boxing managers trying to sign me to a contract, questions

Stay away from fat black dudes with weird hair and last name king...lol

Don't misrepresent the young cat man. You obviously have no idea what you speak of. Good managers most definitely front money to legitimate prospects for living expenses, training expenses etc.... For this front the manager will usually get anywhere between a 20-30% take of the negotiated purse and potentially the same % of the fighters PPV revenue if the fighter was ever fortunate to fight at that level. The manager will also try to cut endorsement deals for the fighter which the manager will also get a cut of. How else is the manager suppose to make back his investment? A good manager dealing with a legitimate prospect will usually not enforce the 20-30% owed to him until the fighter starts fighting for purses upwards of $10,000.00. Also, I haven't even got into the misconception you gave on promoter and fighter dealings. Let's finish with manager/fighter. Say a manager signs a prospect for a $10,000 signing bonus and provides $2,500 per month in living expenses. The manager also pays out roughly $20,000 in training expenses over the 3 year building period. With those numbers his minimum investment to the the fighter at this point would be $120,000 after 3 years. The fighter if successful up to this point will be fighting for $100,000 - $150,000.00 purses maybe twice a year. Let's say it is on the high side and the fighter fights for $300,000 in year 4. At 20% the manager's return would be $60,000. Still a ways to go to recoup his initial investment. Now think of all the fighters that manager invested in that never made it to year 4. Point is that good managers spend a lot of money on a lot of fighters hoping for the chance of getting rewarded with a Pac, Mayweather, Pavlik, Mosely, etc... type of return. Now on to the lie you said about fighter/promoter dealings.... You said, "DON'T FORGET YOU HAVE TO SPLIT YOUR CASH WITH YOUR PROMOTER". A promoter by law can never touch any of the fighter's purse money. The promoter makes his money off of prenegotiated site fees, live gate sales, ad sales, network fees and possible PPV revenue. The promoter offers the fighter a purse to perform, if the fighter and his manager think it is fair they accept. If a fighter has a strong negotiating position, see Manny Pacquiao, he can also get a good portion of the PPV revenue on top of his agreed upon purse. PPV revenues are usually split as follows... AFTER PRODUCTION EXPENSES ARE PAID 50% network 50% lead promoter the caveat to this is if the fighter has negotiated a % from the promoter or if you have 2 promoters each putting their A list fighter against each other at which time they would negotiate a split of the promoter's share of the PPV revenue and accordingly negotiate the fighter's % Great analysis, very insightful.

Alot of people here are just fans and don't understand the business side of boxing. Things you should consider... 1. Do you want to go to the Olympics?If so then dont sign shit, you wont be able to go to the Olympics if you do. 2. How much money will they give you to sign with them? If it aint shit, then dont sign. 3. Length of contract? If it is by years, screw it. If it is by "fights" see how many. If it is a low number, take it (if your answers to the above questions are no that is). 4. What is this managers track record with boxers. If he has a staple of bums and haven't gotten anyone to at least to a good prospect position or can't get fights for his boxers, then dont take the offer. Those are things you should consider. Do you research on the manager as well, so you know what you are getting yourself into when dealing with him. Also note how I mentioned the Olympics first. That is a once in a lifetime thing, you can still try your hand at that but when you sign with a manager, you can't do it. Choice is yours. Good luck with it all. :fing02: LOL, from one know-it-all to another.

I would be very careful of Pesoli. He is strictly a club guy that will use you as an opponent and has zero connections in the business. He is also pretty sleazy. that may be so, or maybe not, it doesnt really matter as long as he's not signing with him. As a club show guy myself, I can tell you a fighter needs to do at least one of the following 3 things to be able to fight on one of my shows...... 1. be signed with me 2. have a relationship with a manager or trainer that I work with 3. be able to sell enough tickets to pay for their fight If they cant do one of those things, why should I waste a slot on my show on them? Every fight I put on a show has to make sense on some level. We're not in the charity business here. By the time you figure in purses, travel, hotel, meals, insurance, and commission fees, even the cheapest 4 rounder will cost the promoter at MINIMUM $2,000. How many people here just go around giving away $2000 for giggles??

I would be very careful of Pesoli. He is strictly a club guy that will use you as an opponent and has zero connections in the business. He is also pretty sleazy.

Since financially you seem to be able to take care of yourself, you probably could get by without management at this point. But if you are going to sign with someone, here are 2 big points to consider..... 1. Can he get you fights? The best manager in the world is worthless if he doesnt have working relationships with promoters in order to get you on cards. 2. In the manager contract, make sure the language says "must offer" in regards to the number of fights per year rather than "may offer". Otherwise, he may never offer you even 1 fight, but would still have a valid contract. If you put in the "must offer", then even if he is a total hack, you can dump him for breach after the first year if he doesnt deliver. (you would also want similar wording in any promotional contracts you might eventually sign) If you can sell some tickets though, you could probably go directly to someone like Dominic Pesoli in Chicago and he would put you on his shows without signing you as long as you can sell enough tickets to pay for both sides of your fight. Bobby Hitz used to run regular up there too, but he hasnt been doing any shows lately........

Also Alfa, don't let these guys tell you that winning a Golden Gloves title is going to boost your negotiating stance. Local GG champions are a dime a dozen. You are 26 with limited amateur experience. Therefore you truly have about a 1 in million chance of making it in pro boxing. That was not to discourage you, it was just being real. With that said, your number one goal should be to not be viewed as an opponent starting out your career. Therefore you need a connected trainer, manager or promoter that is going to make sure that you enter your first 10-15 fights with a more than fair shake at winning. During those 10-15 fights you should slowly ascend the ability level of your opponents. If you go out there with no one looking out for you, you will find yourself at 5-10 or something like that very quickly. Question, why did you ever leave the DC area? Many more qualified trainers and gyms that are putting out top talent in the northeast than there are in Chicago. If you can really fight and if you are really serious about getting down to 140 lbs send me a message and I will put you in touch with some people that can help you. Peace.

Do the tourney but honestly the way ametures and profession boxing is they are so different. How many ameture fights have you had thus far? What is your weight class? How old are you? Where are you from? What type of fighter are you? Power puncher, speedster, technical boxer type? Are you orthrodox or south paw? That aside a manger in boxing should never get more then 15% DON'T FORGET YOU HAVE TO SPLIT YOUR CASH WITH YOUR PROMOTER AND THE MANAGER DOESN'T FRONT YOU ANY $$$ he is just there to negotiate deals with your promoter and make sure you don't get screwed...Also see who else he manages and what their carrers are like....LEFTY Don't misrepresent the young cat man. You obviously have no idea what you speak of. Good managers most definitely front money to legitimate prospects for living expenses, training expenses etc.... For this front the manager will usually get anywhere between a 20-30% take of the negotiated purse and potentially the same % of the fighters PPV revenue if the fighter was ever fortunate to fight at that level. The manager will also try to cut endorsement deals for the fighter which the manager will also get a cut of. How else is the manager suppose to make back his investment? A good manager dealing with a legitimate prospect will usually not enforce the 20-30% owed to him until the fighter starts fighting for purses upwards of $10,000.00. Also, I haven't even got into the misconception you gave on promoter and fighter dealings. Let's finish with manager/fighter. Say a manager signs a prospect for a $10,000 signing bonus and provides $2,500 per month in living expenses. The manager also pays out roughly $20,000 in training expenses over the 3 year building period. With those numbers his minimum investment to the the fighter at this point would be $120,000 after 3 years. The fighter if successful up to this point will be fighting for $100,000 - $150,000.00 purses maybe twice a year. Let's say it is on the high side and the fighter fights for $300,000 in year 4. At 20% the manager's return would be $60,000. Still a ways to go to recoup his initial investment. Now think of all the fighters that manager invested in that never made it to year 4. Point is that good managers spend a lot of money on a lot of fighters hoping for the chance of getting rewarded with a Pac, Mayweather, Pavlik, Mosely, etc... type of return. Now on to the lie you said about fighter/promoter dealings.... You said, "DON'T FORGET YOU HAVE TO SPLIT YOUR CASH WITH YOUR PROMOTER". A promoter by law can never touch any of the fighter's purse money. The promoter makes his money off of prenegotiated site fees, live gate sales, ad sales, network fees and possible PPV revenue. The promoter offers the fighter a purse to perform, if the fighter and his manager think it is fair they accept. If a fighter has a strong negotiating position, see Manny Pacquiao, he can also get a good portion of the PPV revenue on top of his agreed upon purse. PPV revenues are usually split as follows... AFTER PRODUCTION EXPENSES ARE PAID 50% network 50% lead promoter the caveat to this is if the fighter has negotiated a % from the promoter or if you have 2 promoters each putting their A list fighter against each other at which time they would negotiate a split of the promoter's share of the PPV revenue and accordingly negotiate the fighter's %

Hey man MAKE SURE YOU ASK YOU TRAINER if you are an ALT. Because there are a lot of them you know, but make sure to ask him so you know.

Alot of people here are just fans and don't understand the business side of boxing. Things you should consider... 1. Do you want to go to the Olympics?If so then dont sign shit, you wont be able to go to the Olympics if you do. Hell no. No one watches boxing in the Olympics, only managers/promoters wanting to sign fighters, if they win, are the ones watching Olympic Boxing, so that way they have an easy marketable fighter to HBO PPV. ****k that. Plus it's in 2012? Too far off. Another fact: Olympic Swimming is way more popular than Olympic Boxing. I don't understand why there will be Women's Boxing at this upcoming Olympics. 2. How much money will they give you to sign with them? If it aint shit, then dont sign. I'll look into this. Isn't it a promoter's job to offer money? No fight=no money isnt' it? A manager simply manages/looks out for the fighter's best interest? A form of protector? 3. Length of contract? If it is by years, screw it. If it is by "fights" see how many. If it is a low number, take it (if your answers to the above questions are no that is). I'll look into this. But as far as I know, 2 years is standard in almost anything unless you are in power to negotiate. 4. What is this managers track record with boxers. If he has a staple of bums and haven't gotten anyone to at least to a good prospect position or can't get fights for his boxers, then dont take the offer. Hmm I see. The manager has no track record to speak of/brag about, but didn't everyone start from the bottom up? An established manager would rarely take a chance on new fighters, if ever, and if the manager has 1 or 2 elite fighters, the manager usually concentrates on what he has and shuts the door on up and coming fighters. This is true. Boxer Allan Green's promoter/ or manager does not really have much of anyone else other than ALLAN GREEN. Am I right? Cus had Mike Tyson, etc. The more fighters a manager has, the less attention could be given to fighters, so less is more. Those are things you should consider. Do you research on the manager as well, so you know what you are getting yourself into when dealing with him. Also note how I mentioned the Olympics first. That is a once in a lifetime thing, you can still try your hand at that but when you sign with a manager, you can't do it. Choice is yours. Good luck with it all. :fing02: Thanks again! :fing02:

/end thread This guy comes in here looking for answers but seems to be discrediting everything anyone says. Sounds like you know it all dude. 5-7 160? Pick a different line of work. I never said I knew it all. That is why I'm here asking questions. Thanks for implying that I knew it all though. Are you still in love with me? :bottle:

/end thread This guy comes in here looking for answers but seems to be discrediting everything anyone says. Sounds like you know it all dude. 5-7 160? Pick a different line of work. don't hate. don't mistake a reply/response as discredit. I found some answers, now give me yours instead of being on my left nut. Man...get off my nutts! :****you:

DONT i gotta firend who is paticually screwed...... dude signed a 5 year contract and he only been not even 2 years deep... all it does is problems... now everytime he fights.. he give 20 % to whom he was signed too... and not even the corner men % is included..... ive been offered too.. and i just say'ill think about it' but FOCK that... NO DUDE NOO JUST DONTTTT particularyly screwed huh? Contracts always have it clear for how long it is, he should have known 5 years is a while. What problems does it give? I hope your friend isn't making excuses for losing, as most fighters does? Is he finding excuses for losing and blame it on who he is signed to? I hope not. It's not the trainers/promoters, it's still the boxer doing the fighting in the ring right? And losing will give you problems. If he is winning in these 5 years, after that contract, he will be in power to negotiate or go free agent am I right? I'm not a lawyer but do have common sense and 20% is reasonable considering the Ali Act allows managers up to 33.3%. Your friend still has 13.3% left/leeway to pay for cornermen(s)?

33.3% is whats legal. With the mixed answers you just have to remember that your dealing with alot of people never in the game. The woman outside the ring in my avatar was my manager, Jackie Kallen. Thats me in the ring bacjk in the day. We never had a contract, she knew me since my amatuer days and we trusted eachother. This trainer Sims, I'll bet he never asked for a contract. Because he probably knows what he is doing and is confident in his abilities to show you what you'll need..................Rockin':boxing: Yeah now I see why I get mixed answers. None of these wanna-bees even know me, yet I feel the hate. Thanks for your advice though. About you and your manager, well that was "back in the day", was this in the 80's? When everyone just had fun? Never thought about tomorrow? Those were the days when Mike Tyson was at his most reckless too, so was glam rockers, and everyone else. Those days of reckless trust are over. I don't think trainers in general will ask for a contract, it's between trainers and managers.

well if you signed it the worst case scenrio could be he will throw you to the wolves to pad some other fighters record. Better concentrate on other stuff and have more opened options Being thrown out to be a pad to some other fighter's record/to build record is sketchy and don't always work. At the end of the day, a fighter who fights bums will become a bum as well. Now, where the ****k is Tye Fields??? Wasn't Andrew Golotta thrown out there to fight short notice fights but was winning instead? It's still the boxer, not the trainer or manager you know? :boxing:

well if you signed it the worst case scenrio could be he will throw you to the wolves to pad some other fighters record. Better concentrate on other stuff and have more opened options

here's the thing: there is a manager who wants to sign me to a contract while I'm still doing the amateur thing and leaning towards the Golden Gloves tournament next year, so that way if I turn out to be good no other managers/people in boxing would "steal me". What's the advice? Alot of people here are just fans and don't understand the business side of boxing. Things you should consider... 1. Do you want to go to the Olympics?If so then dont sign shit, you wont be able to go to the Olympics if you do. 2. How much money will they give you to sign with them? If it aint shit, then dont sign. 3. Length of contract? If it is by years, screw it. If it is by "fights" see how many. If it is a low number, take it (if your answers to the above questions are no that is). 4. What is this managers track record with boxers. If he has a staple of bums and haven't gotten anyone to at least to a good prospect position or can't get fights for his boxers, then dont take the offer. Those are things you should consider. Do you research on the manager as well, so you know what you are getting yourself into when dealing with him. Also note how I mentioned the Olympics first. That is a once in a lifetime thing, you can still try your hand at that but when you sign with a manager, you can't do it. Choice is yours. Good luck with it all. :fing02:

/end thread This guy comes in here looking for answers but seems to be discrediting everything anyone says. Sounds like you know it all dude. 5-7 160? Pick a different line of work. that's what I was getting at :)

you have any amateur fights? /end thread This guy comes in here looking for answers but seems to be discrediting everything anyone says. Sounds like you know it all dude. 5-7 160? Pick a different line of work.

Born in Manila, Phillippines to a Filipina mom and a Kuwaiti father. Grew up in the U.S. 5'7" at 160 does appear bad on paper, thus I am dropping to a weight class where there's more competition (140-147)... :boxing: you have any amateur fights?