Can Manny Pacquiao Surpass Sugar Ray Leonard in the ATG List?

if he ko's cotto, wins or has an epic trilogy with floyd, and then beats paul williams he will be top 5 p4p imo and i am not a pacman fan really. but he wont beat any of those guys. he will get stopped by cotto i have seen it in a dream. 7th round tko bump this thread later lol./

No, not unless he has an epic trilogy with mayweather anyway.

I do think Pacman could surpass SRL on the ATG list If he beats Cotto and Mayweather. I think he should be pretty close to him now with his accomplishments. SRL- Started as a Welterweight (147) Gold Medal Winner 1976 Olympics WBC WW Title- Wilfred Benitez 38-0-1 // 53-8-1 Lost than Won to Duran 71-1 // 103-16 WBA SWW Title- Ayub Kalule 36-0 // 46-4 WBC WBA WW Title Unification- Tommy Hearns 32-0 // 61-5-1 WBC MW Title- Marvin Hagler 62-2-2 // 62-3-2 WBC SM & WBC LHW Title- Donny Lalonde 31-2 // 41-5-1 WBC WBO Title Unification- Tommy Hearns DRAW 1 more victory against Duran Losses to both Terry Norris & Hector Camacho PAC- Started as a Minimum Weight (106) Lost to Rustico Torrecampo 11-4-4 WBC Flyweight Title- Chatchai Sasakul 33-1 // 65-4 Lost to Medgoen Singsurat 18-0 // 63-5 IBF SBW Title- Lehlohonolo Ledwaba 33-1-1 // 36-6 IBF WBO Title Unification- Agapito Sanchez 31-9-2 // 36-11-3 TD Beat Barrera 57-3 Draw with WBA IBF FW Champ- Juan Manuel Marquez 42-2-0 Lost to Erik Morrales 47-2 Beat Morales twice in rematches Beat Barrera in rematch WBC SFW Title- Juan Manuel Marquez 48-3-1 WBC LW Title- David Diaz 34-1-1 Beat De La Hoya 39-5-0 IBO LWW Title- Ricky Hatton 45-1-0 I think Pacman would rank Higher than SRL possibly if he only beats Cotto IMO. But to make it sure he's gonna have to either beat Mosley, Mayweather or Marquez than retire. I think thats enough good post but i think pac should beat shane mosley to even dare compete with sugar ray leonard

I do think Pacman could surpass SRL on the ATG list If he beats Cotto and Mayweather. I think he should be pretty close to him now with his accomplishments. SRL- Started as a Welterweight (147) Gold Medal Winner 1976 Olympics WBC WW Title- Wilfred Benitez 38-0-1 // 53-8-1 Lost than Won to Duran 71-1 // 103-16 WBA SWW Title- Ayub Kalule 36-0 // 46-4 WBC WBA WW Title Unification- Tommy Hearns 32-0 // 61-5-1 WBC MW Title- Marvin Hagler 62-2-2 // 62-3-2 WBC SM & WBC LHW Title- Donny Lalonde 31-2 // 41-5-1 WBC WBO Title Unification- Tommy Hearns DRAW 1 more victory against Duran Losses to both Terry Norris & Hector Camacho PAC- Started as a Minimum Weight (106) Lost to Rustico Torrecampo 11-4-4 WBC Flyweight Title- Chatchai Sasakul 33-1 // 65-4 Lost to Medgoen Singsurat 18-0 // 63-5 IBF SBW Title- Lehlohonolo Ledwaba 33-1-1 // 36-6 IBF WBO Title Unification- Agapito Sanchez 31-9-2 // 36-11-3 TD Beat Barrera 57-3 Draw with WBA IBF FW Champ- Juan Manuel Marquez 42-2-0 Lost to Erik Morrales 47-2 Beat Morales twice in rematches Beat Barrera in rematch WBC SFW Title- Juan Manuel Marquez 48-3-1 WBC LW Title- David Diaz 34-1-1 Beat De La Hoya 39-5-0 IBO LWW Title- Ricky Hatton 45-1-0 I think Pacman would rank Higher than SRL possibly if he only beats Cotto IMO. But to make it sure he's gonna have to either beat Mosley, Mayweather or Marquez than retire. I think thats enough Wow, when you put it out like that it makes me think that there is no way Pac could ever get close to Leonard. Those two careers condensed like that show Leonard to be much higher. People forget just how good those guys were at the time. Hearns, Benitez, Duran, Hagler etc. Twenty David Diaz's don't equal one win over a prime Duran, Benitez or Hearns. We consider Mayweather and Pac truly great now, with no one else really on their level right? Well, all of those guys were on the same level. Everyone considered them greats.

Totally agree Leonard different class. Think people are gettinga little too carried away with Pacquiao's victories. But my imo is he'll stop Cotto late rounds no doubt he has a good chance of beating cotto and pac has some great victories,he has beat some hall of famers (marquez,morales,barrera) whereas leonard has beaten 4 ATGs one of them being top 10 and a host of other top fighters

if he does that, beat cotto and floyd he got a case......

these same types of threads were rampant here when tito was on his tear. they'll stop after cotto handles the mango madness. :op:

people genuinely think he could easily surpass ray leonard,thats crazy-some people need too learn their history Totally agree Leonard different class. Think people are gettinga little too carried away with Pacquiao's victories. But my imo is he'll stop Cotto late rounds

lets say he beats cotto then beats floyd, as a pac fan i still cant see him getting a better place in the ATG list. sugar ray beat everyone he needs to beat. benitez, duran, hearns, and hagler. skill wise, sugar ray is also better. pac maybe able to match up srl's resume if he beats mosley shut the **** up you stupid jobless bum.

people genuinely think he could easily surpass ray leonard,thats crazy-some people need too learn their history

He really doesn't have opposition like Hagler, Hearns and Duran around but a win over Mayweather would be huge. That's the point here I think. He would have to beat Mayweather. Leonard beat four fighters that were all like Mayweather is today. Hearns an all time great, Benitez an all time great, Duran a top ten all time great and Hagler an all time great and maybe the best middleweight ever. That's like beating four Mayweather's! Though he got beaten by Duran he even up the score by winning the rematch, he beat the undefeated Hearns, the undefeated Benitez and Marvin Hagler who had not lost in eleven years and had been unbeaten throughout his whole championship reign from 1980 to 1987! Now, the other big thing to consider here is when they did it. Leonard beat Hearns and Benitez at the top of their games in their prime years. Duran and Hagler may both have been slightly on the decline with Duran having already moved up from 118 to 147 and having had seventy fights, but he had still only lost once years and year before and fought one of the great fights in their first match. Hagler had slowed a fair bit but he had still not lost in eleven years! That's seriously impressive. Pac has beaten the three FW great of this era, but they weren't at the peak times like Leonard's either. Morales was all but done having lost twice before fighting Pac and being at the end of his career. Barrera had also lost a couple of times to Jones as well as to Moarles, but he had been on a good championship run for a while when he met Pac. Great win! Marquez is still his best win so far I think. He had lost his pro debut by DQ, which doesn't really count. Apart from that though he had only lost one fight in his first title shot to Norwood which many think he won anyway, but that was five years before the Pac fight. He also then lost two fights later in another fight many saw going his way but, really, hasn't lost as such at all. The Pac fight was so close and many also felt that Marquez won it, but the official verdict was a Pac win and that may very well be his best win yet. The Oscar and Hatton fights were good name fights but they simply don't warrant any discussion in this type of debate when discussing truly legendary wins. They were good names that add to his overall record but they don't catapult him to the heights of Leonard. Not that it is something to moan at. Very few fights in history will be able to match that. Not only will they rarely ever have the skill and will of Leonard but there will probably never be another time when one era contains such an amazing array of ATG fighters across so many divisions. The other great thing was that they were all more than willing to fight each other to show who was the best. Apart from that though they also all had massive careers of their own outside the fights they had with each other, all of them beating other truly great champions. It would be nearly impossible for Pac to get higher than Leonard. He really would have to beat Cotto, Mayweather and then take one of the major title holders at 154 or something to get close to the top ten or surpass Leonard.

Difference is Manny was a teen and his body matured into higher weights for the most part...Duran was 135 in his 20's and went all the way to 160 winning titles... Duran also started at 118 pounds, older than when Pacquiao was 106.

Yes i would say Pac is level with SRL now. Could be just above SRL or just below. You could make an argument either way. Pac beat, Morales, Barrera,Hatton, DLH. Big, big names and the manner in which he beat them is something SRL couldnt do. Pac is the best now. SRL wasnt really considered the best was he? Duran, Hagler, Hearns and a few others i bet had a shout of who was the best in those days. People talk about how Pac will be the greatest who ever lived with a few more wins over certain people. So hes got to be above SRL.

It is possible...but not very likely ATM. Manny would have to beat Cotto, Mosley and Mayweather. Then he somehow blows his body up into a full fledged 147 pounder. See how unlikely this is starting to turn out? ...He was able to turn a 106 pound body into a 140 body so it isn't COMPLETELY stupid and Duran was able to go to 164 pounds and still give MARVIN HAGLER a run for his money. Is Pac, Duran material? We'll still have to see. I mean again...Manny went to 140 pounds from 106 and he likes it so who knows? Then he has to beat Wright or Williams at 154 by KO/TKO or by shut out. But what are the odds of that happening? Even then, he still might not make it past SRL. Difference is Manny was a teen and his body matured into higher weights for the most part...Duran was 135 in his 20's and went all the way to 160 winning titles...

It is possible...but not very likely ATM. Manny would have to beat Cotto, Mosley and Mayweather. Then he somehow blows his body up into a full fledged 147 pounder. See how unlikely this is starting to turn out? ...He was able to turn a 106 pound body into a 140 body so it isn't COMPLETELY stupid and Duran was able to go to 164 pounds and still give MARVIN HAGLER a run for his money. Is Pac, Duran material? We'll still have to see. I mean again...Manny went to 140 pounds from 106 and he likes it so who knows? Then he has to beat Wright or Williams at 154 by KO/TKO or by shut out. But what are the odds of that happening? Even then, he still might not make it past SRL.

ESPN have Barrera and Morales inside their TOP 50 :) and MArquez aint even done yet. :rofl: O shit I forgot they were in there...we'll see about Marquez...I think he's a very good fighter but his best wins came when his opponents(and him) were past there prime...

And Morales, Barrera, and Marquez are all very good fighters but none are considered ATG's... ESPN have Barrera and Morales inside their TOP 50 :) and MArquez aint even done yet.

wow....r we really just talkin about pacquiao surpassing the great sugar ray leonard.. I cant believe the pacquiao threads these days.. Why? you think no one can surpass those legends? lol

Boxers of the past like Sugar Ray, Duran, Hagler and others are great but people tend to overrated them too much to the point of god like status. We conditioned our mind that nobody from our generation will surpass them no matter what you did or achieved in boxing. You know why? its because of our human nature that we are sentimental species. We valued and appreciated anything (includes great boxers) from the past like an priceless antique. But in reality, there is no way we can prove than Sugar Ray, Duran, Hagler and others will win or eat alive the likes of Mayweather, Pacquiao or other greats in our generation if they fight. Thats why we can only compare them on their achievements and resume. But some other people here are very sure that the great boxers of the past will annihilate our great boxers in this era. But they also forgot that the methods, fundamentals, the techniques already perfected by years of trial and error plus the advanced training of today's boxer are far more better than in the past. Thats alone will work wonder and help them to beat these past greats in reality. Just like technology and medicines, or other things today are far more better than in the past. AMEN very GOOD POST Green + 50K pts sent :D

The old days were a legend. If you compare the old greats and present greats. You end up cheering the old days. I tell you, today is our old days.. Time will tell when today will be known as an old day. PAC <= SRL as of now.