Weigh-ins or fight night weights.

Same-day weigh-ins might encourage fighters to keep in better shape generally (everyone would be moving up a weight class too), but the current system isn't particularly flawed. Just two different systems.

That's true. Gamache felt Gatti cheated on the scales but mainly because he didn't think anyone could put on 20 lbs in just 24 hours. I think he had some other evidence as well having something to do with the NYSAC but I can't remember what it was just now. http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/jb22900.htm By Joe Bruno- Former Vice President of the New York Boxing Writers and the International Boxing Writers It sure didn't look like Arturo Gatti needed much help in his second round destruction of Joey Gamache Saturday night at Madison Square Garden, but the mysterious things that happened at the weigh-in on Friday afternoon need to be examined before somebody gets hurt real bad. Since John L. Sullivan ruled the roust in the gay 1890's, weigh-ins always took place on the day of the fight. But the procedure recently changed in many states to having the weigh-in the day before the fight, so that a fighter weakened and dehydrated from making the weight, would have more than a full day to get his strength back. Sounds good on the face of it, but these rules allowed Gatti to go from 141 at the Friday afternoon weigh-in to a whopping 160 when he entered the ring 28 hours later. That is, if he made the 141 contacted weight to begin with, which Gamache's agent/representative Johnny Bos is absolutely certain did not happen. "I took Joey to the commission offices on Friday afternoon to get his license to box in the state," Bos said. "While we were there, I had Joey get on the commission scale, and he weighed 140 1/4, so I felt we were in good shape for the real weigh-in at the Garden at 4pm." But when Bos and Gamache arrived at the Garden early a strange thing happened. "Joey got on the scale there and he was now 137 1/2. I knew something was wrong with the scale." So Bos did some screaming, and after some hemming and hawing by commissioner Tony Russo, the bad (tampered with?) scale was replaced with a legit scale. But according to Bos, the shenanigans didn't stop there. Gamache made 140 1/4, then he stepped down and Gatti got on the scale. "When Gatti got on the scale, which was set at 141, the arrow shot up and hit the metal, meaning Gatti was over 141," Bos said. "But Russo immediately yelled out '141.' Gatti jumped off the scale and drank down a glass of water. I yelled at Russo but he told me to mind my own business and to stop stirring things up." Even Gamache's trainer Jimmy Glenn, who is one of the most mild-mannered men in the seamy sport of boxing started screaming at Russo, but to no avail. It just so happened that the same scale, and the same ubiquitous Tony Russo had done the exact same thing at the Oscar De la Hoya/Darrell Coley weigh-in just minutes before. Just as Bos and Glenn were protesting Russo's call, Coley and his manager Leonard Langley started yelling "See, it happened again." Apparently, De la Hoya was over the contracted weight of 147, but Russo's eyes saw 147 and his mouth yelled 147, and the law is the law, especially in the police state of New York City. During the fights the next night, it was obvious that both De la Hoya and Gatti had huge weight advantages over their opponents. Gamache had gone up to 144 by fight time, but Gatti now weighted a booming 160 pounds, giving him a 16 pound weight and strength advantage. Even De la Hoya, who was now 156 pounds, was a full four pounds lighter then the now- middleweight Gatti. The fight itself was a total steamroller job. Gatti hurt Gamache with almo st every punch, knocking Gamache down twice in the first round, before landing an explosive right-left at the 41 second mark of round two. Gamache went down hard, the back his head banking down hard on the canvas, creating a severe whiplash effect. The referee Benje Estaves stopped the fight without counting, and the ring doctors immediately rushed into the ring to attend to the badly hurt fighter. Gamache lay there for almost ten minutes, before he was able to walk off on his own power. The ring doctors had wanted a stretcher brought in to carry out Gamache, but Gamache told them, "Please let me walk out on my own." He immediately went to St. Vincent's Hospital for a Cat Scan, and is still there as of this writing. Bos said late Sunday night, "Joey's still dizzy and nauseous. I don't want to be a crybaby, but Gatti's 16 pound weight advantage made him too big and strong for Joey. We contracted for Joey to fight a junior welterweight, and he wound up fighting a middleweight instead." Now both De La Hoya and Gatti are Top Rank and HBO fighters. They were the house fighters that night, and because of the huge investments HBO and Top Rank have in them, both were expected to win in impressive fashion. De La Hoya and Gatti are devastating punchers at any weight, and they certainly don't need some blind (crooked?) mouse at commission weigh-ins to give them an unfair advantage over their poor opponents. Joey Gamache said before the fight he would retire if he lost to Gatti. Here's hoping that Gamache can enjoy his retirement without walking around on his heels, throwing punches at thin air after hearing imaginary bells. "He's okay now, " Bos said about Gamache. "But these kind of things don't show up for ten, maybe twenty years down the road." The powers-that-be in boxing should change the rules back to the way it was before "men of good conscience" decided to play God. Have the fighters again weigh-in on the day of the fight, not the day before. The next time we have King Kong fighting Mighty Mouse, the little guy just might get crushed, and wind up in worse condition than Joey Gamache did Saturday night at Madison Square Garden. Then you'll really see the cockroaches crawling in and out of the woodwork, that was once the respectable New York State Athletic Commission

Hey Bat, what do you think of the potential match up between Pavlik and Sturm? I think it's great. We need unifications.

Wasn't it also about the scale not working properly when Gatti weighed in or is my memory incorrect? That's true. Gamache felt Gatti cheated on the scales but mainly because he didn't think anyone could put on 20 lbs in just 24 hours. I think he had some other evidence as well having something to do with the NYSAC but I can't remember what it was just now.

Wasn't it also about the scale not working properly when Gatti weighed in or is my memory incorrect? Hey Bat, what do you think of the potential match up between Pavlik and Sturm?

Never heard of Joey Gamache suing Arturo Gatti for coming in at 160 lbs to a light welterweight bout? Gamache was brutally knocked out and is supposedly still suffering from the after-effects of that bout. Wasn't it also about the scale not working properly when Gatti weighed in or is my memory incorrect?

I'm interested. I don't think performance enhancers can have that kind of effect on a boxer but extreme dehydration can, since you lack fluids which protect the brain or atleast so I have read. This makes it more likely for blood clots to develop in the brain, which is what happened in all cases. Performance enhancers can make your body go longer than without it hence enabling it to take and dish out more punishment.

I'm interested. I don't think performance enhancers can have that kind of effect on a boxer but extreme dehydration can, since you lack fluids which protect the brain or atleast so I have read. This makes it more likely for blood clots to develop in the brain, which is what happened in all cases. Block believes not only did the New York Commission make a hasty decision, but also a wrong one. "The fact remains that the whole weight of medical evidence, collected from all over the world over a period of years, shows dehydration is the single biggest cause of serious brain injury in boxing. The longer a boxer has between making weight and actually boxing the less likely he is to suffer brain damage. Those are the facts."

Never heard of Joey Gamache suing Arturo Gatti for coming in at 160 lbs to a light welterweight bout? Gamache was brutally knocked out and is supposedly still suffering from the after-effects of that bout. no i didnt, sorry to hear that.

I agree with you on this because the purpose of weight classes is to ensure fair competition in the ring during the course of a fight. Co-Sign.... The only thing about it being the day before is it also adds abit more tactics to the game, and how different people can perform... but then again it takes like spray said..the whole purpose of weight classes out of the game....

Never heard of Joey Gamache suing Arturo Gatti for coming in at 160 lbs to a light welterweight bout? Gamache was brutally knocked out and is still suffering from the after-effects of that bout. here is an interesting article on the subject http://www.boxing-monthly.co.uk/content/0008/two.htm

the weight that both fighters agree to is the official weight and thats final. i have yet to hear a fighter ever complain about how much the other fighter weighs on fight night. so lets end this b.s. already. even the king of excuses himself floyd mayweather doesnt complain about this b.s. he agreed to and fought baldy at 147 even though baldy probably weighed 200 lbs on fight night. Never heard of Joey Gamache suing Arturo Gatti for coming in at 160 lbs to a light welterweight bout? Gamache was brutally knocked out and is supposedly still suffering from the after-effects of that bout.

Here you go with your ignoramus boots on approach , and you own post is a contradiction by saying you legally have to make the weight on fight night which you dont its the day before and thats the problem , unofficial weights are admissible in court and a quite accurate . Hi Rod. :wave: I'll trim it down for you. I'd rather see guys fight in their own goddamn divisions. Fukk catchweights. If you can't go all the way up into a new division, you ain't outgrown your current one so don't bother. Now get off my nutsac old man.

Here you go with your ignoramus boots on approach , and you own post is a contradiction by saying you legally have to make the weight on fight night which you dont its the day before and thats the problem , unofficial weights are admissible in court and a quite accurate . the weight that both fighters agree to is the official weight and thats final. i have yet to hear a fighter ever complain about how much the other fighter weighs on fight night. so lets end this b.s. already. even the king of excuses himself floyd mayweather doesnt complain about this b.s. he agreed to and fought baldy at 147 even though baldy probably weighed 200 lbs on fight night.

I suspect there's more to those incidents than weight. I cannot prove anything but I think performance enhancers has been involved in at least some of those cases. Discussing that however would take the thread on a detour. I'm interested. I don't think performance enhancers can have that kind of effect on a boxer but extreme dehydration can, since you lack fluids which protect the brain or atleast so I have read. This makes it more likely for blood clots to develop in the brain, which is what happened in all cases.

The big problem that I have with today's weigh-in procedures is that there have actually been more cases of boxers suffering injuries in the ring due dehydration than there were before. Having 24 hours of time to put on 15-20 lbs after dropping extreme amounts of weight did not help Gerald McClellan, Leavander Johnson, Michael Watson, "Kid" Akeem Anifowoshe, Paul Ingle... I suspect there's more to those incidents than weight. I cannot prove anything but I think performance enhancers has been involved in at least some of those cases. Discussing that however would take the thread on a detour.

True. Still the perfect procedure has yet to be found. I for one just cannot see it. By keeping the weigh-in where it is today you risk big differences come fight time. By moving the weigh-in forward you risk more cases of dehydration and thereby increased risk of permanent damages. The big problem that I have with today's weigh-in procedures is that there have actually been more cases of boxers suffering injuries in the ring due dehydration than there were before. Having 24 hours of time to put on 15-20 lbs after dropping extreme amounts of weight did not help Gerald McClellan, Leavander Johnson, Michael Watson, "Kid" Akeem Anifowoshe, Paul Ingle...

The fukkin weight you sign a contract to fight at is your division weight, thus the weight that counts cuz you legally have to make it on fight nite. Unofficial weights are called that for a reason.

True. Still the perfect procedure has yet to be found. I for one just cannot see it. By keeping the weigh-in where it is today you risk big differences come fight time. By moving the weigh-in forward you risk more cases of dehydration and thereby increased risk of permanent damages. I doubt it, Fighters would be force to move up and fight at a healthy weight, Mosley wants to fight Pacquiao for example and he is willing to come down to 144 but by fight night he would probably have rehydrate to 160ish but if they said he cant weight more than 150 on fight night then he would be force to look elsewhere instead of looking at a little guy to fight.

http://nysbar.com/blogs/EASL/2009/04/boxing_issues.html The duty owed by the Commission is heightened by a third provision, 19 NYCRR § 213.14, which provides that “o boxer shall participate in any contest or exhibition following weight loss of one percent or more of body weight within 24 hours prior to such contest or exhibition, unless otherwise authorized by the commission.” This provision would seem to indicate that the Commission has a proactive duty to investigate whether a boxer had to lose weight by extreme means prior to the weigh-in to get to the contractually agreed upon weight for a given fight. The duty is further heightened by 19 NYCRR § 214.8, which indicates that a bout should not be permitted to take place between two junior welterweights if there is more than an 11 lb. weight differential between them. Exactly, Boxing need something like this...