spinks 43. Joe Gans 44. Elmer Ray 45. George Godfrey 46. Naseem Hamed 47. Alfonso Zamora 48. David Tua 49. Cleveland Williams 50. Julio Cesar Chavez Sandy Saddler could be a bore, Lewis could at times but Wladimir has been the least exciting for the past 3-4 years. I enjoy watching his earlier fights though and appreciate his effectiveness, but fights like Wladimir vs Ibragimov, Chagaev, Rahman aren't ones that I'll be reviewing any time soon.

wlad vs sam peter was really entertaining, i dont think he is boring. valuev is what i call boring Wlad-Peter was a decent fight. I also agree about Valuev, but he isn't what I would call a ko puncher. Wlad is a great ko puncher, but for the life of me I really can't think of any other great puncher who brought less excitement to the table.

wlad vs sam peter was really entertaining, i dont think he is boring. valuev is what i call boring. edit : just watched some highlights of wlads fight vs peter again, after watching it, you will start to respect wladimirs punching power. i didnt saw something like that except in tyson, foreman fights... amazing that peter could take all those bombs, no wonder vitaly was able to stop peter after the punishment he took from his younger brother.

Of course, I call you out on your BS and I must be a nuthugger, typical :lol1: Tell me what I have said that is unrealistic in any way. I don't need to lie and say "I don't bash Wlad" when it's obvious that's what you did in your first post. What BS are you calling me out on? It certainly isn't my first post because we both know this is a terrible era. Probably the worst in heavyweight history. I haven't lied about nor bashed Wlad, I only spoke the truth. You on the other hand have not answered my question. Has their ever been a more boring ko artist than Wlad?

Lol, thats just brilliant! If I don't have a Klitschko testicle in my mouth I must be a hater. God bless the Klitschko's, dominating a division devoid of any talent. :hail: Of course, I call you out on your BS and I must be a nuthugger, typical :lol1: Tell me what I have said that is unrealistic in any way. I don't need to lie and say "I don't bash Wlad" when it's obvious that's what you did in your first post.

Vitali is, in my mind "the uncrowned champion" of the H/W division, were he and Wlad not brothers, Vitali would have taken him out by now. That said, Wladamir is the 2nd best fighter, and the reason a lot of his fights are "boring" is because his opponents don't come to fight, they come to spoil and be defensive and try to survive, if his opponents opened up and attacked the fights would be more exciting, than just watching Wlad tee off. Not Wlads fault, his opponents. I really like your point on the opponents, are the ones making a boring fight. Green k.