Some questions about Boxing vs MMA.........

and renovatio, it's not about having a "larger arsenal of tools." muay thai is not a better standup martial art than boxing no matter what anyone tells you.

uhhhh actually you're totally wrong? Arlovski was whooping fedor's ass like nobody's business until he STOPPED boxing. Well expressed argument, too bad it was wrong.

i LOVE boxing and like mma. boxing is far more interesting and entertaining to me but that doesn't mean i wont watch mma. all this talk about boxing is dying is absolute BS.

I'm glad to see that "cunt" doesn't get censored. Anyway, no one pays to see jiujitsu tournaments. I'm glad you brought up Royce, the first MMA champion. First of all, being the first doesn't mean anything. Second, what happened to Royce? As the sport evolved and guys learned stuff like takedown defense, he was forced to not only learn striking, but also take steroids. And he still lost. Fact - without boxing, MMA is not a viable business. PEOPLE WON'T PAY TO SEE GRAPPLING - NEVER HAVE, NEVER WILL. Punching doesn't = Boxing. Boxing has a certain science that goes with it. MMA has too small of gloves and too many other variables for boxing to work. MMA fighters that rely on BOXING = Suck(Joe Stevenson, Joe Lauzon etc). Its the truth. Chuck Liddell uses Hawaiin Kempo, Fedor uses Sambo, and once Arlovski began heavily using boxing he got KTFO... Boxing doesn't = success in MMA. It doesn't work in MMA.

I can watch some MMA (I do watch a little) but I'm not a fan of it and I don't think I ever will be. I respect the athletes and the sport, it's just not something I care for (like soccer, tennis, etc.).

muay thai may be more "complete" than boxing, but it's not better. neither is karate, neither is any other form of standup fighting. If you want to know how to fight, learn how to grapple, learn how to box. If you want to put on an event, consider banning grappling as it's less interesting to watch. Fedor and Arlovski are the prototypical MMA attractions. Both can genuinely fight, standing up or on the ground. Both tend to box. When one throws a flying knee, he tends to get knocked the **** out by the other. I believe that it is not fair to put a Muai-thai/Thai-boxer/Kick-boxer ( same as the other 2 but without elbows) in a same ring with a boxer. Both have boxing gloves , similar weight divisions ( as far I know), and forget karate that is something way diferent, but the thai fighter will have a larger arsenal of tools to work with a boxer in both close (elbow) and long range combat(kicks), as we all know in this world anything can happen, but you have to admit the thai fighter has a better chance. I am not saying that one is beter than the other. they are just diferent. IMHO Boxing is a bigger venue since the arsenal is limited to punches that makes fighters have to polish and train harder since it is the only thing they have as offence, and that makes the sport more competetive and interesting.

I love both sports but my heart lies with boxing...

HAHA..This dude knows his shit!! I'm not even gonna bother sending you some of my weak green k..You're gettin' a gift, buddy...Great post. Aghh..Of course all the gifts are out of stock..How in the hell can a E-gift go out of stock???

Here you go HAHA..This dude knows his shit!! I'm not even gonna bother sending you some of my weak green k..You're gettin' a gift, buddy...Great post.

muay thai may be more "complete" than boxing, but it's not better. neither is karate, neither is any other form of standup fighting. If you want to know how to fight, learn how to grapple, learn how to box. If you want to put on an event, consider banning grappling as it's less interesting to watch. Fedor and Arlovski are the prototypical MMA attractions. Both can genuinely fight, standing up or on the ground. Both tend to box. When one throws a flying knee, he tends to get knocked the **** out by the other.

Here you go Comparing the HBO PPV numbers to the UFC PPV numbers is the wrong formula on judging how healthy each sport is, people look at these numbers and automatically assume "Boxing is Dying" "We need to fix Boxing" "OMG" Lets break this down just to show how healthy the sports really are. One sport is MMA One sport Boxing MMA has had 3 major organizations die the past 2 years and that's not counting Bodogfights, Hardcore Championship Fighting soon to be Dream. IFL - The IFL was a MMA org that was founded March, 2005, in a very short time they were able to secure a deal with Fox Sports. Corporate sponsors such as Microsoft, Suzuki and Coca-Cola sign on, in November 2006 The company goes public. December 2007 "60 Minutes" prominently features IFL. Shortly after, its stock peaks at $17. March of 2007 MyNetworkTV begins screening IFL fights, June 2007 IFL shares fall to $1. December 2007 IFL's contract with MyNetworkTV ends. June 2008 IFL cancels an August event at the Izod Center, saying the company can't afford to stage it. The CEO says the league is looking for a buyer or partner. Oct 2008 the IFL sells for $650,000 - IFL DEAD PrideFC - PRIDE Fighting Championships was formed in 1997,they held more than sixty mixed martial arts events. During its ten years of operation, Pride was broadcast in 41 countries worldwide. Pride still holds the record for largest crowd for a MMA event at Tokyo National Stadium 91,107 in attendance. On June 5, 2006, Fuji Network announced that they were terminating their television contract with PRIDE Fighting Championships effective immediately due to a breach of contract, According to Fightopinion.com and a Japanese magazine called Shukan Gendai, Pride has been run and owned by the Yakuza(Japanese Mob) for some time. The owners of the UFC bought pride in March 2007 for a reported $70 million with the intentions of having another MMA brand in Japan, after failing to secure a TV deal in Japan, the new pride owner(Lorenzo Fertitta) was forced to shut down the company in October 2007. They fired the remaining 20 employees in Japan and closed it's offices. The UFC owners ended up paying $70 million for fighter contracts and a video library. - Pride Dead Elite XC - Elite Xtreme Combat was founded as a partnership between Showtime Networks Inc. and ProElite, Inc. Their first major event was in February, 2007, 1 year later it was reported that EliteXC had reached an agreement with CBS to broadcast EliteXC shows on prime time. The first show May 31, 2008 on CBS drew the highest ratings in the history of MMA in north america, it peaked at 6.5 million viewers watching the main event with Kimbo Slice against James Thompson. That week they ended up second in most watched sport shows on Television, the second Elite XC show on CBS on July, 26 was not what CBS was expecting. The ratings were down 40% from the first show, rumor were rampant that the company was hemorrhaging money but they still had Kimbo Slice so the next show had to be a blockbuster. October 4 was the next show and they scheduled Kimbo against well known 44 year old 1 - 7 in his last 8 fights Ken Shamrock, the plan an easy win for Kimbo huge ratings, sounds great. The day of the fight Shamrock pulls out with a cut and isn't allowed to fight, Kimbo has to face late sub and subsequently gets ko'd in 10 seconds. The ratings ended up being great but after the fight there were allegations of pay offs to keep the fight standing, The Florida state athletic commission starts an investigation to look into fight fixing. On October 21 it was reported that Elite XC would close it's doors by the end of the week, it was reported that in it's 2 years of existence the company had lost $55million . -Elite XC Dead Boxing The claims of boxing's death are greatly exaggerated, you will not be able to find a time when there has been this much boxing accessible to the general public. Network TV Telefutura(soon to be shifted to Azteca America) Telemundo Basic Cable ESPN Friday night fights (9 months out of the year) Versus - Fight Night Fox Sports Net- will begin airing notable overseas title bouts on a tape-delay basis about once per month as part of "Best Damn Sports Show Period." ESPN Classic - Boxing every night Golden Boy Promotions is working on a deal for a monthly boxing program on basic cable to feature prospects. Premium Cable HBO Has a Boxing budget of $60 million a year, they had 20 shows this year not counting PPV. Showtime has a Boxing budget of $20 million a year, they had 24 cards this year non on PPV. All these different channels are pumping money into the Boxing economy, here in the US not counting PPV buys or live gate. Non Us Boxing networks UK Setanta UK Nuts.tv UK ITV UK Sky Sports UK BBC Germany ARD Germany ZDF Mexico TV Azteca Canada Super Channel Canada TSN Live Gate The Top grossing gate in the history of MMA CHUCK LIDDELL vs. TITO ORTIZ II 12/30/06 $5,397,300 Top Boxing gates of the last 2 years FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR vs. OSCAR DE LA HOYA 05/05/07 $18,419,200 Oscar De La Hoya vs Pacquiao 12/6/08 $14,380,300 Ricky Hatton vs Juan Lazcano 5/24/08 $12,000,000 JOE CALZAGHE vs. BERNARD HOPKINS 04/19/08 $ 11,636,400 FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR vs. RICKY HATTON 12/08/07 $10,393,950 Biggest one fight purse for each sport in 2008 MMA Tim Sylvia - $800,000 Andre Arlovski -$749,690 Chuck Liddel l - $500,000 Kimbo Slice - $500,000 Brock Lesnar - $450,000 Forrest Griffin - $310,000 BJ Penn - $250,000 Randy Couture - $250,000 Anderson Silva - $200,000 Boxing Oscar Delahoya - $24,000,000 Felix Trinidad - $14,000,000 Wladimir Klitschko - $12,000,000 Manny Pacquiao - $11,000,000 Joe Calzaghe - $10,000,000 Roy Jones - $10,000,000 Bernard Hopkins - $8,000,000 Miguel Cotto - $7,000,000 Kelly Pavlik - $3,000,000 Which sport is dying again?? Boxing ain't going nowhere.

I'm glad to see that "cunt" doesn't get censored. Anyway, no one pays to see jiujitsu tournaments. I'm glad you brought up Royce, the first MMA champion. First of all, being the first doesn't mean anything. Second, what happened to Royce? As the sport evolved and guys learned stuff like takedown defense, he was forced to not only learn striking, but also take steroids. And he still lost. Fact - without boxing, MMA is not a viable business. PEOPLE WON'T PAY TO SEE GRAPPLING - NEVER HAVE, NEVER WILL. no one pays to see jiujitsu tournaments- true, but MMA is not all about Juijutsu. But is still a vital role in it. Second I brought up Royce because at that moment it was one style vs another, hence making the point of the role in grappeling in the MMA Sport. Third been the first does mean a lot, because you lay the fundation of something, of course some one will come along and perfect what you started, but still it does mean a looooot. What happend to royce... well he is more of a one sided fighter and learned a bit of muai thai but still. Also he did a fight vs matt hughes on UFC 60 and Matt just overpowered him. And as final opinion, Muai-Thai since is more of a complete striking form of art it ( Fist, elbows, and kicks) is the standard for striking in MMA, not boxing. And the grappelings... that is your opinion.. but like all diferent things we will see, there have been many MANy ufc nights without KO and still they keep filling the seats and growing. That only time will tell, you may not like it but we will see, and still grappeling is not all in MMA.

One massive problem with current MMA is that close quarters fighting without stuff like eye gouging, biting, groin shots etc. isn't much more "real" than boxing. It's just more boring.

refer to my sig. END OF THREAD.

Fact - without boxing, MMA is not a viable business. PEOPLE WON'T PAY TO SEE GRAPPLING - NEVER HAVE, NEVER WILL. Without boxing MMA already proved to be more than a viable business as a no holds barred fighting attraction. People were flocking by the millions to see the raw primal brutality of a karate blackbelt beating the crap out of a 300lb bouncer. But right wing conservative idiots got the ufc banned from pretty much every state on the grounds of it being primitively barbaric. The ufc with rules and regulations u see now is very watered down version of what the UFC was originally envisioned as. So much so that it is hardly recognizable from its protoype predecessor.

I'm glad to see that "cunt" doesn't get censored. Anyway, no one pays to see jiujitsu tournaments. I'm glad you brought up Royce, the first MMA champion. First of all, being the first doesn't mean anything. Second, what happened to Royce? As the sport evolved and guys learned stuff like takedown defense, he was forced to not only learn striking, but also take steroids. And he still lost. Fact - without boxing, MMA is not a viable business. PEOPLE WON'T PAY TO SEE GRAPPLING - NEVER HAVE, NEVER WILL.

Anyone who says boxing is a dead sport is a stupid cunt with a weak mind who's probably into trendy bullshit and has no concept of truth or quality. point one - people pay to see knockouts, period. Notice the trends in mma - standing guys up. The only guys who get bigs bucks in mma rely heavily on boxing. Fedor, Chuck, Arlovski. point two - those guys also happen to be the best of the best. Even if MMA were to take over completely, which it won't, boxing would still form the FOUNDATION of the sport. Knockouts make the business work, boxing makes the competitors win. Well I agree with the part that boxing is not fading and will not die. But I would like to partially differ in you other 2 points. In point one yes most people were going to see some one get there lights knocked out but as the sport is growinig the knowledge of the fan base to, so I do not believe that the vast mayority of MMA fans go just to se a KO. And the part of boxing making competitors win... I do know about that one , do not see it that way. And in continuation of the boxing part as the fundation of MMA... That is not true. In the early chapters of the UFC Brazilian Jui Jitsu was the dominant martial art, Royce Gracie won 3 out of the first 4 UFC tournaments. Now MMA mostly is composed of Brazilian Jui Jitsu ( the standard in ground work) and Muai-Thai (The standard in stand up striking). And making something clear, I love and enjoy boxing. For now I say I prefer boxing but can not take for granted the inmense success the MMA guys are havins specially UFC, and they reserve there respect.

Anyone who says boxing is a dead sport is a stupid cunt with a weak mind who's probably into trendy bullshit and has no concept of truth or quality. point one - people pay to see knockouts, period. Notice the trends in mma - standing guys up. The only guys who get bigs bucks in mma rely heavily on boxing. Fedor, Chuck, Arlovski. point two - those guys also happen to be the best of the best. Even if MMA were to take over completely, which it won't, boxing would still form the FOUNDATION of the sport. Knockouts make the business work, boxing makes the competitors win.

Well it's true...Boxing is all based on punching...MMA more than half the time is spent on the ground..So that is why there are more deaths in boxing.. Yes boxing is based on punching. That's why its called boxing. MMA you may end up spending half the time on the ground by the nature of the sport but you phrase it as if they would all prefer to roll around and hold hands as opposed to actually fighting. The reason MMA has never had any deaths is simple. In boxing when a fighter is hurt, they clinch. If the ref breaks them up before the fighter has recovered...they will continue to take punishment. Sometimes to the point of unecessary punishment. In MMA when a fighter is rocked he can clinch but not only will the ref not break it up...but a good fighter will be able to generate offense from the clinch while buying enough time to recover from getting rocked.

UFC 96... happened like two months ago? Quinton Jackson ($325,000 - includes $100,000 win bonus) def. Keith Jardine ($55,000) (main event) Shane Carwin ($32,000 - includes $16,000 win bonus) def. Gabriel Gonzaga ($60,000) Matt Brown ($16,000 - includes $8,000 win bonus) def. Pete Sell ($12,000) Matt Hamill ($40,000 - includes $20,000 win bonus) def. Mark Munoz ($12,000) Gray Maynard ($20,000 - includes $10,000 win bonus) def. Jim Miller ($9,000) Tamdan McCrory ($20,000 - includes $10,000 win bonus) def. Ryan Madigan ($3,000) Kendall Grove ($44,000 - includes $22,000 win bonus) def. Jason Day ($5,000) Jason Brilz ($10,000 - includes $5,000 win bonus) def. Tim Boetsch ($12,000) Brandon Vera ($60,000 - includes $30,000 win bonus) def. Mike Patt ($5,000) Shane Nelson ($16,000 - includes $8,000 win bonus) def. Aaron Riley ($6,000) Bonus awards: Fighters were awarded $60,000 bonuses. Fight of the Night: Quinton Jackson vs. Keith Jardine Knockout of the Night: Matt Hamill Submission of the Night: Not awarded as no matches ended with submission