Is Freddie Roach capable of creating a plan to beat Floyd Jr?

Roach is the best trainer in the game for me, he can really bring out the best in fighters tactically which I think is often underated. Reason being so much has been made of size in recent fights, amongst other things, and generally great tactics have been the deciding factor. Roach is good at a quick short term effective game plan as with ODL and Khan amongst others, and he's developed Manny into a very perceptive, tactical, well rounded, composed, disciplined fighter imo. So yes he's one of, if not the most capable of creating an effective game plan to beat Floyd, esp since he's trained someone to fight him before to see what works and doesn't. The deciding factor is how well Manny does it - and recent performances although not as good competition, show he is increasingly becoming very disciplined, tight, and excuting what he's supposed to well. The next factor is how much Floyd adapts, and whether Roach has answers for those, he will to some extent but you can't predict everything and that's where it could get messy. But for me, Roach is the most perceptive trainer in the game, and by being with Manny for so long, that relationship is leading it to be instilled in Manny a lot. So they have a way better shot than JMM.

They've also got beaten up more than "others" too, that's my point, i mean i felt sorry for Corely in the end as he was getting tagged pretty bad and Judah was on the verge of getting ko'd before he done a low blow, so yes Floyd got clipped a few times against two southpaws, but he still proved he can get the better of them with ease when he clicks into gear, and when you consider the importance of a clash against Pac, i can see him clicking into gear from the first bell to be honest. Save for Mitchell - who was washed up and already out the door, I don't know how Corley got beat up more than others. Or Zab. Again, you miss the point. The point isn't to say that Floyd would lose to Pac - which is what you're harping on (don't be so pro-Floyd, just let the debate flow!) - it's to say that there are things that Roach would obviously use in gameplanning against Floyd. And his early struggles against southpaws is certainly one of them.

What is your point...? Just curious. Yes, he came back and won all of those...it doesn't change the fact that southpaws have had more success against him than most others. They've also got beaten up more than "others" too, that's my point, i mean i felt sorry for Corely in the end as he was getting tagged pretty bad and Judah was on the verge of getting ko'd before he done a low blow, so yes Floyd got clipped a few times against two southpaws, but he still proved he can get the better of them with ease when he clicks into gear, and when you consider the importance of a clash against Pac, i can see him clicking into gear from the first bell to be honest.

Who knows if he's capable. Is Pac capable of adjusting to Floyd? I've seen Floyd make adjustments against DLH, Judah, Castillo... Roach mite give Pac a gameplan but what happens when Floyd adjusts to it? Does Pacquiao have the boxing brain to be able to counter-adjust? Roach can't save him during the fight...Only one way to find out.

The thing is you are trying to use those fights as some sort of "example" that Floyd isn't comfortable facing southpaws when the fact is he murdered all three of those dudes in the end :rofl:, the way you're talking you'd think Floyd was all on the floore and taking untold punishment, YES he got caught a few times but he ADJUSTED which is the main thing, i would think he would watch those tapes back also and contrive not to make any of those mistakes again, also was the so called "kd" even scored as a kd? i don't even think it was lol. What is your point...? Just curious. Yes, he came back and won all of those...it doesn't change the fact that southpaws have had more success against him than most others.

I was so sick of hearing that Pacquiao had been "KO'd by body shots twice" I made a thread on it. Well it did look like a body shot from first glance, but never the less whether it was a "body shot" or not Manny got laid flat out.

He got hit, his glove touched the canvas. No one said he was hurt, we said he got knocked down. They count off-balance ones too, you know? Whatever...you're right. Floyd has no flaws. Corley managed to hurt him because he moved up in weight. Same with Zab. And Mitchell touched him up because it was a new division for Floyd. Ironically...ALL OF THOSE GUYS fought in lower divisions as well. The thing is you are trying to use those fights as some sort of "example" that Floyd isn't comfortable facing southpaws when the fact is he murdered all three of those dudes in the end :rofl:, the way you're talking you'd think Floyd was all on the floore and taking untold punishment, YES he got caught a few times but he ADJUSTED which is the main thing, i would think he would watch those tapes back also and contrive not to make any of those mistakes again, also was the so called "kd" even scored as a kd? i don't even think it was lol.

Amen to that. It was more of a low blow, to a headbutt combination that laid him out. I was so sick of hearing that Pacquiao had been "KO'd by body shots twice" I made a thread on it. http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265628 100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

Come on now the so called "kd" was clearly more about Floyd being off balance than anything else :439:, another thing we have to consider is Floyd was moving up in weight when he faced those southpaws, and he was still to reach his peak form which i think was his performance against Hatton, yes Freddy can study those fights but the thing is on all occasions Floyd learned and adjusted, so he's at least proven that he can deal with it, the question is has Manny learned how to deal with a counter puncher? he didn't seem to in the second fight against Jmm and he hasn't faced anyone with that amount of countering ability since then. He got hit, his glove touched the canvas. No one said he was hurt, we said he got knocked down. They count off-balance ones too, you know? Whatever...you're right. Floyd has no flaws. Corley managed to hurt him because he moved up in weight. Same with Zab. And Mitchell touched him up because it was a new division for Floyd. Ironically...ALL OF THOSE GUYS fought in lower divisions as well.

Not only that, but one of these "body shot KO's" doesn't even exist. FACT: MP was KO'd only once by a body shot while weight drained. It was to a nobody. If he was sensitive to the body, over the last 10 years some great fighters such as Barrera (very good body puncher) and Morales would have taken advantage. Pacquiao is sensitive to body shots = myth. Amen to that. It was more of a low blow, to a headbutt combination that laid him out.

Yes, Roach is more than capable of creating a plan to beat Floyd. Floyd's game usually consists of jabbing when he's out in space to take advantage of his huge reach and then anticipating punches when in mid-range....wait til the other guy overextends....then potshot. Manny has alot more tools in his arsenal now than he did before...and he's become just as intelligent a fighter as floyd and marquez himself. If i were to guess what the plan would be for mayweather I would say it's to attack head-on in an attempt to smother him....throw in some feints somewhere to get floyd to commit to a counter...then counter the counter....go straight at floyd expexting the slick lateral movement...and throw a right hook when floyd moves to the left. Somewhere along those lines.

Those bodyshot KO's were so long ago. Not only that, but one of these "body shot KO's" doesn't even exist. FACT: MP was KO'd only once by a body shot while weight drained. It was to a nobody. If he was sensitive to the body, over the last 10 years some great fighters such as Barrera (very good body puncher) and Morales would have taken advantage. Pacquiao is sensitive to body shots = myth. 100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

Silky...actually Corley landed several good shots early on, including a beautiful straight left right on the button that drove Floyd a few steps back. And while Floyd did go on to win those fights convincingly, it's those flaws that a trainer will look to capitalize on. Especially if you see a pattern (Mitchell getting through, Corley getting through, Zab even scoring a KD). Come on now the so called "kd" was clearly more about Floyd being off balance than anything else :439:, another thing we have to consider is Floyd was moving up in weight when he faced those southpaws, and he was still to reach his peak form which i think was his performance against Hatton, yes Freddy can study those fights but the thing is on all occasions Floyd learned and adjusted, so he's at least proven that he can deal with it, the question is has Manny learned how to deal with a counter puncher? he didn't seem to in the second fight against Jmm and he hasn't faced anyone with that amount of countering ability since then.

One thing Marquez has over Floyd is he counters in combination. He'll land a solid counter punch then finish with an excellent combination. Floyd does not put his punches together as well or as often. And if Floyd has to open up against a good southpaw who can punch (not Corely or Mitchell), who actually throws punches (not Judah), then he will be hit a lot more than he's used to.

No one is unbeatable--of course Roach can come up with the right plan. Whether Manny can execute it is another story. I remember a few months before Floyd Mayweather moved to 140, I was talking to a former matchmaker who's knowledge of the sport may be unparallelled today (no BS). We were discussing a possible Judah-Mayweather bout down the line and he mentioned that Floyd would have trouble early because 1. all fighters tend to against southpaws and 2. Floyd especially had trouble with them. When I asked him why he said that, he pointed to a fight very early in his career (pro or amateur, I'm not sure) where he said Floyd was hurt pretty seriously by a lefty. I kinda forgot about that until DeMarcus Corley rocked Floyd with the right hook and scraped him with straight lefts even before that. Then I watched Sharmba Mitchell enjoy small success early against Floyd...then Zab (even knocking Floyd down). Now I can't help but think about what that matchmaker said. I don't know if Pacquiao's disciplined enough but I'm sure Roach knows what's up. Let's not forget that when he was fighting as a welter, Buddy McGirt used to claim that he had the blueprint to beat the supposedly unbeatable Roy Jones. Who would have ever guessed that nearly a decade later, he'd be the guy training the PERFECT fighter to do it. And how did they know? because a lanky southpaw named Frankie Liles dropped Jones in the amateurs. And then Lou Del Valle did it as a pro. No one is unbeatable. .....good analysis

I'm not sure Manny can handle body shots either as he's been ko'd twice by them. That's not true. 100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

Freddy Roach said that Manny will knock him out and that will probably be. Roach is 2-0 in last two predictions! He needs to give teddy atlas some advice then

Vice versa though..If JMM can connect with big shots on Manny so will floyd There's a counter for every Argument I'm not sure Manny can handle body shots either as he's been ko'd twice by them, and the one thing Floyd has targeted quite a lot against Southpaws is the body.

The thing is though Corely got schooled in the end and so did Judah, if those fights were as tough for Floyd as Manny's were against Jmm i could understand that but in the end the decisions were never in doubt, Floyd adapted and broke them down easily in the end, and i don't even think he had a problem with Corely anyway, i mean ANY FIGHTER can get caught, that's the way the game is, and that punch was probably the only thing Corely landed in the whole fight, he had Cotto in a much worser state with the same kind of punch so it's not like Floyd was the only one. Silky...actually Corley landed several good shots early on, including a beautiful straight left right on the button that drove Floyd a few steps back. And while Floyd did go on to win those fights convincingly, it's those flaws that a trainer will look to capitalize on. Especially if you see a pattern (Mitchell getting through, Corley getting through, Zab even scoring a KD).

No one is unbeatable--of course Roach can come up with the right plan. Whether Manny can execute it is another story. I remember a few months before Floyd Mayweather moved to 140, I was talking to a former matchmaker who's knowledge of the sport may be unparallelled today (no BS). We were discussing a possible Judah-Mayweather bout down the line and he mentioned that Floyd would have trouble early because 1. all fighters tend to against southpaws and 2. Floyd especially had trouble with them. When I asked him why he said that, he pointed to a fight very early in his career (pro or amateur, I'm not sure) where he said Floyd was hurt pretty seriously by a lefty. I kinda forgot about that until DeMarcus Corley rocked Floyd with the right hook and scraped him with straight lefts even before that. Then I watched Sharmba Mitchell enjoy small success early against Floyd...then Zab (even knocking Floyd down). Now I can't help but think about what that matchmaker said. I don't know if Pacquiao's disciplined enough but I'm sure Roach knows what's up. Let's not forget that when he was fighting as a welter, Buddy McGirt used to claim that he had the blueprint to beat the supposedly unbeatable Roy Jones. Who would have ever guessed that nearly a decade later, he'd be the guy training the PERFECT fighter to do it. And how did they know? because a lanky southpaw named Frankie Liles dropped Jones in the amateurs. And then Lou Del Valle did it as a pro. No one is unbeatable. The thing is though Corely got schooled in the end and so did Judah, if those fights were as tough for Floyd as Manny's were against Jmm i could understand that but in the end the decisions were never in doubt, Floyd adapted and broke them down easily in the end, and i don't even think he had a problem with Corely anyway, i mean ANY FIGHTER can get caught, that's the way the game is, and that punch was probably the only thing Corely landed in the whole fight, he had Cotto in a much worser state with the same kind of punch so it's not like Floyd was the only one.