Pacquiao is not GOAT: Coming from a Pacfan

:bottle::bottle::bottle: care to give me your top 30 Yea sure no problem. Here it is... 1. Ray Robinson 2. Henry Armstrong 3. Harry Greb 4. Muhammad Ali 5. Joe Louis 6. Sam Langford 7. Willie Pep 8. Benny Leonard 9. Joe Gans 10. Jack Johnson 11. Ezzard Charles 12. Roberto Duran 13. Bob Fitzsimmons 14. Ray Leonard 15. Gene Tunney 16. Pernell Whitaker 17. Barney Ross 18. Jimmy Wilde 19. Julio Cesar Chavez 20. Archie Moore 21. Tony Canzoneri 22. Sandy Saddler 23. Mickey Walker 24. Jimmy McClarnin 25. Ike Williams 26. "Barbados" Joe Walcott 27. George Dixon 28. Manny Pacquiao 29. Salvador Sanchez 30. Jack Dempsey

you just lost your credibility. theres no point arguing with you about this Explain please?

because there are too many spoiled athletes today then theres no way we can have another robinson? :sleeping: The way the sport is done today compared to Robinsons days, no i doubt we could see someone with a career like Robinson. Fighters are spoiled and i dont think it would be medically allowed.

who gives a sht about that pacfan everybody who give a shit about boxing

Well, this is kind of a good example of what I'm talking about. When Pac fought Oscar he was the smaller guy but he was also the faster, younger, prime guy and he wasn't that much smaller. A fair bit but when the guy you're facing hasn't made the weight in a decade etc etc. In that fight though Duran was forty years old facing a guy at his peak that was a decade younger, at his best weight, stronger, fitter, but also a hell of a lot bigger. Duran was the same size as Pac and he fought a really big middleweight at his peak. It would similar to an old Pac facing someone like a young, prime Pavlik or something (though Barkley was much better than Pavlik, but you know what I mean). youre missing the point here. duran has had time to adjust his body to the middleweight class by consistently fighting enough fights at each division stops. the fact that pac has only fought once at 135 and hasnt even gone thru junior welterweight yet tells us that his feat DESTROYING hoya was in itself a feat that rivals (of probably even tops) that of durans besting barkley at 160. add to this the fact that it was pacs tenth weight class and it was only durans 9th weigh class. Unless of course jumping weight classes and destroying greats doesnt mean anything to you Also, Cotto is not even close to the biggest and strongest at 147. In fact, one reason they picked him was because he is the smallest WW champ, being the same size as Pac too. Both 5'6 1/2"-5'7" with the same reach. As for strength, yes, Cotto is strong but he got thrown around by Marg, shoved and backed up by Clottey and wouldn't have nearly the strength of Mosley who would be probably the strongest of the lot. Cotto as a big strong dude is a fallacy. He is a small WW and only has normal strength for a WW. He was very strong at 140 and an average size there (wasn't even big at 140) but not at 147. ill respect your opinion here but its bs imo Consider how Mosley tossed Margarito around like he did. Shoved him back, wrestled with him, pushed him around and backed him up etc. Marg did the opposite to Cotto. Used his strength and height to batter him. so because marg shoved cotto back and wrestled with him means hes bigger and stronger than cotto? going by that argument, then pac must be bigger than cotto and hoya. consider these points 1) cotto has fought the wrogn fight, allowing marg to come to him and dictate the fight, 2) marg has a solid whiskers and going flat footed with him is suicide 3) the plaster issue?

omg! when does this end?? maybe u should investigate other great boxers who are long dead, find out if their opponents are in their prime or not....its like accusing Pac of steroids while the other past greats are not...jezz give the man his due he deserves I have and do. I enjoy the sport of boxing. The whole history of it and I take every boxer as they are. I don't favour one because I like him more. As always though, you say one thing and people see something else. Like I said in the previous post, it isn't a dig at Pac. I do give him his due. I think he's probably the greatest of this era now. After the Cotto win it's very hard to suggest anyone else could be. What he has done is amazing. We are talking about every fighter that has ever fought though. This discussion is about Pacquiao being the GOAT. He is an ATG and one of the very best of our time, if not the best, but what he's done is not enough to consider him close to the GOAT.

hoya- pacs tenth weight class, coming in this fight, 95% of pacs fight was fought at sfw and below. 80% at superbantam and below hatton- pacs 9th weight class. lineal title cotto- pacs 10th weight class, a true welterweight champ. probably the biggest and strongest among the 147 guys four lineal titles, 7 titles all in a span of ten divisions barrera, hofer, 2x morales, hofer 2x jmm, hofer, 1-0-1 that doesnt count for something? maybe durans win over barkley at 160, which was durans 9th weight class, doesnt count for anything either? perhaps. it was an SD:thumbsdow Well, this is kind of a good example of what I'm talking about. When Pac fought Oscar he was the smaller guy but he was also the faster, younger, prime guy and he wasn't that much smaller. A fair bit but when the guy you're facing hasn't made the weight in a decade etc etc. In that fight though Duran was forty years old facing a guy at his peak that was a decade younger, at his best weight, stronger, fitter, but also a hell of a lot bigger. Duran was the same size as Pac and he fought a really big middleweight at his peak. It would similar to an old Pac facing someone like a young, prime Pavlik or something (though Barkley was much better than Pavlik, but you know what I mean). Also, Cotto is not even close to the biggest and strongest at 147. In fact, one reason they picked him was because he is the smallest WW champ, being the same size as Pac too. Both 5'6 1/2"-5'7" with the same reach. As for strength, yes, Cotto is strong but he got thrown around by Marg, shoved and backed up by Clottey and wouldn't have nearly the strength of Mosley who would be probably the strongest of the lot. Cotto as a big strong dude is a fallacy. He is a small WW and only has normal strength for a WW. He was very strong at 140 and an average size there (wasn't even big at 140) but not at 147. Consider how Mosley tossed Margarito around like he did. Shoved him back, wrestled with him, pushed him around and backed him up etc. Marg did the opposite to Cotto. Used his strength and height to batter him.

I think pac is somewhere in the top 25 on my list and can go much higher if he beats Mayweather. People must realize boxing goes back over a 100 years and there are so many divisions and to be top 50; let alone top 25 is a huge feat. Sugar Ray Leonard is not even top 10 in many people's all time list. Yet look at his resume vs Pac. Pac never gave Morales, DLH, Hatton, Barreras, Cotto their first defeat. Yet Sugar Ray Leonard was the first to beat Benitez, Hearns, Kalule. He also beat Duran when Duran was 72-1 and gave Hagler his first loss in 11 years. Look at the major height and reach advantage Lalonde had over SRL; yet leonard still won the LHW title. People kept sayin Cotto is much bigger than Pac but i told people in YT that they have almost same height and same reach. I am not taking away from Pac but putting things in perspective. In addition, there was no catchweights with SRL.

You cant possibly disagree can you? Do you seriously see a way for any fighter today to have the career Robinson had? Elaborate on your thoughts. Hopefully you are not retarded enough to put Pacquiao as GOAT. fighters today cannot just do a robinson's simply because there are more factors now to prevent it, like promoters, managers handlers and even those regulating bodies that can stop a fight because of so soon a time between each fights that can pose dangers to health of the fighters. fighters in the early years fights on regular basis even on monthly or weekly basis because thats their source of living and theyre basically the ones choosing their opponents, the more known opponents they fight the more rewards but not as lucrative as today, they take it on the number of fights they can get themselves into its prizefighting really. now i think i can call it bounty hunting, choose the ones with bigger bounty on their heads. but the system still works by the way but in the underground or in the small time arenas. young fighters amassed so many fights in their records because they fight frequently, thats the only way they can earn their wage.

You cant possibly disagree can you? Do you seriously see a way for any fighter today to have the career Robinson had? Elaborate on your thoughts. Hopefully you are not retarded enough to put Pacquiao as GOAT. because there are too many spoiled athletes today then theres no way we can have another robinson? :sleeping:

Yes top 30. And, that quite a compliment and a hell of an achievement. You know how many great fighters Pac ranks higher than my list? So don't act like I am insulting Pac. Especially since Pac is my favorite active fighters. :bottle::bottle::bottle: care to give me your top 30

Pac is not top 10. I don't even consider Duran top 10 Let alone top 5.. How can you say Pac is easily top 10? Show me your top 10 list right now please... you just lost your credibility. theres no point arguing with you about this

For me to put Pac top 5 ATG. He would have to beat Floyd, Clottey, Berto, Collazo, Shane @147, Martinez, Dzinziruk, Angulo, Cintron, Spinks P-Will, Foreman @ 154 for me to consider him top 5. I totally agree and that shit isn't happening.

If he beats Mayweather then he would be an ATG for me, If not his resume is questionable just like the others. No Pac is alreadly an ATG.

LOL...Floyd is bigger than Pac and he is not even thinking about stepping in the ring with any of those guys and you call him GOAT. PAC beat all those guys and he is only top 5 LOL. Show me when I called Floyd GOAT? Yes Pac beats all those he will be top 5. You have to add Pavlik at MW for the lineal for me to rank him top 3 ...

If he beats Mayweather then he would be an ATG for me, If not his resume is questionable just like the others. Questionable? hahaha Pacman has NO FEAR! he's fought everyone! Barrera, Marquez, Morrales, Diaz*, ODLH**, Hatton, Cotto All of which are future hall of famers (except for Diaz *). ODLH was old and shot **.

Nice try. Mayweather is already up there with Robbinson and Ali. His skills fool no one. He has faced the best his entire career unlike many haters claim based on his turn down of Margarito. He never LOST A SINGLE FIGHT and dominated EVERY SINGLE opponent he was in a ring with. 40-0 and all championship fights, no catchweights. Another mith was that Marquez was a catchweight. IT WAS ALWAYS A WELTERWEIGHT FIGHT, not a catchweight. Please do not insult Robinson and Ali like that...

:eek: top 30? Yes top 30. And, that quite a compliment and a hell of an achievement. You know how many great fighters Pac ranks higher than my list? So don't act like I am insulting Pac. Especially since Pac is my favorite active fighters.

given his resume, hes easily top ten. hes actually surpassed duran in certain feats. and duran was considered number 5 goat. i know its not fashionable to put pac highly on the atg list, but give due credit to the man. Pac is not top 10. I don't even consider Duran top 10 Let alone top 5.. How can you say Pac is easily top 10? Show me your top 10 list right now please...

:haha: wtf! pacman is not robot azzhole! and him doing that to be your top 5?:bsflag::thumbsdow Yes if he does all that he is only top 5. Where does Mosley is not in my top 100, Floyd is not in my top 50, and Martinez, P-Will, Foreman I don't consider great at all... He has to do way more than that to be considered top 5.