Complaint: The Ring's p4p list

huh?? He was in the top 10 prior to losing to bhop, who is ranked #4 and the people upset about no heavyweights, well no shit heavyweights aren't supposed to be ranked in the pound 4 pound rankings.why not? Pound for pound means that if your took everyone and made them teh same weight they would be the best right? So why exclude Hw's?

NO Heavyweights in the top 25? thats harsh man, really harsh, did Wlad dry hump your mother or something?. thats a joke btw...

Here is my list: 1) MANNY PACQUIAO 2) JOE CALZAGHE 3) JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ 4) BERNARD HOPKINS 5) ISRAEL VAZQUEZ 6) SHANE MOSLEY 7) IVAN CALDERON 8) VIC DARCHINYAN 9) PAUL WILLIAMS 10) RAFAEL MARQUEZ I was tempted to put R Marquez higher, but i just can't when he has lost his last 2 fights, even though they were close fights. Shane Mosley has taken Margarito's place but he looks too high to me, but then again if i move him down then i can't think of anyone else worthy of being number 6 P4P so he will stay there for the time being. Vic deserves to be where he is and Paul Williams i think finally deserves to be in there.

Pac, Calzaghe and Marquez are interchangable at 1-3 IMO. Although I have Pac at #1, Marquez beat Pac in their last fight IMO and he's got disproportionate praise for his two recent wins ... great though they were. Calzaghe either gets ridiculous criticism or excessive praise (usually in retaliation to the rubbish written about him).

sorry Mozza but your argument loses more and more credibility each post you make i'm a big fan of Joe but some people really take it to extremes My argument is that Calzaghe has performed better than Marquez of late. Everything else is a side issue however I notice that pretty much none of my points have been refuted.

sorry Mozza but your argument loses more and more credibility each post you make i'm a big fan of Joe but some people really take it to extremes Also, on the subject of The Ring's ratings..... In what sense does Hatton deserve to be above Darchinyan??? Darchinyan's victory over Mijares is probably actually better than any Hatton win, not to mention he looked great in the process I'm pretty certain that Darch would mop the floor with Hatton in a hypothetical match-up And he's looked very impressive since his loss to Donaire (last 4 fights), while Hatton's last four fights are; a simple but hardly credible win over a shot to pieces Castillo, an utter domination at the hands of Mayweather - i mean, the whooping he recieved was so bad it nullifies the retort of "there's no shame in losing to the p4p #1", a shaky performance over a shot contender who was coming off the back of a loss, and Paulie Malignaggi - a pretty average victory all things considered. Certainly no match for Darch's last win anyway

There's more to performance level than just being agile and gunning your arms 1000 times. If that's the critique for top notch performance level than Paul Williams is the best boxer on the planet. You're knocking Tarver in a fight he won pretty easy bottom line and against a better 'a little confidence left' Jones than Cal originally said was a waste of time to fight and then fought instead of fighting Tarver (who wanted to fight). Singling Tarver as not performing highly against a Jones he was in no real danger of losing once it got serious is ridiculous when he made the man his boy and into the current state he is in.. That's a failed argument imv. You had the nerve to stick Tito in there like it was worth something too. I don't know if you missed the initial point I responded or whether you are being deliberately ingorant but for the avoidance of doubt here it is: "How can anyone's level of performance NOT be high against Jones?" I replied by citing Tarver's and Tito's performances. I have since clarified that I was referring to Tarver's third match with Jones which was less than inspiring. If you disagree with that then fine but mentioning that Tarver was responsible for putting Jones in his current state is irrelevant and incorrect quite frankly. As for Tito, why the hell shouldn't I mention him? The point was that anybody would look good against Roy, not anybody except a shot Tito Trinidad. Uhh and Marquez arguably beat the #1 p4p fighter on the planet 2x and looks for some of the biggest fights he can muster. Your boy is hiding away in his shed trying to figure out how to get away with fighting Froch in a farewell fight if he boxes again, other than taking on Hopkins, Dawson or Johnson. This is complete rubbish. Calzaghe stated he would consider retirement long ago. Implying that he is ducking Dawson is clutching at straws. Suggesting he is ducking Hopkins who he beat less than 12 months ago is absurd. Hinting that he is ducking Johnson is laughable, especially when you're simultaneously criticising Carl Froch. I happen to take balls into account when I rate a fighter p4p when the ranking gets tough. Calzaghe's balls are massive. How do I know? Because I can only fit one in my mouth at a time. A guy Calzaghe's age just KTFO of the legit top fighter in his weight class just because he was feeling like that. He's not retiring when he knows there still some business to be taken care of. Mayweather done it. It is up to each fighter to decide when they want to call it a day.

*double post*

Do you think mentioning one punch in a fight proves anything? Jones had Tarver in trouble as well, so what? My point, which you have consistently failed to address, is that Calzaghe's level of performance is higher than JMM's. You've failed to address that very simple point in every other post so I won't hold my breath waiting for you to do so now. There's more to performance level than just being agile and gunning your arms 1000 times. If that's the critique for top notch performance level than Paul Williams is the best boxer on the planet. You're knocking Tarver in a fight he won pretty easy bottom line and against a better 'a little confidence left' Jones than Cal originally said was a waste of time to fight and then fought instead of fighting Tarver (who wanted to fight). Singling Tarver as not performing highly against a Jones he was in no real danger of losing once it got serious is ridiculous when he made the man his boy and into the current state he is in.. That's a failed argument imv. You had the nerve to stick Tito in there like it was worth something too. Uhh and Marquez arguably beat the #1 p4p fighter on the planet 2x and looks for some of the biggest fights he can muster. Your boy is hiding away in his shed trying to figure out how to get away with fighting Froch in a farewell fight if he boxes again, other than taking on Hopkins, Dawson or Johnson. I happen to take balls into account when I rate a fighter p4p when the ranking gets tough. A guy Calzaghe's age just KTFO of the legit top fighter in his weight class just because he was feeling like that. He's not retiring when he knows there still some business to be taken care of. Also something I consider when analyzing the top of the p4p ranks as it gets tough.

Tarver nearly knocked out Roy with another single counter in that fight lol. Man just stop. Your boy couldn't put away a beyond broken man and got dropped in the first round against him. There's no way you an argue Calzaghe's last fights make him look better than Marquez other than the fact that he has the "W" in all of them. Do you think mentioning one punch in a fight proves anything? Jones had Tarver in trouble as well, so what? My point, which you have consistently failed to address, is that Calzaghe's level of performance is higher than JMM's. You've failed to address that very simple point in every other post so I won't hold my breath waiting for you to do so now.

1. Manny Pacquiao 2. Juan Manuel Marquez 3. Joe Calzaghe 4. Bernard Hopkins 5. Israel Vazquez 6. Shane Mosley 7. Rafael Marquez 8. Ivan Calderon 9. Ricky Hatton 10. Celestino Caballero ----------------------------------------------------------- I dislike Calzaghe, but why is he not number 2? I also dislike Vic Darchinyan, but why is Shane Mosley, all of a sudden, catapulted up to number six? Vic, imo, accomplished more by winning the WBC, WBA, IBF belts by beating Dimitri Kirilov and the very talented and once p4p fighter, Cristian Mijares. Celestino Caballero? Ricky Hatton? okay, I guess... is today's p4p lists based on a fighter's style or more on accomplishments? someone explain Ring's reasoning to me I could go either way on Calzaghe vs JMM when it comes to the #2 spot, especially when we are just talking degrees of greatness (I mean its a sport with 1000's upon 1000s of participant and this is for the #2 spot). I do think there are probably some more deserving candidates for that #10 spot than Caballero (though I do like him as a boxer, and feel he is also in that area) one of those being Darchinyan. My main complaint is them giving a pitty spot to Ivan Calderon, likely just based on him carrying around that "0". The guy's resume is more empty than Calzaghe's (who people still complain about). I know he fights in a weak division, but even so its no reason to reward him especially since he never cleaned out minimum or light fly.

Whether Tito is more done than Roy is frankly irrelevant to the point I was responding to. As for Tarver, I'm talking specifically about their third fight. Jones was humped but Tarver looked lackadaisical, uninterested and at times came close to throwing away what should have been a routine victory. In short, typical Tarver. Tarver nearly knocked out Roy with another single counter in that fight lol. Man just stop. Your boy couldn't put away a beyond broken man and got dropped in the first round against him. There's no way you an argue Calzaghe's last fights make him look better than Marquez other than the fact that he has the "W" in all of them.

1. Manny Pacquiao 2. Juan Manuel Marquez 3. Joe Calzaghe 4. Bernard Hopkins 5. Israel Vazquez 6. Shane Mosley 7. Rafael Marquez 8. Ivan Calderon 9. Ricky Hatton 10. Celestino Caballero ----------------------------------------------------------- I dislike Calzaghe, but why is he not number 2? I also dislike Vic Darchinyan, but why is Shane Mosley, all of a sudden, catapulted up to number six? Vic, imo, accomplished more by winning the WBC, WBA, IBF belts by beating Dimitri Kirilov and the very talented and once p4p fighter, Cristian Mijares. Celestino Caballero? Ricky Hatton? okay, I guess... is today's p4p lists based on a fighter's style or more on accomplishments? someone explain Ring's reasoning to me WTF Rafael Marquez doing in the p4p list? He lost his last two fights..... They rank Manuel Marquez too high... He lost to Pac p4p no.1 and won against shot past prime Casamayor then they put him @ no. 2 spot? No fukin way.... Here's my non bias p4p list: 1.Pacquiao 2.Calzaghe 3.Hopkins 4.Marquez 5.Vasquez 6.Mosley 7.Calderon 8.Cotto 9.Hatton 10.Darchinyan

^ That is some serious fan boy shit. I won't even bother dissecting the whole thing. I stopped after your Tito and Tarver answer really. Tito is more done than Jones and Tarver's performances against Roy were all high. That includes a KTFO in 2 rounds against a better version of the man your boy fought. You can't be serious with your reply. Whether Tito is more done than Roy is frankly irrelevant to the point I was responding to. As for Tarver, I'm talking specifically about their third fight. Jones was humped but Tarver looked lackadaisical, uninterested and at times came close to throwing away what should have been a routine victory. In short, typical Tarver.

Very easily. Ask Tito or Tarver. Of course he looked like a pro fighter. What a stupid thing to say. Given that he won twice as many rounds as Hopkins then I don't know what else it can be called other than domination. Not the only fight in recent times. And? Calzaghe done exactly what we would expect a top fighter to do. If you are going to do it I would prefer if you discussed his level of performance in each of his fights because you haven't really done that in any meaningful way for Joe's. ^ That is some serious fan boy shit. I won't even bother dissecting the whole thing. I stopped after your Tito and Tarver answer really. Tito is more done than Jones and Tarver's performances against Roy were all high. That includes a KTFO in 2 rounds against a better version of the man your boy fought. You can't be serious with your reply.

Will people stop saying Hatton barely beat Lazcano, please. 11-1 is not barely.

Jones: How can anyone's level of performance NOT be high against Jones? Very easily. Ask Tito or Tarver. Hopkins: If you actually believed Calzaghe preformed at a high level in this fight, if you actually believe he dominated in this fight, if you actually believed he looked like an actual PRO fighter in this fight, then it isn't even worth continuing this debate beyond this point. Of course he looked like a pro fighter. What a stupid thing to say. Given that he won twice as many rounds as Hopkins then I don't know what else it can be called other than domination. Kessler: The only fight in RECENT times where Calzaghe truly looked like a p4p fighter. He didn't exactly dominate, but adjusted and won a clear decision against an undefeated, skilled and tough champion. Not the only fight in recent times. Manfredo: Really worthy of Calzaghe's time? Not even a NAME for a resume. And? Calzaghe done exactly what we would expect a top fighter to do. Do I even have to go into Marquez's recent fights? If you are going to do it I would prefer if you discussed his level of performance in each of his fights because you haven't really done that in any meaningful way for Joe's.

is this list about a boxer's career talent? or is this list about his achievements for the past year? cause i think it's the latter, that's why manny is number 1 and cotto/vic are not here.

Hatton also barely won against Collazo and Lazcano and some even think he lost the Collazo fight. Collazo and Lazcano probably aren't even in the top 100 P4P list at the time he fought them. This is P4P, he's probably a good fighter at his weight class but he's average at welter. Cotto for example moved up from 140, won against a former light middleweight champ and lost to a big welter who was also P4P ranked what makes Hatton better than Cotto P4P? When I think of Hatton, I think about Pavlik and why Pavlik isn't in the P4P ranking and Hatton is. Pavlik was a dominant middleweight, knocked out all but 3 or 4 of his opponents and exposed a former highly rated P4P fighter big time, moved up in weight to fight another current P4P fighter (and former light heavyweight champ) at supermiddle and lost. How is Hatton better than Pavlik P4P? In losing, Hatton was schooled, slammed in the ringpost and ended up knocked out, Pavlik was just schooled. Dawson moved up in weight and beat Tarver, Glen Johnson and now current Cruiserweight champ Adamek, even Bad Chad can say that he deserves being listed up there more than Hatton P4P. Even Vic Darchinyan can say that he moved up a division and dominated then P4P fighter Mijares. P4P he can say that he deserves to be ranked higher than Hatton because he showed that he can dominate a class A fighter from a higher weightclass, something that Hatton hasn't done. P4P isnt a contest of "who can be effective in the most weight classes". Bernard Hopkins, for example, was the number 1 ranked P4P fighter and never really fought outside of the MW division at the time. P4P just means "all things equal". So if a guy is THE dominant fighter in the most stacked division, and has impressively defeated all challenger, he takes the number 1 spot. Losing outside of you weight class doesnt discredit a fighter, thats why we have weight classes.

Look I would rank marquez #2 but in the end the argument for putting marquez ahead of calzaghe is not that strong. In fact changing #4 with #5 or other similar changes are very difficult to argue. However, the fact that Hatton and cabellro are on there over the likes of darchinyan, paul williams, cotto, and chad dawson is a joke. BTW the p4p list is not about being undefeated or how many losses you have, so anyone pushing that argument is just wasting their time, after all Arthur Abraham is not in this list and Im not complaining. I'm not a Calzaghe fan, but I think the dude deserves P4P#2