Juan Baby Bull Diaz and the cut factor

Agreed but it is part of boxing and I have seen marquez cut and he didn't seem to get worried. maybe a sense of ergency because he didn't want the fight stopped because of it. But if you get cut in two of your last three fights then maybe it is time to think about hiring a better cut man??? Look at Roy Jones in the Calzaghe fight he was cut and they couldn't do sh@t. i am not saying that he would have won the fight but like said it is hard enough fighting a World Class opponent with two good eyes imagine fighting Calzaghe or Marquez with one. That being said I still think the mind was affected way before his vision was....Lefty I saw another thread where someone suggested Paulie should just head butt Juan and open him up. They said he cannot fight when he sees his own blood. So I brought this thread back....Lefty

You havn't seen Zabs fight with Cotto? That was brutal and he took it like a man. People act like cuts are not going to effect people. Juan said that in the Marquez fight he can't see because the blood is in his eye. Fighting Marquez partially blind will give any fighter huge problems. Agreed but it is part of boxing and I have seen marquez cut and he didn't seem to get worried. maybe a sense of ergency because he didn't want the fight stopped because of it. But if you get cut in two of your last three fights then maybe it is time to think about hiring a better cut man??? Look at Roy Jones in the Calzaghe fight he was cut and they couldn't do sh@t. i am not saying that he would have won the fight but like said it is hard enough fighting a World Class opponent with two good eyes imagine fighting Calzaghe or Marquez with one. That being said I still think the mind was affected way before his vision was....Lefty

he is similar to judah..when he's hurt he falls apart..but atleast he didnt quit though i give him credit for taking his beating like a man..so scratch that judah partYou havn't seen Zabs fight with Cotto? That was brutal and he took it like a man. People act like cuts are not going to effect people. Juan said that in the Marquez fight he can't see because the blood is in his eye. Fighting Marquez partially blind will give any fighter huge problems.

I am bringing this one back August 22nd is approaching rapidly. My thought is how will this fight play out? I know Paulie is not a big puncher but what if Juan gets cut again? Do you see a cut against Paulie having the same effect it has had on Juan in his two losses against Campbell and Marquez?......Lefty

When I watched the fight a second time, it confirmed to me that he didn't fold after being cut. Fold as in give up or stop trying to win. What happened was, he had no defense anymore. JMM turned up the heat and Diaz couldn't avoid any punches. If he would have folded, he wouldn't have won the first half of round nine with a consistant stiff jab. I am not saying he completely folded I am saying you could see the expression on his face like DAMN it is happening again. his body language changed he backed off a little bit and gave marquez that space to execute his upper cut and cross...Lefty

When I watched the fight a second time, it confirmed to me that he didn't fold after being cut. Fold as in give up or stop trying to win. What happened was, he had no defense anymore. JMM turned up the heat and Diaz couldn't avoid any punches. If he would have folded, he wouldn't have won the first half of round nine with a consistant stiff jab.

making diaz bleed is definitely the way to beat him This was my thought adn the reason why I created this thread...Lefty

It's amazing how he fell apart in both fights after the cut. Maybe he can't stand the sight of his own blood. making diaz bleed is definitely the way to beat him

I saw in both fights that at almost the same point in which Diaz received the cuts, his entire style changed as well as his facial expression- from confident to concerned. He was all up on Marquez the entire fight until he received the cut. Almost immediately after, he is standing about an extra foot or two away from Marquez and less active. I'm sure the body shots were messing him up, no doubt about that; however he was scared of getting tagged in that eye (I assume) and the extra distance allowed Marquez to land his uppercuts with leverage. After the distance was there, two rounds is all it took. I saw it the same his whole face changed and yes he fought hard but he did step back a little bit and give JMM more room to punch and the sapce given allowed full extension on those punches.,...Lefty

It's amazing how he fell apart in both fights after the cut. Maybe he can't stand the sight of his own blood. i agree with this... he was not clearly dominating.....but for me.. in a close fight he was winning with jmm landing the more accurate shots!! but as soon as he saw his blood... se juyo..!!

A lot of people have been claiming that, but I dissagree. It was more a result of the body work and all the pin point fluish shots accumilating and takign their toll. Even before the cut you could see from about the 6th round on that the tide was turning and Marquez was landing almost at will where as Dias was missing so many of his shots. The cut may have accelerated his demise, but Marquez would have knocked Diaz out regardless, there was just a disparity in class between the two fighters. I saw in both fights that at almost the same point in which Diaz received the cuts, his entire style changed as well as his facial expression- from confident to concerned. He was all up on Marquez the entire fight until he received the cut. Almost immediately after, he is standing about an extra foot or two away from Marquez and less active. I'm sure the body shots were messing him up, no doubt about that; however he was scared of getting tagged in that eye (I assume) and the extra distance allowed Marquez to land his uppercuts with leverage. After the distance was there, two rounds is all it took.

Agine to all you morons how can a fighter who has blood going in his eye going to win aginst a fighter like jmm. if you cant see the punch coming you going to get ko. baby bull said him selfe he couldnt see sh#it so this bullcrap all of you are saying seeing his own blood goes to his head thats bullsh#it both Nate and JMM work on the body to get the win

He's a warrior until he sees a drop of blood then he hates violence. Pretty sad. Sad is the performance Pavlik put on against Hopkins.

Some fighters come on stronger at the site of their own blood, maybe gettin pissed or just thinkin it could get em a TKO loss. Other guys just go into a shell and become more defensive. I ain't criticizin Juan for losin the fights where he got cut cuz both times he went down swingin. He just seemed to lose some of his strength cuz he was usin offense as defense to protect himself as opposed to tryin to really beat his man down. I agree with you to some respect that fighers react in those ways when cut. I also agree with other posters that the fight waqs shifting prior to the cut and that JMM was landing the more prcise shots. The true question to my thread and what i really wanted to dicuss is the fact that Juan Diaz lost both fights he was cut in and that his behavior changed and you could see it externally on his face. In this fight with Marquez he Marques was also cut but I didn't get the same feeling when he got cut that i did when Baby Bull got cut....Lefty

Some fighters come on stronger at the site of their own blood, maybe gettin pissed or just thinkin it could get em a TKO loss. Other guys just go into a shell and become more defensive. I ain't criticizin Juan for losin the fights where he got cut cuz both times he went down swingin. He just seemed to lose some of his strength cuz he was usin offense as defense to protect himself as opposed to tryin to really beat his man down.

The cut happened in the 8th round, the tide started to change in the 6th. Diaz took a lot of hard shots from Marquez, he just got worn down. Cut or no cut the result would've been the same.

all OF YOU SEEM TO FOR GET HE COULDT SEE OUT OF HIS EYE BLOOD WAS FLOWING OVER HIS EYE ITS NOT LIKE HE WAS FIGHTING A BUM BUT FIGHTNG JMM IF YOU CANT SEE FROM ONE EYE FIGHTING A GUY LIKE JMM YOU ARE SCREWED SO THIS BULLCRAP ABOUT BABYBULL GIVEING UP ITS BULLSH#IT HE WAS TRYING TO BUY SOME TIME FOR HIS TEAM TO WORK ON THE CUT BUT JMM GOT HIM OUT BEFOR THEY COULD DO ANY REAL WORK PLUS I THINK HIS CUT TEAM SUCKS ASS

A lot of people have been claiming that, but I dissagree. It was more a result of the body work and all the pin point fluish shots accumilating and takign their toll. Even before the cut you could see from about the 6th round on that the tide was turning and Marquez was landing almost at will where as Dias was missing so many of his shots. The cut may have accelerated his demise, but Marquez would have knocked Diaz out regardless, there was just a disparity in class between the two fighters. I'm with you Marquez was beating that body down. Diaz did slow down before the cut. I'm just not sure of the delayed knock down.

Could be the cut, could be he just fought two very good fighters. Campbell has a tough style that Diaz couldn't figure out and JMM is a legend. I think people are counting Diaz out to soon, he can still be a force in this division because he's so young.

Ok fellas I am a few days late on this but I have to post this thread regardless. I saw the fight Saturday night and let me say this the fight with Rocky was entertaining and I was impressed with the way Rocky hung in there and continued going after John in the late rounds. Diaz had me very excitied i first saw him a few years back and I could always remember him by his mother screaming loudly in the back round. I know you have heard her before yelling go get him juan yeah Juan thats it and other touts from ring side. Diaz had me ready to jump off my seat and a part of me was hoping he would finish JMM in the 3rd or 4th round. He was pushing the action and landing shots on the ropes but as Max pointed out Marquez was landing the harder clean shots. Still i was very excited and confident that Diaz would be able to win this bout if not on a stoppage then on points as he was the more aggressive and active fighter. Well this is the most case for him. Then I saw the cut...I was like oh sh@t here we go again Nate Campbell all over again. I just knew it I could see the moxy and brash confidence that he was displaying early on just drain from his body as he whipped the blood form his eye with his glove. It was like his whole face just changed and he lost all his stregth and courage. The round ended and he went to the corner and they were talking to him and all he was saying was how bad is it how bad is it. I will say this Juan Diaz is a very exciting fighter to watch but if he is going to be that easy to beat onc ehe gets cut then he will never reach his true potetioal. I was wondering did anyone see the fight shift so quickly as I did once he was cut?,.....Lefty yep i saw the shift and have been trying to explain this to other posters. diaz was winning untill he was cut. so blatant to see