Pound 4 Pound who do you Rank 11 through 20?

I think the reason Klitschko doesn't get ranked high by Ring, is the general consensus regarding Heavies is outside of the Klits no one is of note. Beating Sam Peter or Ibragimov doesn't boost your resume enough to land you higher. With that said, I believe Wlad should be ranked higher based on his dominance and skill level. I would have put a cavaet on explaining why and who I would have dropped (my whole reasoning). I do not rate HW P4P though so not an issue I had to really deal with. If you do put HW P4P Wlad has to be top 10 for sure and should be pretty high up, I do not see how Cotto, Cabellero, Donaire, Rafeal Marquez, possibly Darchinyan, B-Hop and Mosley are ahead of Wlad. Put him in his rightful spot is all I am saying, if you are going to rate him. I agree that the HW division is pretty soft but Wlad has stood out and deserves his accolades as with his brother (for the most part anyways). I put my list and explained myself, sorry that I do not feel HW should be rated P4P, I did not think it was that big of an issue. My all time P4P list does not include HW either. I do have a list of all time great HW though

Right, I'm glad someone followed the idea. I was curious to see how Boxingscene would expand on what is considered the official top 10. It would be interesting to see their current 11-20. Some exclusions and inclusions of the top 10 are baffling. yeah, even the ring should expand their list to atleast 15. they seem to have some weird additions and subtractions to their list sometimes, which usually tells me that they really think 13 guys are deserving of being on the list but they can only fit 10. P-Will and Calderon are prime examples. They deserve to be on the list just as much as anybody.

I put him 11-20 according to the rules of the TS. He said 11-20 not inlcuding anyone in the ring top 10. Right, I'm glad someone followed the idea. I was curious to see how Boxingscene would expand on what is considered the official top 10. It would be interesting to see their current 11-20. Some exclusions and inclusions of the top 10 are baffling.

So why is Wlad not in The Ring top 10, I would think he should be there if you want to put HW in the P4P list, he has accomplished more then atleast half of the top ten and should most likely be top 5 just because of how long his reign of dominence has been. If you are going to rank Wlad atleast put him up high where he deserves not 11-20. I think the reason Klitschko doesn't get ranked high by Ring, is the general consensus regarding Heavies is outside of the Klits no one is of note. Beating Sam Peter or Ibragimov doesn't boost your resume enough to land you higher. With that said, I believe Wlad should be ranked higher based on his dominance and skill level.

So why is Wlad not in The Ring top 10, I would think he should be there if you want to put HW in the P4P list, he has accomplished more then atleast half of the top ten and should most likely be top 5 just because of how long his reign of dominence has been. If you are going to rank Wlad atleast put him up high where he deserves not 11-20. I put him 11-20 according to the rules of the TS. He said 11-20 not inlcuding anyone in the ring top 10.

Not trying to hate, my friend, but would you mind explaining your choice with Tarver? Cheers. That list just sounds like he named a few fighters he likes. No rhyme or reason.

So what? Adamek has got on the list for his fights since losing to Dawson and Tarver and johnson are over 40 and where never that good. it takes more than beating 40 year old Tarver and Johnson to make top 20 P4P sorry. Cunningham and Banks >>> Geriactric Tarver and Johnson Who the hell has Banks beaten or even fought? Those wins are not nearly strong enough to undo the fact that Chad Dawson BEAT Adamek. I think Adamek is an excellent fighter and definitely believe he belongs in the 11-20 but to completely blow Dawson off makes zero sense.

1. Manny Pacquiao 2. Juan Manuel Marquez 3. Bernard Hopkins 4. Shane Mosley 5. Paul Williams 6. Miguel Cotto 7. Vic Darchinyan 8. Israel Vazquez 9. Rafael Marquez 10. Ivan Calderon 11. Chad Dawson 12. Chris John 13. Nonito Donaire 14. Kelly Pavlik 15. Celestino Caballero 16. Wladimir Klitschko 17. Tomasz Adamek 18. Arthur Abraham 19. Joshua Clottey 20. Juan Manuel Lopez Decent list. Mosley is too high. I never could understand his instant elevation to top 5 p4p status on the back of the one win over Margarito; he needs at least one more recent win more against top class opposition IMHO. I'd bump down Williams a couple of places as well, despite being a fan. As for 11-20, yet another reminder that Pavlik v. Abraham really needs to happen. It's reaching the point where you can't really take either of them seriously until it does. Good to see Chris John high up in there.

that is exactly how I look at it. if you understand my post, I do only look at the accomplishments and skill. but I just put the hw division in its place whereas everyone else SEVERELY underrates that division. So why is Wlad not in The Ring top 10, I would think he should be there if you want to put HW in the P4P list, he has accomplished more then atleast half of the top ten and should most likely be top 5 just because of how long his reign of dominence has been. If you are going to rank Wlad atleast put him up high where he deserves not 11-20.

I really don't understand both always including a heavyweight or never including them. The idea of a P4P list is to rank fighters based on their skill and accomplishment absolutely regardless of weight class. Paying any special attention to heavyweights undermines the point of the whole exercise either way. that is exactly how I look at it. if you understand my post, I do only look at the accomplishments and skill. but I just put the hw division in its place whereas everyone else SEVERELY underrates that division.

the p4p was created for non-hw AND hw's alike. It wasn't JUST created for non-hw's. thats why the first ever p4p#1 was Tyson. Having hw fighters in the top 10 p4p doesn't take away from the rest of the lower divisions. It just puts their skills and accomplishments at the same level, whereas before the p4p ranking, a hw fighter's skills and accomplishments were considered greater than the rest. The term P4P existed long before Tyson, I disagreed with it. You are not going to convince me otherwise on this topic. HW are the top dogs no doubt, that is why I seperate them. I do not feel that HW need the extra accolades of P4P status where as the little guys do need it.

I really don't understand both always including a heavyweight or never including them. The idea of a P4P list is to rank fighters based on their skill and accomplishment absolutely regardless of weight class. Paying any special attention to heavyweights undermines the point of the whole exercise either way. I will always be consistent though, I disagree I just rank heavies against heavies and no one else. P4P list are subjective enough as it is, so the less things that get thrown into this catchall the better. The top heavyweight should be the king of all boxing, that is how I look at the HW champ anyways, the HW champ does not need these extra accolades.

I just use the historical definition of P4P which was created for non HW to get attention. I have always looked at it this way and always will exclude HW from P4P. If that is how the P4P list started I believe it should be consistent for all history and going forward. If I would consider Wlad I would put him in the top 10 anyways, he is the top heavy and accomplished more then most of the guys in the top 10. To me there are Heavies and then everyone else. the p4p was created for non-hw AND hw's alike. It wasn't JUST created for non-hw's. thats why the first ever p4p#1 was Tyson. Having hw fighters in the top 10 p4p doesn't take away from the rest of the lower divisions. It just puts their skills and accomplishments at the same level, whereas before the p4p ranking, a hw fighter's skills and accomplishments were considered greater than the rest.

I really don't understand both always including a heavyweight or never including them. The idea of a P4P list is to rank fighters based on their skill and accomplishment absolutely regardless of weight class. Paying any special attention to heavyweights undermines the point of the whole exercise either way.

In no particular order: Ricky Hatton Kelly Pavlik Carl Froch Nate Campbell Antonio Margarito Roy Jones Antonio Tarver Not trying to hate, my friend, but would you mind explaining your choice with Tarver? Cheers.

My belief is that the top ranked hw should ALWAYS be included in the top 10 because the hw division is the most vast division in boxing. In every other division fighters face a very small percentage of all the fighters in boxing that usually weigh in at the same weight as them. in the hw division, you have fighters from 200+. there is no weight limit. you can have anyone from 201lbs to 350lbs. the p4p ranking is a lot about fighters being champions in multiple weight classes which gives them a huge boost in their ranking but in the hw division, fighters kinda jump weight classes as well but there is no defined weight class above 200 so nobody really takes notice. for example: chagaev fought and beat valuev who out weighed him by about 100 lbs. Can you imagine if Calderon stepped into the ring against Adamek and beat him? that would be huge and Calderon would instantly be p4p#1 on everyone's rankings and that fight would be the relative equivalent of chagaev-valuev and nobody really gives chagaev that much props for it. That is why I always include the top ranked hw in my list. I just use the historical definition of P4P which was created for non HW to get attention. I have always looked at it this way and always will exclude HW from P4P. If that is how the P4P list started I believe it should be consistent for all history and going forward. If I would consider Wlad I would put him in the top 10 anyways, he is the top heavy and accomplished more then most of the guys in the top 10. To me there are Heavies and then everyone else.

Will give you one though 11) Paul Williams 12) Thomasz Adamek 13) Chad Dawson 14) Chris John 15) Arthur Abraham 16) Kelly Pavlik 17) Hozumi Hasagawa 18) Juan Manuel Lopez 19) Humberto Soto (opps forgot Calderone he should be in this spot) 20) Tim Bradley I do not include HW P4P, just a personal thing. This is not an easy thing to do though once you get to this part of the ranking there is not much between guys. My belief is that the top ranked hw should ALWAYS be included in the top 10 because the hw division is the most vast division in boxing. In every other division fighters face a very small percentage of all the fighters in boxing that usually weigh in at the same weight as them. in the hw division, you have fighters from 200+. there is no weight limit. you can have anyone from 201lbs to 350lbs. the p4p ranking is a lot about fighters being champions in multiple weight classes which gives them a huge boost in their ranking but in the hw division, fighters kinda jump weight classes as well but there is no defined weight class above 200 so nobody really takes notice. for example: chagaev fought and beat valuev who out weighed him by about 100 lbs. Can you imagine if Calderon stepped into the ring against Adamek and beat him? that would be huge and Calderon would instantly be p4p#1 on everyone's rankings and that fight would be the relative equivalent of chagaev-valuev but nobody really gives chagaev that much props for it. That is why I always include the top ranked hw in my list.

You realize you have Adamek on your list, a fighter who Dawson has already beaten. He also beat Tarver twice and Glen Johnson once..So what? Adamek has got on the list for his fights since losing to Dawson and Tarver and johnson are over 40 and where never that good. it takes more than beating 40 year old Tarver and Johnson to make top 20 P4P sorry. Cunningham and Banks >>> Geriactric Tarver and Johnson

11- Abraham 12-Darchinan 13-Lopez 14-Cambell 15-Valero 16-Clottey 17-Martinez 18-Baby Bull 19-Berto 20-Bradley ......... Williams is p4p top 10 I dnt care what anyone says, and I think Kelly Pavlik is up there too Darchinyan is in the ring top 10

11.Wlad Klitschko 12.Paul Williams 13.Ivan Calderon 14.David Haye 15.Chad Dawson 16.Kelly Pavlik 17.Tomasz Adamek 18.Arthur Abraham 19.JuanMa Lopez 20.Vitali Klitschko