Can guys with 25 losses or more be top 25 ATG's

:lol1: Exactly!! I don't know why Im still trying to hammer this point home, but its been irking the hit out of me. Ezzard Charles had 25 losses and is one of the 15 best fighters ever in my opinion. Sam Langford had 47 losses and is almost always ranked among the top ten or fifteen fighters ever. Heavyweight champion Jack Dempsey said "The hell I feared no man. There was one man I wouldn't fight because I knew he would flatten me. I was afraid of Sam Langford. Remember, he had 314 fights :|

Anybody got more opinions on this subject?

Sam Langford did go 47-1 during his prime years, only losing to Sam McVea who was a 220 pound heavyweight compared to Langford who was a middleweight/light heavyweight at the time.

Former light heavyweight champion and ATG Maxie Rosenbloom. 222wins 22 losses. But the real kicker is that only 19 of those wins are by KO

You can include Rolando Navarette as one of the victim of Arguello. Navarette Kayoed Boza Edwards to win the Jr. Lightweight Championship which he lost to Limon on his 2nd defense. I was noticing Naverette while digging through other names. Can't say Im very familiar with him, but I can say that 130 was a stacked division in the late 70's early 80's.

If memory serves, Chacon, Limon and Boza-edwards were just a notch below Arguello but took turns being in some of the best fights of the 80's. I know Chacon and Limon fought at least 4 times in some epic battles, and Boza-Edwards was mixed in their some how too. I'd have to look it up to be more accurate. You can include Rolando Navarette as one of the victim of Arguello. Navarette Kayoed Boza Edwards to win the Jr. Lightweight Championship which he lost to Limon on his 2nd defense.

Arguello lost to Marcel apparently...but Chacon looks to be a solid name If memory serves, Chacon, Limon and Boza-edwards were just a notch below Arguello but took turns being in some of the best fights of the 80's. I know Chacon and Limon fought at least 4 times in some epic battles, and Boza-Edwards was mixed in their some how too. I'd have to look it up to be more accurate.

You must be thinking of Bernards resume. Glen Johnson KTFO Roy. or maybe you're just listing his opponents? well if you include Johnson it might have a negative impact on the list :) Yeah that was a mistake:lol1: Maybe Thomas Tate instead...

Arguello lost to Marcel apparently...but Chacon looks to be a solid name

:lol1: I won't put it 1-10 cuz some might debate it... James Toney Bernard Hopkins Mike McCallum Virgil Hill Antonio Tarver John Ruiz Glen Johnson Clinton Woods Montell Griffin Vinny Pazienza or Felix Trinidad(well washed up Trinidad) It may be close...both had higher weight supremacy....Roy went from 160 to heavyweight You must be thinking of Bernards resume. Glen Johnson KTFO Roy. or maybe you're just listing his opponents? well if you include Johnson it might have a negative impact on the list :)

Alfredo Escalera, Jose Luis Ramirez, Ruben Castillo appear to be Arguello's best wins... Evander's are probably Riddick Bowe, Mike Tyson, and Michael Moorer... I haven't seen enough Arguello to say for sure really...Evander is the only 4-time champ tho He's also got Marcel, Boza-Edwards, Chacon, Limon Oliveres. His resume is stacked with tough fighters, but yeah, those were probably his best.

You would put Arguello ahead of Evander? All 3 should be above DLH IMO. Between Vander and Arguello I'll rate Evander higher.

I would. I rate Arguello very highly. Guy was a beast! Alfredo Escalera, Jose Luis Ramirez, Ruben Castillo appear to be Arguello's best wins... Evander's are probably Riddick Bowe, Mike Tyson, and Michael Moorer... I haven't seen enough Arguello to say for sure really...Evander is the only 4-time champ tho Edit: O shit I forgot about Ruben Olivares...

You would put Arguello ahead of Evander? I would. I rate Arguello very highly. Guy was a beast!

I've seen most of those old schoold fighters only in books and magazines. old videos arent accurate enough they move like cartoons. I was watching Villa vs Wilde and all of sudden wilde was down on the floor out. It not impossible, but very difficult to judge fighters by old film. They are missing many frames, grainy, filmed from a distance and most of the time from only one angle. What you see isn't a complete picture. TheGreatA put up a video of Vitaly with the missing frames and grainier than todays film and it changed how he looked as a fighter noticeably. How are we to believe fighters of the past were so crude when they fought on such crappy film, when one of the best heavyweights in the last 10 years looked like crap on a film not nearly as bad?

Yeah and Carlos Monzon, Alexis Arguello and Evander are below Oscar Dela Hoya :D You would put Arguello ahead of Evander?

I've seen most of those old schoold fighters only in books and magazines. old videos arent accurate enough they move like cartoons. I was watching Villa vs Wilde and all of sudden wilde was down on the floor out. :lol1: I admit that might be up for a debate. you list Roy's TOP 10 wins and PAC's TOP 10 wins. No downplaying or highlighting certain details to avoid a merry go round argument. which one is better? 1. Erik Morales 2X 2. Marco Antonio Barrera 2X 3. Juan Manuel Marquez 4. Ricky Hatton 5. Oscar Larios 6. Oscar Dela Hoya 7. Chatchai Sasakul 8. Lehlo Ledwabba 9. David Diaz 10. Jorge Julio All World Champions. All won multiple championship from diffrent weight divisions except the last 4. This resume beat roy's imo. I won't put it 1-10 cuz some might debate it... James Toney Bernard Hopkins Mike McCallum Virgil Hill Antonio Tarver John Ruiz Glen Johnson Clinton Woods Montell Griffin Vinny Pazienza or Felix Trinidad(well washed up Trinidad) It may be close...both had higher weight supremacy....Roy went from 160 to heavyweight

I just noticed there is no Charley Burley on this list. Hmmmmm! Yeah and Carlos Monzon, Alexis Arguello and Evander are below Oscar Dela Hoya :D

That's the only way you really can do it... I doubt very few here have seen a lot of Henry Armstrong, Jack Johnson, Dempsey, and others... I've seen most of those old schoold fighters only in books and magazines. old videos arent accurate enough they move like cartoons. I was watching Villa vs Wilde and all of sudden wilde was down on the floor out.

From ESPN 1. Sugar Ray Robinson 2. Muhammad Ali 3. Henry Armstrong 4. Joe Louis 5. Willie Pep 6. Roberto Duran 7. Benny Leonard 8. Jack Johnson 9. Jack Dempsey 10. Sam Langford 11. Joe Gans 12. Sugar Ray Leonard 13. Harry Greb 14. Rocky Marciano 15. Jimmy Wilde 16. Gene Tunney 17. Mickey Walker 19. Stanley Ketchel 20. George Foreman 21. Tony Canzoneri 22. Barney Ross 23. Jimmy McLarnin 24. Julio Cesar Chavez 25. Marcel Cerdan 26. Joe Frazier 27. Ezzard Charles 18. Archie Moore 28. Jake LaMotta 29. Sandy Saddler 30. Terry McGovern 31. Billy Conn 32. Jose Napoles 33. Ruben Olivares 34. Emile Griffith 35. Marvin Hagler 36. Eder Jofre 37. Thomas Hearns 38. Larry Holmes 39. Oscar De La Hoya 40. Evander Holyfield 41. Ted "Kid" Lewis 42. Alexis Arguello 43. Marco Antonio Barrera 44. Pernell Whitaker 45. Carlos Monzon 46. Roy Jones Jr. 47. Bernard Hopkins 48. Floyd Mayweather Jr. 49. Erik Morales 50. Mike Tyson I just noticed there is no Charley Burley on this list. Hmmmmm!