is vitali best HW ever for judging and controlling distance?

Lewis was in awful shape for Vitali, I don't see how anyone can dispute this. He said he was in great shape for the first Rahman fight as well, when he had spent his time filming a movie instead of training and it showed in his performance.

Wladimir is better in my opinion.

Quality also makes a difference. Tua looks great VS some guys and looks terrible VS Lewis. Vitali does come in great shape which I love about him and his brother. The other boxers in the heavyweight divison don't come in as if they are broke even if they are. Fighters like Fraizer would train their ass off. Vitali is a good fighter that I respect. He has a different style, and it's not really fundamentally sound, but it does a good job for him. He uses his size well, if he was smaller, then he wouldn't be so hard to hit and with the way he fights, he would get tagged. To me, a fighter of equal size and weight would be easier to judge if he had the ability to control distance without the fact that he is 6 foot 7 and 245+ pounds etc... for example Cotto isn't that big a guy but can judge distance pretty well. He gets tagged by bigger guys in terms of reach and height, and sometimes speed, but he's pretty good now that he has developed. Mayweather is another that judges distance great. He has wonderful boxing eyes.

the same lewis who got knocked out by rahman and mccall? i dont think vitali would have had any trouble with either of them. lewis was suscepible to complacency, vitali isnt. That complacentcy was his downfall, not his ability to judge distance. That old Lewis did make Vitali look like his skin was made out of potatoe.

Um... Muhammad Ali? He was quicker and better at it, and it wasn't as easy because he wasn't 6 foot freaking 8. Don't be fooled by his fights after getting out of prison, in his prime Ali did nothing but dance around his opponents and rarely get touched.

i think finally people are realising that despite a slightly awkward looking style and stance he's a master at judging and controlling range, distance and perimeter how many HWs past or present can/could get away without a high guard against renowned punchers and never be in trouble simply through the abilty to eliminate their danger through clever movement, jabs and footwork best ever???? no... just no.

i agree, if vitali was american or even british he would be hyped as the best HW ever i'm not saying he is the best ever, but he'd give any HW in history a fuucking good fight, as would lewis who i also think is underrated due to his stupid losses against rahman and mccall, which he avenged admittedly. i personally dont think vitali would have ever got beat by rahman or mccall. as the guy on US tv said (larry marchant?) vitali is one of those rare breed - a 365 fighter - always in shape, never partying, always training never letting himself get complacent just in case a fight appears on the horizon - ultimate sportsman again, i would agree with u. i think lewis and vitali would be able to beat any fighter in history of boxing. sure, they could lose also. but i doubt they would lose 3 out of 3 to any heavyweight ever. so, that does a lot for an alltime rating IMO. i dont officially have one, but i would say that the brothers and lewis could handle themselves with relative ease i any decade and become champs. and i dislike lewis a lot, but i give credit whee it is due. these 3 are super heavyweights in every sense of the word.

anways, this thread is about controlling distance and ring generalship. i start counting from the pre-fight staring, and base it in rounds of 2, or somethimes round by round if it is a crazy fight. so, this argument is not about LL. it is about how the boxing fans feel about VK's ring generalship, timing, and use of his body to fight with. and me, personally, i have seen him look pretty much unbeatable using his unorthodox skills. i think most people would be more on-board if he were an american or african american. it seems like there is more a problem having a light skinned champion, especially in the heavyweight division. i agree, if vitali was american or even british he would be hyped as the best HW ever i'm not saying he is the best ever, but he'd give any HW in history a fuucking good fight, as would lewis who i also think is underrated due to his stupid losses against rahman and mccall, which he avenged admittedly. i personally dont think vitali would have ever got beat by rahman or mccall. as the guy on US tv said (larry marchant?) vitali is one of those rare breed - a 365 fighter - always in shape, never partying, always training never letting himself get complacent just in case a fight appears on the horizon - ultimate sportsman

none of those fighters controlled distance like vitali. ali was a master at counter punching and deception and had fast hands but didnt control his perimeter like vitali does, mostly due to his lack of reach and bulk. only comparable fighter he fought was foreman and foreman was one-dimensional, tough and strong as they come but one-dimensional with no variety. holmes was a good traditional HW and liston was a vicious monster but neither was a strategic dominator vitali beats all three imo agreed. and i had a weird almost double post that wasnt appearing until i entered another comment. weird!

he looked fat to me this is not about whether he was fat or not. topic is: does vitali have a top 5 ring generalship, use of range, angles, tactics, and dominant ring performance?

anways, this thread is about controlling distance and ring generalship. i start counting from the pre-fight staring, and base it in rounds of 2, or somethimes round by round if it is a crazy fight. so, this argument is not about LL. it is about how the boxing fans feel about VK's ring generalship, timing, and use of his body to fight with. and me, personally, i have seen him look pretty much unbeatable using his unorthodox skills. i think most people would be more on-board if he were an american or african american. it seems like there is more a problem having a light skinned champion, especially in the heavyweight division.

larry holmes and ali also sonny liston..and those guys had to fight killers ..those guys were good and in shape and fought 15 rounds.... fraizer forema lyle liston ali and holmes would all beat vitali or wlad none of those fighters controlled distance like vitali. ali was a master at counter punching and deception and had fast hands but didnt control his perimeter like vitali does, mostly due to his lack of reach and bulk. only comparable fighter he fought was foreman and foreman was one-dimensional, tough and strong as they come but one-dimensional with no variety. holmes was a good traditional HW and liston was a vicious monster but neither was a strategic dominator vitali beats all three imo

10 lbs doesnt mean that much in heavyweights. i know it never affected my movement and i am not even a heavyweight. and, usually the bigger heavier fighter, the more lbs's that the other fighter adds on. usually, when people think fighters are "in shape" it is because of dehydration. whether lewis was in shape or not, doesnt mean that he couldnt fight. he obviously had a training camp. so i doubt that he was not "ready" to fight. i also doubt there would have been a huge difference had he been 5 or 10 lbs lighter. that is specualtion at the most.

....Lewis was in tip top shape according to Emmanuel Steward. All the talk about Lewis being unprepared and out of shape is utter nonsense. he looked fat to me

i think finally people are realising that despite a slightly awkward looking style and stance he's a master at judging and controlling range, distance and perimeter how many HWs past or present can/could get away without a high guard against renowned punchers and never be in trouble simply through the abilty to eliminate their danger through clever movement, jabs and footwork larry holmes and ali also sonny liston..and those guys had to fight killers ..those guys were good and in shape and fought 15 rounds.... fraizer forema lyle liston ali and holmes would all beat vitali or wlad

i always say this, u cant make excuses before going into the ring. unless you are a very very poor sportsman, or just an idiot. i dont make excuses for wladimir when he lost to sanders. he lost cause he was stupid and got caught up with some chick. but, that is not really an excuse. it contributed to him losing. and he let the problem influence him. and, also by taking the opponent lightly - which you should never do, especially with a hard-as-f#ck hitting guy who had nothing to lose. so, saying lewis was out of shape has no bearing on how well lewis performed because his shape was included as part of his training. i dont buy into that as an excuse as to why vitali looked as good as he did outboxing the champ. vitali was facing a much lower ranked fighter btw. so, had they both trained for eachother, only imaginations can calculate the outcome. besides, do people really think lewis is that much more elite? these people must have never seen vitali fight before than or since. ....Lewis was in tip top shape according to Emmanuel Steward. All the talk about Lewis being unprepared and out of shape is utter nonsense.

i always say this, u cant make excuses before going into the ring. unless you are a very very poor sportsman, or just an idiot. i dont make excuses for wladimir when he lost to sanders. he lost cause he was stupid and got caught up with some chick. but, that is not really an excuse. it contributed to him losing. and he let the problem influence him. and, also by taking the opponent lightly - which you should never do, especially with a hard-as-f#ck hitting guy who had nothing to lose. so, saying lewis was out of shape has no bearing on how well lewis performed because his shape was included as part of his training. i dont buy into that as an excuse as to why vitali looked as good as he did outboxing the champ. vitali was facing a much lower ranked fighter btw. so, had they both trained for eachother, only imaginations can calculate the outcome. besides, do people really think lewis is that much more elite? these people must have never seen vitali fight before than or since.

no, he's bigger and stronger than anyone else in his division, he's fundamentally sound. with this he can beat all the other fatties with no head movement with ease. He already lost to a terrible looking version of Lewis. End of. or another way of looking at it is he was winning on points against the HW champ (a very formidable champ) in a fight he took at short notice and with very little experience of fighting anyone of a similar size i like lewis, think he was a brilliant fighter to be honest, but vitali now is older than lewis was when he fought him and vitali is quite possibly better now than he ever has been. lewis was never really in a war so he was never an age-ravaged fighter if that makes sense. some fighters show their age because they get hit a lot, vitali and lewis very rarely got or get hit

yeah me too, can remember exactly where i was, was like a HW version of gatti v ward, very rare you see a slug fest between two HWs, because usually a decent dig off a handy HW is curtains for the recipient. for once lennox wasnt susceptible to a random KO because he was fully aware of the fact he was in the ring with someone who could murder him if he wasnt careful. let's not forget this was the fight with the heaviest overrall weight for a boxing match ever at the time (valuev has skewed these figures since and probably williams v vitali too) and both men didnt touch the deck once legendary fight and one i'll watch forever yes! exactly. i mean, damn! toe to toe mostly every minute of every round between 2 big punchers and 2 guys who both severely wanted to win. it seemed like lewis already hated the K bros as he didnt give vitali his mandatory due even after 1.5 or more years as number 1. and vitali eagerly wanted to get his due and felt lewis was sidetracking him(which i agree with.) and yeah, remember the fans in the staples center after every round? damn! that dont happen that often in boxing - a sold out stadium, the stadium getting sold out upon the upgrading of the fight, and the fans being so loud at the end of the fight. i mean, that renewed boxing in a big way. if lewis would have granted a rematch, it probably would have been the biggest fight in recent memory.

i think finally people are realising that despite a slightly awkward looking style and stance he's a master at judging and controlling range, distance and perimeter how many HWs past or present can/could get away without a high guard against renowned punchers and never be in trouble simply through the abilty to eliminate their danger through clever movement, jabs and footwork no, he's bigger and stronger than anyone else in his division, he's fundamentally sound. with this he can beat all the other fatties with no head movement with ease. He already lost to a terrible looking version of Lewis. End of.