Better jab: Cotto or Mayweather???

they are different. Cotto's is stronger, since he is a converted southpaw and all. He has KD power in that jab. Mayweather's is faster by miles... and thus opponents don't see it coming. Or if they do, they don't have enough time to block/evade it. From a tactical standpoint, I would pick Mayweather's. From a brute force and power aspect, I would pick Cotto. Great point, I see it the same way.

Floyd jab is the more unpredictable. Now its to the body, now its feint the body and go for the head, now looks like a jab but he left hooks from the jab, setting up the opening because you try parry the jab and get hit from the left hook. Then, when you are there thinking about what will come next, he hits you with his straight right. The jab mayweather uses is multi dimensional and totally unpredictable, while Cotto hase a powerful jab but its always the same, and can be avoided with foot speed.

Cotto has the stronger jab and he uses it more than Floyd. Mayweathers jab is faster and more accurate. Mayweathers jab is a underated weapon in his arsenal.

Mayweather's jab is rivaled only by the Klitschko's.

Mayweather got the jab going due to Floyd Sr. Mayweather's jab was really good at 130, then all of a sudden he stopped. I gotta say Mayweather, Mayweather's jab is quicker and more accurate. Cotto's jab has more pop but the jab isn't used to hurt anyone. It's used to score and keep the opponent at a distance.

You make a good point when comparing their jabs to Judah . I guess Cotto did affect Judah with his jab usage more than Mayweather did.. But at the same time I think that Judah that fought Cotto wasn't the same slick Judah who fought Mayweather. And from what I remember Mayweather was using other effective techniques like lounging and pocket counter-punching rather than his jab. I don't know if the jab wasn't working or if he thought these other techniques worked better than jabbing. All i know though is that Mayweather can use his jab a lot better than Cotto can. Mayweather can be more effective with it if he uses it right or better yet if he decides to use it to his advantage. The thing about Mayweather is that he's so advanced that he has discovered other ways of being effective and better his counter-punching, and the jab usage is probably his last resort. If he does use his jab though, believe me Mayweather can be a problem. I still think logically Mayweather gives Pac more problems by jabbing and right countering than Cotto gave him. The fact that Pac has bigger problems with counter-punchers than power hitters adds to that opinion. I guess it goes down to personal preference and beliefs. Yea I went to bed right when you posted this but I was too tired to make sense in my reply. While I do agree that Manny will have more of a problem with Mayweather because of his style and skill as a counter puncher, I'm not so sure the jab will be more effective than Cotto's was, at least early on in the fight. What I mean by that is how much pressure Manny will apply to Mayweather, I don't think the jab will be the weapon that will keep Manny off of Mayweather its going to be the right hand. I'm sure he can set up his right with the jab, but it'll be used more to blind Manny than anything else. I also feel if Mayweather uses it too much Manny's right hook is every bit as good as his left now so he can't throw that jab constantly or it will start being timed. And while I do think Manny has bigger problems against counter punchers than a strong pressure fighter, the only proof of this is Marquez and Manny has increased tenfold since then. I firmly believe if you put this version of Manny in with Marquez we're looking at a KO within 8 rounds, if he even makes it out of the first. That was a very one dimensional and stationary Manny that fought both Marquez's the modern won has far better in-out movement, far better defense and has become a solid counterpuncher himself. The KO or Hatton and the 2nd Cotto knockdown were both great counter shots, in fact, the knockdown in the second Marquez fight was also a counter punch. That being said, I'm still not sure who wins between Manny/Mayweather, I need more time to really study both fighters before I make that call. I have 2 of Manny's fights, and 2 of Mayweathers on DVR but I'm gonna have to dig up some more online and to make a final decision. I'll also wait till at least the fight is official announced before I start digging up videos.

Ugh, people who can't have a simple debate without coming out with tedious, played out lines like "Floyd nuthugger" are getting very tiresome :rolleyes: , yes Floyd and Miguel's jabs are different I GET IT that's why i already explained that Cotto's jab is with his STRONGER HAND which is why it's more powerful, the difference is he hasn't got a straight right lurking like Floyd so the jab isn't as important to Floyd as it is to Cotto, and you talk about what would happen against Pac but somehow fail to mention Floyd's height and reach advantage? if Floyd isn't in range then "slipping it and throwing punches over it" is gonna be one hell of a task for little Manny, i don't believe he can get inside without taking shots. Hatton had a little success early getting inside against Floyd by being physical but Manny isn't a physical boxer. Not so sure about that. Pac was surprisingly able to muscle Hatton and Cotto in clinches.

Ugh, Floyd nuthuggers are nearly impossible to deal with. I didn't bring up the weight as a reason as to why Floyd's jab was unimpressive though its apparent you took it that way as anytime someone says they aren't impressed with something Floyd does its looked at as something HE does wrong. The weight is an issue in the movement of Marquez. If the guy is moving up two divisions and putting on about 12 pounds of muscle he's going to be slower, and in Marquez case, A LOT slower. As for the speed of the jab, read my post again. It has nothing to do with whose is even faster or stronger its the fact that they are used for completely polar opposite reasons, I'm not even saying Cotto's is better than Mayweathers but again people of your ilk ALWAYS take it that way, so let me put it as simple as I can. Floyd uses it to set up his counter punches and what little offensive he does. Cotto uses it to keep himself from counters (as he uses it to end some of his combo's) and he also uses it to keep his opponents from throwing combination's. Its also safe to say that the power makes the opponent think twice before coming in too quickly, however, as is the case with 99% of fighters if a guy can walk through your jab, if being used to keep them from overpowering you, it will fail miserably. (Cotto/Marg Malignaggi/Cotto) In the case of Manny/Floyd I see it being a combo of both, Manny walking through it and Manny slipping it/throwing punches over it because he's so fast. Ugh, people who can't have a simple debate without coming out with tedious, played out lines like "Floyd nuthugger" are getting very tiresome :rolleyes: , yes Floyd and Miguel's jabs are different I GET IT that's why i already explained that Cotto's jab is with his STRONGER HAND which is why it's more powerful, the difference is he hasn't got a straight right lurking like Floyd so the jab isn't as important to Floyd as it is to Cotto, and you talk about what would happen against Pac but somehow fail to mention Floyd's height and reach advantage? if Floyd isn't in range then "slipping it and throwing punches over it" is gonna be one hell of a task for little Manny, i don't believe he can get inside without taking shots. Hatton had a little success early getting inside against Floyd by being physical but Manny isn't a physical boxer.

Man...I think we're getting the wrong images in our minds here.. You said that Manny might be fast enough for Floyd's jab to get around it, and I like to believe that as well, but one thing that we know for sure is that Manny's kryptonite are counter pounchers. We can make that judgment just by seeing him against JMM. We just wintessed that power is not a problem for Manny and counter-punching is. We also know that Floyd is one sun of a gun when it comes to counterpunching and most of the time he will set up his traps by using the jab like you said and keeping his opponent at bay. He can even use his quick jab to score on his opponents, since he can't hurt them with it. I still think Floyd's jab can be more of a threat than Cotto's jab or any other fighter's stiff jab, to Pac Lets also Imagine a fight with Clottey vs Mayweather. We clearly saw that Cotto's jab didn not have an affect at all on Clottey. Clottey blocked all the face shots. Cotto's jab never worked for his advantage. His best weapon were the body shots and left hooks. He never used it to rack up points nor ever hurted clottey with the jab. Whenever Clottey wanted to land, he would explode and not think twice about Cotto's threat of a jab. Now imagine what fighter like Mayweather would done to use his jab to his advantage. He would have scored on clottey with his jab all night and set him up for counter rights. I know that I'm making assumptions here, but I'm looking at it logically. A fast, accurate, consistent jab >>>(bigger threat/affect)>>> Strong, stiff, slow jab And I can prove you wrong on so many levels with that. It just depends on who the opponent is and how the jab is used. Its safe to say that the jab wasn't much of a weapon in Floyds fight with Castillo, the first one. Cotto used his jab quite a bit against Margarito and he walked through it and that was consistent, powerful AND accurate. Hell, we can bring up Malignaggi vs Cotto and that argument is thrown out the window again. Also I'm not saying Cotto's IS in fact better than Mayweather's, its the entire reason I keep bringing up how its used tactically and against the type of fighter its used on. Clottey has a granite chin, as did Margarito and it was apparent Cotto's jab didn't do jack to either of them. But against Mosley whose chin is just as strong as either guys, and even Judah who didn't have a KO loss until the Cotto fight it worked wonders on both of the those guys. Mayweather hasn't fought nearly the competition that Cotto has ESPECIALLY in the WW division and I fail to see in ANY situation where Mayweathers would have been more affective against Margarito, Clottey or even Mosley. The countering/movement/defense may very well have lead Mayweather to a victory, but I don't see him jab being more effective than Cotto's on Mosley and certainly not do better against Marg or Clottey. It all comes back to styles make fights which is why I compared the jabs to fighters both men have fought and Cotto's jab against Judah was more effective than Mayweathers. Does that make it better overall, I don't know, but comparing opponent to opponent in that sole situation it was.

Well clearly you wasn't gonna be impressed with Floyd no matter what he did because you can't see past the weight issue :rolleyes: , the bottom line is Floyd's jab was MUCH FASTER than Cotto's ever was against Pac and that can make all the difference, if Floyd stops Pac's rhythm with his so called "weak jab" then that's half the job done, and if he follows the jab with a big straight right that could settle the argument altogether, no-ones saying Floyd is gonna knock Pac out with his jab, all i'm saying is a jab with speed is much more harder to deal with. Ugh, Floyd nuthuggers are nearly impossible to deal with. I didn't bring up the weight as a reason as to why Floyd's jab was unimpressive though its apparent you took it that way as anytime someone says they aren't impressed with something Floyd does its looked at as something HE does wrong. The weight is an issue in the movement of Marquez. If the guy is moving up two divisions and putting on about 12 pounds of muscle he's going to be slower, and in Marquez case, A LOT slower. As for the speed of the jab, read my post again. It has nothing to do with whose is even faster or stronger its the fact that they are used for completely polar opposite reasons, I'm not even saying Cotto's is better than Mayweathers but again people of your ilk ALWAYS take it that way, so let me put it as simple as I can. Floyd uses it to set up his counter punches and what little offensive he does. Cotto uses it to keep himself from counters (as he uses it to end some of his combo's) and he also uses it to keep his opponents from throwing combination's. Its also safe to say that the power makes the opponent think twice before coming in too quickly, however, as is the case with 99% of fighters if a guy can walk through your jab, if being used to keep them from overpowering you, it will fail miserably. (Cotto/Marg Malignaggi/Cotto) In the case of Manny/Floyd I see it being a combo of both, Manny walking through it and Manny slipping it/throwing punches over it because he's so fast.

3 x 10 jabs from floyd will make Pac laugh so hard he'll think floyd must be joking. 1 jab from Pac will make floyd sleep and when he wakes up he'll regret why he did not run all night. Floyd is also not a complete fighter, that's delusional! How can someone be complete if FLOYD'S GOT NO BALLS!

Yes JMM is stationay but did that stop him from landing on Pac in both fights? so just imagine what a man like Floyd who jabs and moves around the ring can do? Pac may have been able to walk through Cotto's jab but that was more to do with Cotto losing his discipline imo, if Mayweather is landing his jab he'll work off that and frustrate Pac i believe, then when Pac lunges in (and he always does) a sharp counter will most likely be waiting for him, i simply can't see Manny winning a jabbing contest with Floyd, especially when you consider Floyd's reach and height advantage. Marquez fought 2 completely different styles against Floyd and Pac so that argument is pretty moot. I do believe however that If Pacquiao were to be frustrated against Mayweather it wouldnt be just from floyd's jabs landing. It would be from Mayweather being able to land the jab at different rates. Kinda like a pitcher throwing a few fastballs to set up the curveball.

cotto got a more powerful jab pbf got a quicker and more precise jab...

Are you serious? Obviously the jab is stronger than Mayweathers because he is left handed and fights orthodox stop making it out to be like we are hating Mayweather. He has the weaker jab, period. In fact, I'm not sure if anything Mayweather throws is as hard as Cotto's jab to be quite honest. Yea, Mayweather had a good jab against Marquez but lets be real, when a guy moves up two weight classes, is forced to completely learn the opposite style of fight from what he's done his entire career, and doesn't have the great defense even when he fights defensively a jab is going to look perfect. I'm far more impressed with Cotto's jab against Paq than I ever was about ANYTHING Mayweather did to Marquez. That was like putting in a dairy cow in with a Matador it was apparent what was going to happen. Well clearly you wasn't gonna be impressed with Floyd no matter what he did because you can't see past the weight issue :rolleyes: , the bottom line is Floyd's jab was MUCH FASTER than Cotto's ever was against Pac and that can make all the difference, if Floyd stops Pac's rhythm with his so called "weak jab" then that's half the job done, and if he follows the jab with a big straight right that could settle the argument altogether, no-ones saying Floyd is gonna knock Pac out with his jab, all i'm saying is a jab with speed is much more harder to deal with.

If we went by the ideology "that they haven't fought yet" we might as well throw this whole thread out of the window because everyone is makingassumptions regarding floyd's jab vs Cotto's While Cotto snapped Pac's head a few times, it didn't affect him much because it was too slow and Pac started to get around it with no problems. It was certainly not holding Pac back. Now what I'm saying is that, we all know how precisely and often Mayweather throws his fast jab which creates problems for every fighter he fought until now. He will throw a jab to keep you off distance and move out. I call that being affective and throwing a fighter's offensive plan out of the window. So now try and make sense of this: Cotto's jabs snap their opponent's heads back and might have KO power but they're easy to get around of(for Pac at least) Floyd's jabs are very hard to get around of because they're very often thrown and very accurate and fast. Up to today he has given every fighter he has fought problems with his jab(keeping them off him and stuff, setting them up for a counterpunch etc..) Do you still think a strong Jab will give Pac problems? or a more faster, consistent, accurate jab which can set him up for straight rights all night? I like to believe that he will be bothered a lot more by Mayweather's jab than he was from Cotto's jab because I believe that it will be more harder for him to adjust to floyd's jab's and positioning See you're doing it again though. You're saying Cotto's jab has done nothing while Floyds has done everything for him. Is it because Floyd is undefeated or because he simply fights more defensively. Cotto's jab is the reason he beat Judah and Mosley, period. Again its not because its slower/stronger they use it for completely different tactical advantages. Cotto uses it to offset movement of the opponent and disrupt their timing. He tried this against Marg, btut he was able to walk through it. Mayweather uses it to set up different punches, his opponents keep walking him down and he pops the jab to keep them at bay and when they start thinking jab Mayweather throws the right. They are opposites from the outset, so obviously the best assumption we can use is how it worked on their opponents, of which, they don't have many in common. You also mention that every fighter has had a problem with Mayweathers jab. Thats very true, but its the same for Cotto sans Margarito and only to an extent Pacman, and both for very different reasons. Margarito simply kept coming forward and Manny was being tagged with it early, and until the knockdown it worked perfect, after that Cotto abandoned it. The problem I see for Mayweather is that his jab is too weak to keep Manny from being hurt by it (which is true for every Mayweather opponent) but what makes it worse is Manny may be too fast for even Mayweathers jab and he was too fast for Cotto's. As we say in the first few rounds of the Manny fight, Cottos jab was doing as it always had and did against Judah/Mosley. It kept him from being able to use his in/out movement and limited what speed advantage he did have. In the second we say Cotto almost abandon it and it was a round Manny clearly won. However, in the third and fourth rounds aside from the knockdowns Manny wasn't all that impressive because again Cotto was working behind his jab and it was the POWER of the jab that kept Manny from doing what he did the rest of the fight. So again, its difficult to compare them for the simple reason that they are used in completely different tactical situations.

I like to believe that he will be bothered a lot more by Mayweather's jab than he was from Cotto's jab because I believe that it will be more harder for him to adjust to floyd's jab's and positioning mayweather can hit pac as many times as he want!lol 3 jabs = 1 jab of pac.LMAO

But Marquez was a stationary target with very little head movement against Floyd. And as effective as Cotto was with his jab Pac walked right through it. Yes JMM is stationay but did that stop him from landing on Pac in both fights? so just imagine what a man like Floyd who jabs and moves around the ring can do? Pac may have been able to walk through Cotto's jab but that was more to do with Cotto losing his discipline imo, if Mayweather is landing his jab he'll work off that and frustrate Pac i believe, then when Pac lunges in (and he always does) a sharp counter will most likely be waiting for him, i simply can't see Manny winning a jabbing contest with Floyd, especially when you consider Floyd's reach and height advantage.

People are saying "Cotto's jab is stronger" but isn't that because he's actually left handed right? so of course if you're using your power hand to jab it's gonna be stronger, but imo Mayweather's jab was class against JMM, he popped it to the body and chin all night with great accuracy and speed, and when you consider the successes that Cotto had against Pac stemmed from him being patient and using his jab then things look good for Floyd. Are you serious? Obviously the jab is stronger than Mayweathers because he is left handed and fights orthodox stop making it out to be like we are hating Mayweather. He has the weaker jab, period. In fact, I'm not sure if anything Mayweather throws is as hard as Cotto's jab to be quite honest. Yea, Mayweather had a good jab against Marquez but lets be real, when a guy moves up two weight classes, is forced to completely learn the opposite style of fight from what he's done his entire career, and doesn't have the great defense even when he fights defensively a jab is going to look perfect. I'm far more impressed with Cotto's jab against Paq than I ever was about ANYTHING Mayweather did to Marquez. That was like putting in a dairy cow in with a Matador it was apparent what was going to happen.

Actually I noticed Cotto throw several right crosses throughout the fight. None of them landed. Anytime he tried Pac was able to counter it. I think Cotto was just as effective with the uppercut against Pac as Pac was against him. pretty much nothing cotto threw was effective unless pac was laying on the ropes. i just think that left was wasted just throwing jabs. his right wasn't really doing any damage. use the right cross as your jab and have the hook ready for when manny comes in. i'm in the minority (for some reason everyone thinks cotto should have jabbed more even though i think he tried but just didn't accomplish anything with it)

Nah man Cotto probably hit Manny a total of 5 good jabs which snapped his head back and that was because Manny walked into them when he was going for the kill and trying to finish Cotto. Basically those were counter-punching jabs which caught manny coming in, and it would have snapped anyone's head back. I doubt Manny would walk into Mayweather's jabs like that, unless he gets really desperate. In that case he will suffer head snaps again...but I very much doubt Many would fight Mayweather like that. He is probably going to break him down first and then go for the kill. Since Mayweather doesn't have any dangerous power behind his jabs, he can hit Manny as many times as he want while Manny's coming in for the killshot I really can't fathom this assumption that "Manny will walk through this..and Manny will walk through that", imo if Floyd hits him accurately enough Pac will hit the deck, he took some big shots against Cotto but none of them were punches where i thought "how the fvck did Pac stay up from that", imo they were straight forward punches Manny saw coming, but the punches he doesn't see coming are the one's that will do the most damage and i believe Floyd's got that in his arsenal, you only have to look at the punch he put JMM down with.