Mayweather vs Sugar Ray Leonard??

Leonard would outwork Mayweather.

Leonard by UD. He got a really good combinations. But this will be a close fight though.

I was kidding about the challenge. It aint that serious. This is a boxing forum with guys im sure that can whip some ass. Im not trying to go there when i just play basketball to stay in shape and do some boxing drills to stay fit. You made a great point when you said if Ray came out aftr Mayweather he could sit back and box him using the jab and counter when maywether came in, as Maywether would have to step in, to land. My main point is Floyd would give Ray a tough fight. Yes i've said he would win but if Ray fought the right style yea he could win easy, but if he fights over aggressive like against Kalule he could put himself in position to get down on the scorecards and Floyd could end up winning a decision. Now if Ray uses the style similair to Oscar by pumping that jab and bouncing back something Oscar didn't do consistently then Floyd is in trouble. Combinations are cool but Oscar would just throw them all out of control. Ray has quick feet so he can jab, occassional combo and bounce back and use that reach. Force Floyd to come forward and reach which would put him in position to get nailed. This would make Floyd come forward and then Ray can counter and if he connects Floyd could be in major trouble. I agree Sometimes Ray got over aggressive against fighters he felt he could over power. Ray82 what your saying is exactly what made Leonard a all time great. Vs Benetiz, he went flat footed, did not become over aggressive vs a fighter that was considered at the time to be the best counterboxer in boxing. Look at how he ate up Palimini off the ropes. Used his jab, and made Benetiz become more of a front runner and ray was able to be the aggressor and counter puncher, and also establishing a pace that was favorable to him. Also look at how Benetiz was the one consistentlly being pushed backwards by his jab and rays ring generalship. Mayweather would be able to beat Benetiz Imo in a very very very tough fight, simply because he is quicker than Benetiz, but it would be a very tough fight. Vs Hearns. You target Ray for this fight. This is a all time great accomplishment. I am not being rude her just saying, You leave out Tommy was extremely dominant, peak and in top shape, undefeated at Welter. Some say his jaw was shot, I beg to differ. He had never been dropped, never even been backed up. Leonard had terrifc ko power at Welter. Tommy simply should never lose at Welter. he had a great great jab, fast 78inch reach. Could hook or uppercut off the jab, tremendous right..in fact many consider it the best right hand ever at welter,anda great left hook or upper cut. In their fight it was Ray early on who established in a exchange He could handle Tommy's best shot, but hurt tommy. thus froom that time on, he became not a boxer, but he became the stalker....Tommy started boxing to avoid the power of Ray. What is left out is that Tommy was a great great boxer prev, and he used his jab 78 inch reach to stick and move..Ray simply did not let this beat him, and stalked and stalked him then took advantage (even pushing the referee out of the way) of the opportunity and stopped him. This is huge....Mayweather has never shown the ability to take or wage this type of fight. Willliams and margerito are both out there..Winky wright was out there...So even with Mayweather magnificent skills, he has not shown an ability or heart to stomach what he will have to do to fight this type of fight. Duran. This guy would literally own boxing today. You think pacman could fight, Duran technically and defensivly would eradicate pacman. Leoanrd did something stupid but it ended up career wise to be the best thing ever. He went toe to toe with Duran. No movement nothing. Duran dominated THE FIRST FOUR ROUNDS. After that Leonard adjusted and actually won 7 of th final 11 rounds on 2 of the scorcards and the 3rd one had a bunch of even rounds. If you turn off the volume nd look at the fight, you will see that they both were landing and catching on equal terms through out that fight. What many factored into their scoring is that Leoanrd back was against the ropes, and this goes into effective aggression, cuz duran was the aggressor, but you want to talk about counter punching..leonard did some great counterpunching, in hard meaningful body punches and combinations that were both effective and hard. Leoanrd lost the battle but won the war. Now true leoanrd lost the mind game and Duran won that1st fight, but this is a fight mayweather first off would be smart enough to box and not go toe to toe but also he is not tough enough or have the ability to fight this type of fight. Trustme Hatton or Castillo combined are no Duran. Loook atall the issues he had with castillo. Duran 2. Hell this is exactlly the style that Mayweather always fights. Maybe leonard danced a bit more, but very economical, defensive. When Duran came in, leonard made him pay with counters... look at rounds 2-5-7...No this is not my favorite fight either. However, Duran came into this fight just as focused as before, just as in shape. You need to get his own autobiography how he himself says all that about cramps etc was false and made up by his hanger ons. he generally fought every 3-4 months, this time he had 5 months. A veteren of74 fights. So that is not a valid excuse either. We also saw the beginnings of Ray starting to sit down on his punches and land harder shots. round 7 he was humiliating Duran, look at when duran tried to pin him on the ropes..he got hit with a 4 -5 punch combo, and end up falling into the ropes swinging wildly. Round 8 leonard before Duran quit, hand landed some solid rights and lefts and was starting to take Duran apart. Duran then quit. Keep in mind Ray you dont just come out after Duran and ko him. Both Mayweather and leonard strategically took their opponents apart, then moved in,,,Leonard generally stopped them. Well not saying he was going to stop Duran, but you can see how the fight was turning very badly for duran. So keep in mind this fight was cut short in the midst of 2-3 straight rounds that Leoanrd won easily, and was starting to land bigger shots. Hagler.... Mayweather would never in his wildest dreams take a fight like this. Hagler was ONLY 32. He had not lost in 10 years. Stopped ever challenger he faced for his title except for Duran. Just stopped undefeated Mugabi, stopped hamsho.,, and the 3round classic beating of Hearns. Many try to say Hagler declined, hmm based on what. Mugabi wa 25-0 23 ko's..If they say their reason is that, and he was getting hit by mugabi, then what about his performance in 79 vs Antefermo, or 83 vs Duran... No Hagler may not have been truly truly ppeak, buthe was not far removed. Leonard never said Hagler slowed. He said he was at the mugabi fight, and saw Hagler getting OUTBOXED, by mugabi (not slow or slower)and leoanrd explicitly said he knew he could easily outbox Mugabi, thus he immediately called Mike Trainer. hagler was for 11 rounds getting outboxed by Duran in 83... So it was more or less the style that caused him issues. Now for slower. Again speed is relative and it can be made to look greater or worse. In hagler case. he likes to stalk and paw with the right hand and then land that left VERSUS FIGHTERS WHO ARE RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM. Guess what when your not right in front of him then these shorter crisper punches become longer sometimes wild punches that miss. Thus he looked faster vs Hearns, who was right in front of him, but slower looking vs Leoanrd who countered himm and then when hagler went to punch he was not there and punch looked very slow looping and missing. Keep in mind this was done by Ray focusing on Hagler have to step then punch.... Either way, Ray did aall time great thing that you and others leave out...He came out of retirement after only 1 fight in 5 years moved up 2 weight classes beating a undisputed all time great middleweight champion who had not lost in 10 years. Mayweather will not try to even fight the best at welter when he was active. So leonard has the style to fight whatever and has been successful doing it. I think he would employ what ever style necessary to beat Mayweather, and because of simple size and speed advantages orequal speed he has several styles he could us...and if he became overaggressive yes mayweather would catch him with some counters but there is nothing he could do, to keep leonardoff of him. Outside of more couunters being landed, the fight would end up just like it did vs Mayweather Sr. Ray would love to take a few counters in exchange for forcing a physicial action packed high paced fight, in which he would not tire...Thus that 5-2 defict Mayweather faced vs a peak dlh, then dlh tired..I wonder what exactly Mayweather would do vs a peak leonard. Stop and think about this for a sec..What could he do....

This is hilarious...I do sell Pharmaceuticals and work many times in the Sherman oaks area with Medtronic who have a partnership with to use our insulin in their insulin pumps..So Yes I am always out in Cali, and would love to test what I call your dental. PM me your info and we can do it. I still spar to, here in Houston at Legends ranch off of Sawdust road.....Take my son there. Now your a bit younger than I, as I played DB 84-87 (Tony berry real name)..Chck my credentials. Now for the Mayweather issue. I am glad your coming around. Yes Mayweather had tremendous skills. TREMENDOUS SKILLS. However, there is a reason he does not fight a strong, sizable Welter. He is the Welter wight king of the hill, but will not fight Welters, Hmmm. I will stop the insults, your correct, but you have to agree to apply some logic to your posts. If he has not fought a true great Welter, peak, natural welter, how can you even think he would beat one of the best. Lets just say Ray leoanrd comes out and goes after him, like he did hearns. What is Mayweather going to do. Ray has the foot speed to stay on top of him. Ray has the Jab which we saw Mayweather could not deal with DLH jab, and dlH was about as close to a great fighter above 135 as Mayweather faced, and you have to agree that DLh was shot at the time. Ray would simply have to take it to mayweather and be in shape. Before retirment Ray had a chin of granite, he never went down. He also was crafty enough to pin Mayweather and take it to him Honestly ray 82, Mayweather style is not suited for a Ray or a hearns, because he would have to come out of his shell, and his defensive posture and at some time become offensive. That opens you up, even the great mayweather. Sure Ray will miss a lot, but you came along after Ray fought so your looking at vid's of certain fights, Look at his chavarini fight, his geroldo fights, his andy price and green ko's. Then look at how he totally pulvarized a undefeated Mayweathr SR. Once again, stop and think. If Ray came out aftr Mayweather he could sit back and box him using the jab and counter when maywether came in, as Maywether would have to step in, to land. Since you know boxing you do know he stand on his back of his feet and roll and only when he has his opponent timed does he switch his stance and starts to lead more with his right. Do you honestly think he will stand in front of Ray Leonard and lean forward weight extended beyound parallel with his feet total disrespect for his opponents but they are overmatched so they can not make him pay. Ray has the speed power reach and smarts, to simply do what ever he wanted to. Now Mayweather atgain will not be easy to hit, but if Ray came out after him and made him fight, this could end early. Mayweather would have to exchange, and that would be a night mare for him. As for Roy, he is a all time top pound per pounder...defended vs legit light heavy's did not lose until he was boxing for 15 years and had to lose muscel weight rapidly. Beat 22 champions 19 world champions,,defended light heavy 12 times. Beat Toney and Hopkins...Roy could have fought dm, clottery, collins, Nunn. etc. He gets dinged for that. However unlike Mayweather he has wins vs true light heavy'sm true super middles true middles....Mayweather has not, has not unified anything.. Roy did, I was kidding about the challenge. It aint that serious. This is a boxing forum with guys im sure that can whip some ass. Im not trying to go there when i just play basketball to stay in shape and do some boxing drills to stay fit. You made a great point when you said if Ray came out aftr Mayweather he could sit back and box him using the jab and counter when maywether came in, as Maywether would have to step in, to land. My main point is Floyd would give Ray a tough fight. Yes i've said he would win but if Ray fought the right style yea he could win easy, but if he fights over aggressive like against Kalule he could put himself in position to get down on the scorecards and Floyd could end up winning a decision. Now if Ray uses the style similair to Oscar by pumping that jab and bouncing back something Oscar didn't do consistently then Floyd is in trouble. Combinations are cool but Oscar would just throw them all out of control. Ray has quick feet so he can jab, occassional combo and bounce back and use that reach. Force Floyd to come forward and reach which would put him in position to get nailed. This would make Floyd come forward and then Ray can counter and if he connects Floyd could be in major trouble. I agree Sometimes Ray got over aggressive against fighters he felt he could over power.

WPINK I will continue to debate without the insults. And without any reasonable argument to back you up. 1 on 1 if you would like we can hook up and spar and i'll buy you a beer afterwards. Played cornerback at UCLA/ KR/ PR from 1993-1997. Boxed part time. Not a professional fighter or bragging to be anything special but your talking sh**t. Bring it on. Im 6-3 220 still in great shape. If you kick my ass oh well. Buy you a beer. There is a boxing gym in Long Beach CA off Redondo. Im there all the time. Bring it on and stop the taking. Back to SRL. His career was cut to short to judge him. Now lets get to your point about Floyd fighting quality opponents at 147. You are absolutely correct Floyd has yet to face a top notch 147 pounder and i have complained about that in the past as well. Keep in mind im not even a Floyd fan. Im a die hard Roy Jones jr fan. Im just impressed with Floyd's skills level and give him props. His attitude annoys me. Id like to see him fight a Shane Mosley or a Miguel Cotto. I dont think there styles would give him problems but id like to see it. The style to beat Floyd is a long fighter in the 6-0, 6-1 range The "key" to beating Floyd is getting someone his own size and reach into the ring with him. Hasn't happened in a long, long time, and won't ever again, if he can prevent it. He'll never sign a Mosley fight, and probaly woulnd't sign Cotto, either, even if he beats Pacman (he'll claim the money isn't good enough and sign Pacman anyway). with reach and a great jab that doesn't over committ. Keep the jab in his face, but don't get to over aggressive early where your leaving yourself wide open. Pump the jab in his face, then take a step back and come back with another jab. Drop in a right and occasional combo then step back. This will have Floyd being the one having to apply pressure and if you use your size to your advantage you might land a big shot with Floyd coming in. Vernon Forrest of 2002 and Paul Williams are the styles to give him major trouble. I think Floyd is strong enough to compete with SRL despite not facing the elite of the WW class. That's my personel opinion. I think Floyd is that skilled of a fighter. Dude has mastered the shoulder roll technique that James Toney used and took it to another level with great counterpunch speed behind it. Genetics don't lie. Floyd is basically the same fighter as his father....maybe even not as tough as his daddy, though he is slightly slicker. Floyd Sr. had just as good handspeed as his boy, fought the same style as his boy (though maybe not quite as slick) and got his ass thoroughly and completely beaten by SRL. There's nothing Junior has ever done that's given even the teensiest bit of indication that he'd even present a moderately entertaining fight against Leonard, much less beat him, or even manage to go the distance. Floyd Jr hasn't ever fought at even half the pace that Leonard set in nearly all his fights, and has never, ever been hit with a flush lead right hand the likes of which he'd be catching constantly from Leonard. Mayweather is an extremely talented fighter, with fantastic speed and natural ability that comes only very rarely in this sport, but he's lacking the drive, heart, and just plain old guts it would take to make him even remotely competetive with the likes of Leonard. In other words, he's a ****ing sissy. Now then....You've spent 7 pages doing nothing but talking out your ass about your boyfriend's talents and skills being too much for Leonard. You will never, ever convince anyone who knows anything about this sport and has seen Leonard fight, of the bullshit you're tossing around here. So here's an idea...go somewhere else, to some other forum, or at least another thread (I saw a "Mayweather Appreciation" thread a few days ago, hit that one for awhile, it's right up your ally) and stop saying the same inane bullshit over and over again just because you've found someone who'll respond. P.S. TO THE THREAD STARTER: Thanks, asshole.

WPINK I will continue to debate without the insults. 1 on 1 if you would like we can hook up and spar and i'll buy you a beer afterwards. Played cornerback at UCLA/ KR/ PR from 1993-1997. Boxed part time. Not a professional fighter or bragging to be anything special but your talking sh**t. Bring it on. Im 6-3 220 still in great shape. If you kick my ass oh well. Buy you a beer. There is a boxing gym in Long Beach CA off Redondo. Im there all the time. Bring it on and stop the taking. Back to SRL. His career was cut to short to judge him. Now lets get to your point about Floyd fighting quality opponents at 147. You are absolutely correct Floyd has yet to face a top notch 147 pounder and i have complained about that in the past as well. Keep in mind im not even a Floyd fan. Im a die hard Roy Jones jr fan. Im just impressed with Floyd's skills level and give him props. His attitude annoys me. Id like to see him fight a Shane Mosley or a Miguel Cotto. I dont think there styles would give him problems but id like to see it. The style to beat Floyd is a long fighter in the 6-0, 6-1 range with reach and a great jab that doesn't over committ. Keep the jab in his face, but don't get to over aggressive early where your leaving yourself wide open. Pump the jab in his face, then take a step back and come back with another jab. Drop in a right and occasional combo then step back. This will have Floyd being the one having to apply pressure and if you use your size to your advantage you might land a big shot with Floyd coming in. Vernon Forrest of 2002 and Paul Williams are the styles to give him major trouble. I think Floyd is strong enough to compete with SRL despite not facing the elite of the WW class. That's my personel opinion. I think Floyd is that skilled of a fighter. Dude has mastered the shoulder roll technique that James Toney used and took it to another level with great counterpunch speed behind it. This is hilarious...I do sell Pharmaceuticals and work many times in the Sherman oaks area with Medtronic who have a partnership with to use our insulin in their insulin pumps..So Yes I am always out in Cali, and would love to test what I call your dental. PM me your info and we can do it. I still spar to, here in Houston at Legends ranch off of Sawdust road.....Take my son there. Now your a bit younger than I, as I played DB 84-87 (Tony berry real name)..Chck my credentials. Now for the Mayweather issue. I am glad your coming around. Yes Mayweather had tremendous skills. TREMENDOUS SKILLS. However, there is a reason he does not fight a strong, sizable Welter. He is the Welter wight king of the hill, but will not fight Welters, Hmmm. I will stop the insults, your correct, but you have to agree to apply some logic to your posts. If he has not fought a true great Welter, peak, natural welter, how can you even think he would beat one of the best. Lets just say Ray leoanrd comes out and goes after him, like he did hearns. What is Mayweather going to do. Ray has the foot speed to stay on top of him. Ray has the Jab which we saw Mayweather could not deal with DLH jab, and dlH was about as close to a great fighter above 135 as Mayweather faced, and you have to agree that DLh was shot at the time. Ray would simply have to take it to mayweather and be in shape. Before retirment Ray had a chin of granite, he never went down. He also was crafty enough to pin Mayweather and take it to him Honestly ray 82, Mayweather style is not suited for a Ray or a hearns, because he would have to come out of his shell, and his defensive posture and at some time become offensive. That opens you up, even the great mayweather. Sure Ray will miss a lot, but you came along after Ray fought so your looking at vid's of certain fights, Look at his chavarini fight, his geroldo fights, his andy price and green ko's. Then look at how he totally pulvarized a undefeated Mayweathr SR. Once again, stop and think. If Ray came out aftr Mayweather he could sit back and box him using the jab and counter when maywether came in, as Maywether would have to step in, to land. Since you know boxing you do know he stand on his back of his feet and roll and only when he has his opponent timed does he switch his stance and starts to lead more with his right. Do you honestly think he will stand in front of Ray Leonard and lean forward weight extended beyound parallel with his feet total disrespect for his opponents but they are overmatched so they can not make him pay. Ray has the speed power reach and smarts, to simply do what ever he wanted to. Now Mayweather atgain will not be easy to hit, but if Ray came out after him and made him fight, this could end early. Mayweather would have to exchange, and that would be a night mare for him. As for Roy, he is a all time top pound per pounder...defended vs legit light heavy's did not lose until he was boxing for 15 years and had to lose muscel weight rapidly. Beat 22 champions 19 world champions,,defended light heavy 12 times. Beat Toney and Hopkins...Roy could have fought dm, clottery, collins, Nunn. etc. He gets dinged for that. However unlike Mayweather he has wins vs true light heavy'sm true super middles true middles....Mayweather has not, has not unified anything.. Roy did,

Why is your screen name Ray Leonard and why did you say he was your favourite fighter then? I'm just as confused.

SRL is one of the most overated boxers in history. Floyd is the more skilled fighter PERIOD. Why is your screen name Ray Leonard and why did you say he was your favourite fighter then?

WPINK I will continue to debate without the insults. 1 on 1 if you would like we can hook up and spar and i'll buy you a beer afterwards. Played cornerback at UCLA/ KR/ PR from 1993-1997. Boxed part time. Not a professional fighter or bragging to be anything special but your talking sh**t. Bring it on. Im 6-3 220 still in great shape. If you kick my ass oh well. Buy you a beer. There is a boxing gym in Long Beach CA off Redondo. Im there all the time. Bring it on and stop the taking. Back to SRL. His career was cut to short to judge him. Now lets get to your point about Floyd fighting quality opponents at 147. You are absolutely correct Floyd has yet to face a top notch 147 pounder and i have complained about that in the past as well. Keep in mind im not even a Floyd fan. Im a die hard Roy Jones jr fan. Im just impressed with Floyd's skills level and give him props. His attitude annoys me. Id like to see him fight a Shane Mosley or a Miguel Cotto. I dont think there styles would give him problems but id like to see it. The style to beat Floyd is a long fighter in the 6-0, 6-1 range with reach and a great jab that doesn't over committ. Keep the jab in his face, but don't get to over aggressive early where your leaving yourself wide open. Pump the jab in his face, then take a step back and come back with another jab. Drop in a right and occasional combo then step back. This will have Floyd being the one having to apply pressure and if you use your size to your advantage you might land a big shot with Floyd coming in. Vernon Forrest of 2002 and Paul Williams are the styles to give him major trouble. I think Floyd is strong enough to compete with SRL despite not facing the elite of the WW class. That's my personel opinion. I think Floyd is that skilled of a fighter. Dude has mastered the shoulder roll technique that James Toney used and took it to another level with great counterpunch speed behind it.

Lets just say had Ray never suffered the detached retina i think he would have been tested more against stronger fighters. Hearns was weight drained coming in at 144 pounds and Duran moved up in weight. Ray's prime was to short. Had he continued he would have fought fighters like Donald Curry, Lloyd Honeghan, Mike McCallum, Julian jackson, Marvin Hagler (1982,1983,1984) Michael Nunn, Aaron Pryor, Hearns rematch at 154 pounds which was when Tommy was at his strongest. I thought he lost the 1st fight because he was fatigued from coming in at 144 pounds. SRL career in my opinion was cut to short to really fully judge him. He didn't clean out any divisions. It seemed like it was win a title or two and retire. Weather it was from the eye injury or in 1987 making the excuse this is only 1 fight and that's it with Hagler. Well he came back in 1988. Why not in 1987 fight Hearns RIGHT THERE...When Tommy was still looking great after knocking out Dennis Andries or Mike McCallum. He waited until Hearns looked horrible against James Kinchen and was like ooooooooh now i want Tommy. Didn't he say after the Hagler fight. See you in 6 months and 15 pounds heavier. Hearns was looking to impressive so he was like hell nawwwwwww i will wait until he looks like crap. Had he never suffered the eye injury he would have ended up facing stronger fighters with more power as his career went on. Shh***t if Roy Jones career ended at Montell Griffen he would look like the greatest ever

Did you just include Ayub (slow) Kalule as a big win? Your kidding right. So i guess we might as well include Donny Lalonde also. Ray''s cheap way to 2 titles and you know it was cheap. 168 and 175 pound title in 1 night and all you got to beat is Lalonde. Michael Nunn, Mike McCallum would have been less titles but more credibility. Wilfred Benitez - Thats the same as Floyd knocking out Hatton and destroying Marques. Both were pound for pound top fighters at the time. Stop putting words in my mouth and don't bring up basketball cause you nothing about basketball. MJ and Kobe are not just athletic but also fundamentally sound to go with that athletic a ability. I said Dr J cant dribble with his left and his ball handling was not very good. MJ and Kobe both have excellent ball handling skills with a variety of moves from the PINCH POST..Both mastered the art of the Mid-Range jumper. I have no idea where you the info i said MJ was only athletic ability. He's one of the most fundamentally sound players in NBA history. Back to overated SRL. Duran - Duran dominated him when he was in shape. 2nd fight is to much controversy. Usually when a fighters quits there getting busted up like Oscar vs Manny last year. Ray was only up 4 rounds to 3 and was hardly dominating. I guess put that name on Ray's resume even though it was CHEAP. If i was Ray i wouldn't even want credit for this win. Running around the ring with very little punching and Duran quits for no reason. I judge this rivalry from the 1st fight when Duran was hungry and in shape........Roberto Duran kicked SRL ass moving up in weight Hagler - Waited until he got old and admitted it. Hmmmmm this about says it all Boxing scene fans..... this is the level of stupditiy that is allowed in cyberspace... Has anyone yet heard Ray 82 answer the question posed before him the last 3 days....Who has Mayweather beat at Welter that as natural, great, and peak? Mighty funny he ducks this question like Mayweather ducks legit welters... As far as what you judge who give a ****...your credility is about a high as your IQ. FAllacy number one...It was only one of the judges scorecards that had Leoanrd only winning by 1, the other two had him by two, with the 8th clearly Ray's round, which would have made it 5-2-1, 5-2-1, 5-3. Now for a little math, idiot. If person is dominating 5 of 8 rounds, that is pretty domminant wouldnt you think..but how much of a point spread is that after 8 rounds..that is only 3 points... Now multiply that by the fact that SRL was not fighting Hatton, or 36 year old Dlh, or feather weight JMM, he was fighting roberto Duran, who was just as focused as he was the 1st fight, only differencce was instead of fighting toe to toe,he fought more like...hmmm mayweather fights... As for your again bandwagon stupid no research done statment about Duran rematch in 6 month..Did you even bother to research two key important points..1. Duran always gained weight in between fights and he always lost it..so why bring it up now...2. the avg time between duran fights leading up to this fight was 3-4 months. He fought 1/80, 2/80, then SRL in 6/80 then 11/80. Before that 4/79, 6/79, 9/79.. we can go all the way back to when he started you ****in idiot.....Do you even bother to research... My point is, why try to use this as an excuse...If anything Ray gave him more time than he normally tool. Do your research! List on here where Leonard ever said he admitted to waiting til hagler got old or slow. Dont go off of popular myth,or rumor. YOu said he admitted, meaning fact, meaning you read a quote, or heard him. So produce it you idiot. Do not produce anything saying he knew Mugabi outboxed hagler so he could outboxe hagler, as your evidence as this is what I am tellin your dumb ass is what he said..Do your research. Beating benetiz is the same as floyd beating Marquez at welter and hatton at Welter Hmmmm. A feather and a jr welter.. both who never beat anyone substantial or Jmm who never fought at 140 or 147, only 2 fights at 135 and hatton 1 fight at 147 and almost got stopped,,then he gets stopped by a featherweight a little later after their fight. Benetiz beat Cervantes, was the jr welter, welter and then Jr middle weight champion..Hmmm Benetiz generally regarded top 50-75 all time pound per pound.. Hmmmm Where is Jmm or Hatton ranked...Hmmm Were they solid welters? As for Ball I played D1 ball for KU in football, and got offers D1 in BBall. Not only that but I boxed 7=9th grade, but had to abandon it due to I could not committ fully to the sport and my goal was a college education. Was actually called up on the 1988 national championship KU bball team, as was my friend Clint normore, who actually played, in the Championship game. I did not. Do your research. So between you and I we can do whatever you want to do, how you want to do it. I know bball, fball and boxing. I give Mayweather his props and people on here know I defend him many times as a POUND PER POUND great fighter. At 130 and 135 he was amazing. He took on all comers. In his first 20 fights he was beating the crap out of good fighters like Manfredy, then he destroyed Corrales. He then fought a good Castillo and in most peoples eyes he lost, he showed the heart of a champ and gave a immediate rematch, but he ran just like your saying Ray ran. Then I was really giving him love, he moved up and fought a C level fighter who has not the skills of a champion but the heart of one, Gotti. He destroyed him. Then he moved on up to Welter. I was like damm this guy was good. I argued with everyone about his fight with Judah instead of Baldomir. He already signed it, Judah is the better fighter IMO, so let em do it, as long as he fights the other fighters out there. Well he fought judah, then Baldomir, and a funny thing Happened, he flat out avoided every other top welter. I mean he avoided them like we are trying to avoid H1N1. Yes he take a big money pay day, again I applaud this, but this should have been a cakewalk for Mayweather...Peak fast, Dlh even though at 154 he moved up from 130 to. He was not a solid 154 pounder, his best days were at welter. Roy Jones, hearns, Leonard, anyone else would have destroyed that version of dlh. Hmmm didnt a featherweight destory him shortly after that...Maywether fights the boringest fight in the history of boxing he could do nothing with DlH until DLH tired out. Is this the ability of a great champion, oh well he will fight some top fighters now. margerito, cotto, williams...who does floyd face a jr welter...Retires comes back not vs a top fighter but a feather weight.... No where in this analogy and I am being as unbiased as you can be, mayweathr is a great fighter for 130-135. No where on his resume is a Top, solid,fast, peak, great natural welter. NOWHERE. He struggled with a washed up DLH. I wonder why he and his camp will not even think about clotter, cotto, williams, Margerito, Mosley now. I wonder why.

Did you just include Ayub (slow) Kalule as a big win? Your kidding right. So i guess we might as well include Donny Lalonde also. Ray''s cheap way to 2 titles and you know it was cheap. 168 and 175 pound title in 1 night and all you got to beat is Lalonde. Michael Nunn, Mike McCallum would have been less titles but more credibility. Wilfred Benitez - Thats the same as Floyd knocking out Hatton and destroying Marques. Both were pound for pound top fighters at the time. Stop putting words in my mouth and don't bring up basketball cause you nothing about basketball. MJ and Kobe are not just athletic but also fundamentally sound to go with that athletic a ability. I said Dr J cant dribble with his left and his ball handling was not very good. MJ and Kobe both have excellent ball handling skills with a variety of moves from the PINCH POST..Both mastered the art of the Mid-Range jumper. I have no idea where you the info i said MJ was only athletic ability. He's one of the most fundamentally sound players in NBA history. Back to overated SRL. Duran - Duran dominated him when he was in shape. 2nd fight is to much controversy. Usually when a fighters quits there getting busted up like Oscar vs Manny last year. Ray was only up 4 rounds to 3 and was hardly dominating. I guess put that name on Ray's resume even though it was CHEAP. If i was Ray i wouldn't even want credit for this win. Running around the ring with very little punching and Duran quits for no reason. I judge this rivalry from the 1st fight when Duran was hungry and in shape........Roberto Duran kicked SRL ass moving up in weight Hagler - Waited until he got old and admitted it. Duran did not dominate Leonard the first time around. It was a tremendous fight that Duran won by a close margin. Bottom line, in the rematch Leonard knew the circumstances, and he frustrated Duran to the point he didn't want to fight anymore. Seriously, can you name one welterweight Floyd Mayweather Jr. has fought that gives you any basis for predicting a win for him over the second best welterweight ever? Or are you simply the biggest Ray Leonard hater ever? I thought I didn't like Leonard but damn, you have me beat by far. And the point he was bringing up about MJ is that early in his career he relied a lot on his athleticism, so nitpicking by saying he couldn't shoot the three is irrelevant, just like you saying Leonard's defense relies on his legs so once his legs go he is in trouble is irrelevant since we are talking prime Leonard vs. Mayweather, so Ray's legs will be there.

Wilfred Benitez - Thats the same as Floyd knocking out Hatton and destroying Marques. Both were pound for pound top fighters at the time. GTFOH with that statement. That is one of the dumbest statements that has been made on here. Benitez was a top 3 WW. Was Hatton top 3 WW? What about JMM was he top 3 WW? Benitez would of embarrassed Hatton and JMM at 147

Hardly a dominating performance or reason for Duran to quit. He had just hit Ray with a big right hand at 1:29 mark of this video. One of the most overated performances in boxing history. Ray was only up 4 rounds to 3. And this counts on his resume as one of his big victories.

Idiot..Still no answer, huh. I undestand your still looking for the key wins vs peak, great and natural welterweights...... It will be a while, CUZ THEY AINT THERE. Your wrong about my prognosis about Ray vs floyd. First off floyd would not sign a fight vs Ray, and the Las Vegas judicial system would incarcerate Leonard for molestation and they should incarcerate Floyd for false impersonation of a welterweight champion, as does not welterweight fight hmmm welterweights.... In fact what other fighter in history has done what mayweather has done, idiot. What fighter has said they are soooo great,(self proclamation) beat the weakest element for a title, refusee to face to face to accept 8mil and fight for the title vs a solid welter and fight and defend a divisions belts, but NOT FIGHT ACTUAL challengers at that weighht class. Who Idiot? You can say SRL is overrated all you want. He would smack the shit out of you if you said it tohis face. Hell I would. You can sit home and tallk all this ignorant shit you want..Only thing youir doing is honestly trying to stir up shit and I am a idiot to for falling into this dumm ass debate... Hell it is sooo easy to destroy you on here... just like You say floyd sr, said Rays defense was in his legs...Hmmmm peep game here idiot.... 1. Since we are talking about Ray during his primme,,then SO THE **** WHAT. Roy had bad technique too, but so what during their prime whatever they depended on it worked. Just like Michael jordan, who it really pained me to see you now try to offer your two cents on bball, just what we need a nerd who probably never played nor ever boxed, telling us about a sport.....kudos....But since you brought it up...MJ early on scored a lot because of athleticm, was not a great shooter, but a great scorer with a explosive first step. So your saying Dirk should be ranked ahead of jordan because he can shoot better, and jordan relied on his legs early...No you ****ing retard, it is the skill set they were blessed with and how they implemented it..... 2. If floyd sr was such a ****in genius about Ray leonard and his lack of true defense, why didn the exploit it when he faced ray personally and got his ass truly handed to him EACH ROUND....in a fight your dumb ass said Ray struggled with him....Lets see he was more worthy of a Welterweight championship fight (if he ever got it) than Jmm...Now wasnt he based on Jmm never fougght at welter and never fought at 140 and only had 2 at 135...but somehow JMM got a fight vs Mayweather. Poinnt is idiot... Ray whipped floyd sr worse than floyd jr whipped Jmm, now didnthe. And we are listening to you and your guys who dick your sucking's daddy. WTF. If ray had only 1big win and we are comparing...and since duran was peak, hagler was only 32, benetiz peak, hearns peak, kalule peak, lalond peak, then guess what all of these are better champions than who mayweather beat, so i guess that means I will answer the question your scared to. The answer to how many quality great, natural peak welter MAYWEATHER beat is hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 0. Did you just include Ayub (slow) Kalule as a big win? Your kidding right. So i guess we might as well include Donny Lalonde also. Ray''s cheap way to 2 titles and you know it was cheap. 168 and 175 pound title in 1 night and all you got to beat is Lalonde. Michael Nunn, Mike McCallum would have been less titles but more credibility. Wilfred Benitez - Thats the same as Floyd knocking out Hatton and destroying Marques. Both were pound for pound top fighters at the time. Stop putting words in my mouth and don't bring up basketball cause you nothing about basketball. MJ and Kobe are not just athletic but also fundamentally sound to go with that athletic a ability. I said Dr J cant dribble with his left and his ball handling was not very good. MJ and Kobe both have excellent ball handling skills with a variety of moves from the PINCH POST..Both mastered the art of the Mid-Range jumper. I have no idea where you the info i said MJ was only athletic ability. He's one of the most fundamentally sound players in NBA history. Back to overated SRL. Duran - Duran dominated him when he was in shape. 2nd fight is to much controversy. Usually when a fighters quits there getting busted up like Oscar vs Manny last year. Ray was only up 4 rounds to 3 and was hardly dominating. I guess put that name on Ray's resume even though it was CHEAP. If i was Ray i wouldn't even want credit for this win. Running around the ring with very little punching and Duran quits for no reason. I judge this rivalry from the 1st fight when Duran was hungry and in shape........Roberto Duran kicked SRL ass moving up in weight Hagler - Waited until he got old and admitted it.

Ray 82...debating with you is like debating with a 2 year old..they are talking but you you dont know what the F they are talking about cuz it makes no sense..No boxing sense.Only hugging Mayweather nuts sense... Generally you use norms when you debate so that back and forth has somoe mutually accepted common ground in which to agree or disagree. However when you say a fighter that has not Beaten not 3 not 4 not 2, but not beaten one single peak, great natural welterweight, or even very good welterweight, and you try to justify that this fighter has the ability to beat a all time top 2 welter.. Then that just shows your ignorance. You also confound things by justifying your position about Ray's defense issues by saying Floyd Sr said when his legs go so does his defense. Do you realize how ****in stupid that statement is on several fronts. First off how can a guy who got his ass handed to him by the guy they are discussing have any room to talk and even more who would be the dumbass to listen...Hmmm YOU Ray 82...Second..so the f what when his legs leave, we are talking about prime Ray, his legs were there... Just like we can assume that Michael Jordan would be able to make a wide open dunk because it is widely accepted by EVIDENCE OF ACTUAL MADE DUNKS, that we have seen that he can do this...Thus is is feasible to argue about his dunking ability. Not his shooting from half court, as we have not seen this...No matter how good his is..would you with your dumb ass bet he could hit 5 in row from half court,...the greatest bball ever. You probably sooo, but most other would have to see it first...Thus most would not bet on him to do it. This is what your dumb ass is on here tryind sell. A figher who has NEVER (i GAVE YOUR MANY MANY MANY CHANCES TO PRODUCE A TOP WELTERWEIGHT WHO WAS A NATURAL WELTER, PEAK AND GREAT) BEATEN a top welter...somehow is just ahead of proving it vs the likes of Cotto, Williams, Mosley who would whip his ass, Clottery, Berto, margerito..Somehow Mayweather is jumped ahead of showing what he can do vs s true welter and in your eyes he can beat Leoanrd. Thus I can say that Ray leonard can beat Tyson. Hell based on your analogy, Douglass was able to outbo him, even thought ray does not have the power to hurt him ray would win a points decision..Based on your anaolog...No ray never beat a top heavyweight, but neither has mayweather beaten a top welter. Finally. You keep on saying this speed shit. 2 things. You know the reason why mayweather and company are not jumping into these fights with bigger men, because all that shit he does, will not keep a true welter off of him, and in boxing you have to get respect. Sort of like how Ray did not respect mayweather sr. and just walked him down. Sure every agrees mayweather is a great fighter and a great defensive fighter, HE DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER, OR THE PUNCH VOLUME OR SIZE TO KEEP A TOP WELTER LIKE LEOANRD, HEARNS, DURAN, Williams, Margerito, Mosley off of him. He knows this, that is why he is not fighting them. No fault of his, as he did move up from 130, but our arguement is not pound per pound. Our discussion is floyd at Welter.. Do you know what effective speed means in boxing. Probably not, idiot. It means what will be relevant in that fight. Roy jones had effective speed vs trinidad, but not vs Tarver or calzaghe. Mosley had it vs everyone but not vs Forrest, Hell Mayweather did not have it vs Dlh until round 8..Hmm i wonder why..Leonard did not have it vs Hearns.. Is there a common denominator starting to show to you.. It is called a jab, idiot. Forrest jab, neutralized the shorter less reach Mosley and thus his speed, the speed demon he was and his punches were faster than Mayweathers with more power at welter. Mosley could do nothing. But Mosley fought a top big welter, unlike Mayweather. Hearns 78 inch reach, 6'1 reach and speed neutralized Leoanrd speed. However leonard had other skills, that allowed him to stop hearns. Dlh jab was controlling the fight vs mayweather. he was walkling Maywether down, had him on the ropes,,jabbing him straight back, and Mayweathr could do nothing. Then he tired out, and maywether started putting his punches together. Jab. Now Norms...Right..You wonder why i started with norms. Idiot. If DLH jab was that effective vs Mosley and he has less reach and less speed than leoanrd and less power in his jab than leonard....and he was 36 vs a peak mayweather...What in the hell do you think a bigger stronger, faster, fighter with a left hook and and a right, and with stamina is going to do to Mayweather.. You think mayweather is going to tire out Leonard..The same leonard who went 15 rounds back to back action with Duran, stopped hearns in 14, stopped benetiz in 15,,,,Also mayweather fights the same style as his daddy, defensive shoulder roll on his back foot. Guess what that means,,,his reach is that much shorter...idiot. He would only be relying on countering. Ray would walk him down, methodically, land at will to the body, and left hooks upstairs...stragiht rights and beg..LITERALLY BEG mayweather to try to exchange with him. It would be worse than the whipping he gave his daddy. Only thing mayweather would try to do is counter. You think he could hurt Leoanrd...Really? Also Norris beat a 34 year old shot cocained, retired for 6 out of 9 years leoanrd...But also norris is a much stronger, faster 3 punch combination fighter than Maywether..Also norris would slaughter a peak mayweather, while your at it.

Not really, but this Rayleonard82 moron has Mayweather's cock stuck in his throat, all the way up to his ballsack, and Wpink has been trying to get the stupid, cumguzzling bitch to spit it out.....unsuccessfully, I'm afraid. LMAO... The dillusional nuthuggers in this forums are annoying sometimes.

Dude give it a rest and agree to disagree. You think SRL beats Floyd inside 5 rounds and makes his corner stop the fight and wave in the towel even though Ray didn't KO Akub Kalule, Larry Bonds, Benitez inside 5 rounds. SRL is one of the most overated boxers in history. Floyd is the more skilled fighter PERIOD. Your weak excuse of Ray was layed off when he fought Kevin Howard in 1984. Floyd was off 2 years also and faced a better opponent in Marquez and won with ease. Fact is as Floyd's FATHER said in 1999 about SRL. He said Ray's defense was his legs. My son can defend close range and still make you miss. Archie Moore. James Toney style. OLD SCHOOL WPINK...Like u said lets stick to facts 1. Duran - Fact is 1980s rematch Ray said i wanted to fight him within 6 months because i knew he got out of shape between fights. 2 Hagler - Ray was in the crowd for the Mugabi fight. He said exactly. I was counting on Haglers lost speed. Meaning deterioation. To me that sounds like a dude trying to get glory the CHEAP WAY Fact is Duran in shape MOTIVATED put the whippin on Ray Leonard and Hagler despite much slower still won that fight. I suggest you watch Hagler from the early 80s and look at the snap on his shots and speed. BIG DIFFERENCE. That's why Ray ducked him and waited. Ray fooled you, but not me. He had 1 big victory and thats Hearns. so i guess Barkley is all time great also cause he knocked Tommy out also. Idiot..Still no answer, huh. I undestand your still looking for the key wins vs peak, great and natural welterweights...... It will be a while, CUZ THEY AINT THERE. Your wrong about my prognosis about Ray vs floyd. First off floyd would not sign a fight vs Ray, and the Las Vegas judicial system would incarcerate Leonard for molestation and they should incarcerate Floyd for false impersonation of a welterweight champion, as does not welterweight fight hmmm welterweights.... In fact what other fighter in history has done what mayweather has done, idiot. What fighter has said they are soooo great,(self proclamation) beat the weakest element for a title, refusee to face to face to accept 8mil and fight for the title vs a solid welter and fight and defend a divisions belts, but NOT FIGHT ACTUAL challengers at that weighht class. Who Idiot? You can say SRL is overrated all you want. He would smack the shit out of you if you said it tohis face. Hell I would. You can sit home and tallk all this ignorant shit you want..Only thing youir doing is honestly trying to stir up shit and I am a idiot to for falling into this dumm ass debate... Hell it is sooo easy to destroy you on here... just like You say floyd sr, said Rays defense was in his legs...Hmmmm peep game here idiot.... 1. Since we are talking about Ray during his primme,,then SO THE **** WHAT. Roy had bad technique too, but so what during their prime whatever they depended on it worked. Just like Michael jordan, who it really pained me to see you now try to offer your two cents on bball, just what we need a nerd who probably never played nor ever boxed, telling us about a sport.....kudos....But since you brought it up...MJ early on scored a lot because of athleticm, was not a great shooter, but a great scorer with a explosive first step. So your saying Dirk should be ranked ahead of jordan because he can shoot better, and jordan relied on his legs early...No you ****ing retard, it is the skill set they were blessed with and how they implemented it..... 2. If floyd sr was such a ****in genius about Ray leonard and his lack of true defense, why didn the exploit it when he faced ray personally and got his ass truly handed to him EACH ROUND....in a fight your dumb ass said Ray struggled with him....Lets see he was more worthy of a Welterweight championship fight (if he ever got it) than Jmm...Now wasnt he based on Jmm never fougght at welter and never fought at 140 and only had 2 at 135...but somehow JMM got a fight vs Mayweather. Poinnt is idiot... Ray whipped floyd sr worse than floyd jr whipped Jmm, now didnthe. And we are listening to you and your guys who dick your sucking's daddy. WTF. If ray had only 1big win and we are comparing...and since duran was peak, hagler was only 32, benetiz peak, hearns peak, kalule peak, lalond peak, then guess what all of these are better champions than who mayweather beat, so i guess that means I will answer the question your scared to. The answer to how many quality great, natural peak welter MAYWEATHER beat is hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 0.

Lets see Mayweather beat who at Welter. Baldomir... not a top 20 fighter Judah .... has been beaten by every fighter worth a dammm DLH..... 36 has lost repeatedly before fighting Mayweather. Hatton....Never ever looked good at welter, almost as got ko'd at welter the fight before. Barely won. Marquez....never ever fought above 135.... So help me understand who has Mayweather beaten to even justify this stupid question. Now just to address it. Mayweather is a defensive fighter, that uses his speed advantages, reach, and in the case of Marquez size advantage, and in the case of DLH , his stamina to outlast, in the case of Judah, smarts and toughness... What advantage would he have offensively vs Leoanrd. 0. Leonard is just as fast, throws better combinations, has the size and reach, was in just as good as shape, is just as smart (usually), hits harder, has fought much much much better competition (hearns, hagler, beneitz, Duran). Mayweather has fought no one near this level of competition at Welter. Mayweather keeps trying to say duran moved up to beat leoanrd but he gets a hard time for fighting marquez. Lets set the record straight. Duran is 25 times the fighter Marquez could dream of being. Marquez was clearly over sized vs a smaller Mayweather at welter. Meaning he is not capable of fighting effectivly at Welter. Duran not only was a good welter, but he went on to win titles at jr middle, and middle weight, after his wars with Ray. Duran did not move up to fight ray. Duran moved up 2-3 years prior, and had 8 fights at welter before fighting ray, including a fight vs a top welter Carlos palomino. Thus Duran was a solid Welter before fighting Ray. No it was not his natural weight, but he had gotten accustomed to welter before fighting Ray, marquez was not even a solid 135 pounder, and then he had to move up an additional 2 weight classes to face Mayweather. If Sugar Ray faced Mayweather, he would be charged for molestation. good post green k

I am not going to read all this pages. But, Ray Leonard beats Floyd. Is this even a debate? Not really, but this Rayleonard82 moron has Mayweather's cock stuck in his throat, all the way up to his ballsack, and Wpink has been trying to get the stupid, cumguzzling bitch to spit it out.....unsuccessfully, I'm afraid.