Is Boxing Dying?? MMA taking over??

Awesome thread.:boxing:

wow... :owned: :rofl:.

I love the post by Pain btw. I don't agree with your point that MMA is to young and thats why the pay their fighters junk. MMA is a league, like MLB or the NBA and Dana White writes the checks and can pay whatever he wishes. When boxing was young(not talking about 1600s) in the late 1890s-1910s fighters did make a ton of money. Jack Johnson, Jim Jefferies, Fittsimmons, Obrien etc all got paid a lot of gold/dollars. Boxers have always been paid pretty well. I really don't think its about MMA being young. Its more about Dana being a buisness man, pay the fighters less, make them fight lots on tv, build a fanbase for these fighters, and be able to afford big promotions. Not to know MMA but it is a company ran like WWE(which might not be a bad thing). A couple points, MMA is not a company. The UFC is a company that's in the MMA business. The UFC must run a good business or they'll be out of business and their stable of fighters out of a job. The UFC is expanding their business overseas as well as in North America. That takes money. Quite a few other MMA organizations have come and gone recently because management was trying to pay them salaries that could compare to those in boxing among other things. Affliction for example lost a shitload of money on their debut event because they ran it like a boxing event: Hype the shit out of it, guarantee fighters a ton of cash, and don't give a shit about who fights where in 3mo. They had some of the biggest names in the sport, yet the event completely bombed. The simple fact is that MMA doesn't have a strong enough fanbase quite yet to be able to generate revenue big enough to support massive boxing type payouts and still be around next month. That comes from the sport being new. Fighters in the UFC have been getting paid more and more with each new contract, the bonuses they receive for KO, Fight or Submission of the night have increased as well. Fighters like Randy Couture have also received signing bonuses, which was something unheard of just 5yrs ago. One can only conclude that as the sports popularity rises, the UFC's revenue increases and more and more money in turn gets put into the pockets of the fighters. Whether it's proportionate is anyone's guess, but Dana is signing guys to 6 figure (per fight, 2 or 3 fights a year) long term contracts at an increasing rate. I don't think the UFC is being as greedy about it as they are smart about it. They have to run a business first and foremost, it's not a 1 time deal like a boxing event.

If it was run like the WWE, there would be no divisions under light heavyweight, guys would get picked up for the way they talk and the only way you get respected by the boss is by smacking one of his top men in the mush.

LOL...I don't know why ya'll hate on MMA so much. It's like being a Senior in high school pointing at the new Freshman who got all the new friends and chicks all around him and you sayin "Man, **** him!" LOL...that's truthfully how some of ya'll come off. There's no legit logic in your hate towards the sport. Like really, who benefits from how much Oscar is making with Golden Boy compared to Dana White and the UFC? I know it isn't any of ya'll, so why such a big uproar? Maybe some of you feel threatened by MMA's sudden popularity (LOL...which would be a bit sad)? Relax fellas, both sports can and will co-exist. If anything Boxing promoters should take notes and see how much more lucrative it can be to do not 1 but DOUBLE MAIN EVENTS on 1 PPV card (being some of these promoters have more than 2-3 top ten fighters contracted). ...And I prefer Boxing over MMA, but I'm also open-minded (which some on here have a tough time trying to be)

While To a certain extent I agree with everything you wrote, I think it's a MASSIVE mistake to think that Boxing is running along nicely and everything is fine. F*ck MMA, Boxing has to sort out some issues before you totally lose the next generation of fan to any other sport. Too many belt holders. Too many matches not being made. No obvious progression structure for upcoming fighters so you have no idea what level people are at unless you REALLY know the sport. Way to many PPV with awful undercards If anyone think boxing is as strong now as it was in the 80's you are dreaming, and that has exactly Zero to do with MMA. Do you think MMA aside from that idiot looking for press from teh UFC give a toss about boxing? I've been listening to a bunch of friends talk MMA in one form or other for 10 years, not one cares one Iota what boxing fans or pro think of their sport.

Best post I read today.

also, on the ppv numbers.. MMA stacks their cards, boxing doesn't. Even then we still get good numbers. Great post Mr. Pain.. Like always! very nicely researched as well!

what's the biggest MMA forum so i can post this shit! Good job bro. LONG LIVE BOXING!!!

Comparing the HBO PPV numbers to the UFC PPV numbers is the wrong formula on judging how healthy each sport is, people look at these numbers and automatically assume "Boxing is Dying" "We need to fix Boxing" "OMG" Lets break this down just to show how healthy the sports really are. One sport is MMA One sport Boxing MMA has had 3 major organizations die the past 2 years and that's not counting Bodogfights, Hardcore Championship Fighting soon to be Dream. IFL - The IFL was a MMA org that was founded March, 2005, in a very short time they were able to secure a deal with Fox Sports. Corporate sponsors such as Microsoft, Suzuki and Coca-Cola sign on, in November 2006 The company goes public. December 2007 "60 Minutes" prominently features IFL. Shortly after, its stock peaks at $17. March of 2007 MyNetworkTV begins screening IFL fights, June 2007 IFL shares fall to $1. December 2007 IFL's contract with MyNetworkTV ends. June 2008 IFL cancels an August event at the Izod Center, saying the company can't afford to stage it. The CEO says the league is looking for a buyer or partner. Oct 2008 the IFL sells for $650,000 - IFL DEAD PrideFC - PRIDE Fighting Championships was formed in 1997,they held more than sixty mixed martial arts events. During its ten years of operation, Pride was broadcast in 41 countries worldwide. Pride still holds the record for largest crowd for a MMA event at Tokyo National Stadium 91,107 in attendance. On June 5, 2006, Fuji Network announced that they were terminating their television contract with PRIDE Fighting Championships effective immediately due to a breach of contract, According to Fightopinion.com and a Japanese magazine called Shukan Gendai, Pride has been run and owned by the Yakuza(Japanese Mob) for some time. The owners of the UFC bought pride in March 2007 for a reported $70 million with the intentions of having another MMA brand in Japan, after failing to secure a TV deal in Japan, the new pride owner(Lorenzo Fertitta) was forced to shut down the company in October 2007. They fired the remaining 20 employees in Japan and closed it's offices. The UFC owners ended up paying $70 million for fighter contracts and a video library. - Pride Dead Elite XC - Elite Xtreme Combat was founded as a partnership between Showtime Networks Inc. and ProElite, Inc. Their first major event was in February, 2007, 1 year later it was reported that EliteXC had reached an agreement with CBS to broadcast EliteXC shows on prime time. The first show May 31, 2008 on CBS drew the highest ratings in the history of MMA in north america, it peaked at 6.5 million viewers watching the main event with Kimbo Slice against James Thompson. That week they ended up second in most watched sport shows on Television, the second Elite XC show on CBS on July, 26 was not what CBS was expecting. The ratings were down 40% from the first show, rumor were rampant that the company was hemorrhaging money but they still had Kimbo Slice so the next show had to be a blockbuster. October 4 was the next show and they scheduled Kimbo against well known 44 year old 1 - 7 in his last 8 fights Ken Shamrock, the plan an easy win for Kimbo huge ratings, sounds great. The day of the fight Shamrock pulls out with a cut and isn't allowed to fight, Kimbo has to face late sub and subsequently gets ko'd in 10 seconds. The ratings ended up being great but after the fight there were allegations of pay offs to keep the fight standing, The Florida state athletic commission starts an investigation to look into fight fixing. On October 21 it was reported that Elite XC would close it's doors by the end of the week, it was reported that in it's 2 years of existence the company had lost $55million . -Elite XC Dead Boxing The claims of boxing's death are greatly exaggerated, you will not be able to find a time when there has been this much boxing accessible to the general public. Network TV Telefutura(soon to be shifted to Azteca America) Telemundo Basic Cable ESPN Friday night fights (9 months out of the year) Versus - Fight Night Fox Sports Net- will begin airing notable overseas title bouts on a tape-delay basis about once per month as part of "Best Damn Sports Show Period." ESPN Classic - Boxing every night Golden Boy Promotions is working on a deal for a monthly boxing program on basic cable to feature prospects. Premium Cable HBO Has a Boxing budget of $60 million a year, they had 20 shows this year not counting PPV. Showtime has a Boxing budget of $20 million a year, they had 24 cards this year non on PPV. All these different channels are pumping money into the Boxing economy, here in the US not counting PPV buys or live gate. Non Us Boxing networks UK Setanta UK Nuts.tv UK ITV UK Sky Sports UK BBC Germany ARD Germany ZDF Mexico TV Azteca Canada Super Channel Canada TSN Live Gate The Top grossing gate in the history of MMA CHUCK LIDDELL vs. TITO ORTIZ II 12/30/06 $5,397,300 Top Boxing gates of the last 2 years FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR vs. OSCAR DE LA HOYA 05/05/07 $18,419,200 Oscar De La Hoya vs Pacquiao 12/6/08 $14,380,300 Ricky Hatton vs Juan Lazcano 5/24/08 $12,000,000 JOE CALZAGHE vs. BERNARD HOPKINS 04/19/08 $ 11,636,400 FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR vs. RICKY HATTON 12/08/07 $10,393,950 Biggest one fight purse for each sport in 2008 MMA Tim Sylvia - $800,000 Andre Arlovski -$749,690 Chuck Liddel l - $500,000 Kimbo Slice - $500,000 Brock Lesnar - $450,000 Forrest Griffin - $310,000 BJ Penn - $250,000 Randy Couture - $250,000 Anderson Silva - $200,000 Boxing Oscar Delahoya - $24,000,000 Felix Trinidad - $14,000,000 Wladimir Klitschko - $12,000,000 Manny Pacquiao - $11,000,000 Joe Calzaghe - $10,000,000 Roy Jones - $10,000,000 Bernard Hopkins - $8,000,000 Miguel Cotto - $7,000,000 Kelly Pavlik - $3,000,000 Which sport is dying again?? Boxing ain't going nowhere. Great ****en post!!!

Mother**** MMA. Boxing ain't dyin, no matter what dumbass Calzaghe says.

Kind of unfair to compare an unorganized sport liike boxing to a league generated sport like MMA. Compare all these leagues dying off to football. Football has a long history of leagues dying off, merging, or simply being suspended for a while (Arena football is thinking of suspending it's upcoming season) and yet one league still rises above it all in this country, the NFL, and that's really all we really need. Football is alive and well and will seemingly stay king in America for a long, long time to come. I mean I don't necessarily believe all the crap that the mainstream media slings around that the sport is absolutely dead because that very same media hardly ever pays attention to the sport and it's biggest and best fights which still generate much cash in revenues. All while MMA enthuisiasm is dying down slowily like any other fad that skyrockets very quickly, eventually, that kind of hardcore enthusiasm dies down and sits at it's regular level. Still, it's hard to see the silver lining in the sport of boxing. It's still highly unorganized and untamed in this and every other country in the world, it's biggesst and only star is likely to retire with no real replacement in site, not too many seem to want to try different things in promoting the sport, and the athletes themselves are stearing clear from the sport as the sport dies in popularity (checkout the heavyweight division for example). I'm not saying either sport is ever going to completely die off anytime soon, but it's really hard to get a good gauge on the whole scene and predict where either sport will be in the years to come. On a sidenote, I once had an illegal satellite hookup. Shhh, don't tell nobody... hahaha.. and it showed me how accessible boxing really is. With all the channels I had and all the boxing on TV, I could literally watch boxing about 22 hours a day. It was great!

Good post and some great points. MMA fighters have smaller salaries because the sport is only 10+ years old. When boxing was that young, guys weren't making what they're making now. Also, the UFC has no idea what sponsors pay the fighters, so making 7 figures per year isn't out of the reach of many top MMA fighters. Those MMA orgs died because of horseshit management, no 2 ways about it. Those were the quick buck types trying to ride the coat tails of the UFC, with the exception of Pride of course. That's not true, MMA fighters aren't getting paid because the UFC is ****ing them over. The PPV buys for the UFC are consistently good, yet you have the talent making **** all. When your the only game in town you can do what you please. In 1923 Jack Dempsey's purse against Luis Angel Firpo was $500,000 there were no PPV,TV networks or sponsors. Sponsors have nothing to do with the base pay the UFC fighters are making, Manny Pacquiao has more endorsements then any other fighter on the planet. I only put up reported pay, I know all about those "locker room bonuses" but since there are no sources it's hard to speculate. I have sources for everything I posted BTW.

good work..

Comparing the HBO PPV numbers to the UFC PPV numbers is the wrong formula on judging how healthy each sport is, people look at these numbers and automatically assume "Boxing is Dying" "We need to fix Boxing" "OMG" Lets break this down just to show how healthy the sports really are. One sport is MMA One sport Boxing MMA has had 3 major organizations die the past 2 years and that's not counting Bodogfights, Hardcore Championship Fighting soon to be Dream. IFL - The IFL was a MMA org that was founded March, 2005, in a very short time they were able to secure a deal with Fox Sports. Corporate sponsors such as Microsoft, Suzuki and Coca-Cola sign on, in November 2006 The company goes public. December 2007 "60 Minutes" prominently features IFL. Shortly after, its stock peaks at $17. March of 2007 MyNetworkTV begins screening IFL fights, June 2007 IFL shares fall to $1. December 2007 IFL's contract with MyNetworkTV ends. June 2008 IFL cancels an August event at the Izod Center, saying the company can't afford to stage it. The CEO says the league is looking for a buyer or partner. Oct 2008 the IFL sells for $650,000 - IFL DEAD PrideFC - PRIDE Fighting Championships was formed in 1997,they held more than sixty mixed martial arts events. During its ten years of operation, Pride was broadcast in 41 countries worldwide. Pride still holds the record for largest crowd for a MMA event at Tokyo National Stadium 91,107 in attendance. On June 5, 2006, Fuji Network announced that they were terminating their television contract with PRIDE Fighting Championships effective immediately due to a breach of contract, According to Fightopinion.com and a Japanese magazine called Shukan Gendai, Pride has been run and owned by the Yakuza(Japanese Mob) for some time. The owners of the UFC bought pride in March 2007 for a reported $70 million with the intentions of having another MMA brand in Japan, after failing to secure a TV deal in Japan, the new pride owner(Lorenzo Fertitta) was forced to shut down the company in October 2007. They fired the remaining 20 employees in Japan and closed it's offices. The UFC owners ended up paying $70 million for fighter contracts and a video library. - Pride Dead Elite XC - Elite Xtreme Combat was founded as a partnership between Showtime Networks Inc. and ProElite, Inc. Their first major event was in February, 2007, 1 year later it was reported that EliteXC had reached an agreement with CBS to broadcast EliteXC shows on prime time. The first show May 31, 2008 on CBS drew the highest ratings in the history of MMA in north america, it peaked at 6.5 million viewers watching the main event with Kimbo Slice against James Thompson. That week they ended up second in most watched sport shows on Television, the second Elite XC show on CBS on July, 26 was not what CBS was expecting. The ratings were down 40% from the first show, rumor were rampant that the company was hemorrhaging money but they still had Kimbo Slice so the next show had to be a blockbuster. October 4 was the next show and they scheduled Kimbo against well known 44 year old 1 - 7 in his last 8 fights Ken Shamrock, the plan an easy win for Kimbo huge ratings, sounds great. The day of the fight Shamrock pulls out with a cut and isn't allowed to fight, Kimbo has to face late sub and subsequently gets ko'd in 10 seconds. The ratings ended up being great but after the fight there were allegations of pay offs to keep the fight standing, The Florida state athletic commission starts an investigation to look into fight fixing. On October 21 it was reported that Elite XC would close it's doors by the end of the week, it was reported that in it's 2 years of existence the company had lost $55million . -Elite XC Dead Boxing The claims of boxing's death are greatly exaggerated, you will not be able to find a time when there has been this much boxing accessible to the general public. Network TV Telefutura(soon to be shifted to Azteca America) Telemundo Basic Cable ESPN Friday night fights (9 months out of the year) Versus - Fight Night Fox Sports Net- will begin airing notable overseas title bouts on a tape-delay basis about once per month as part of "Best Damn Sports Show Period." ESPN Classic - Boxing every night Golden Boy Promotions is working on a deal for a monthly boxing program on basic cable to feature prospects. Premium Cable HBO Has a Boxing budget of $60 million a year, they had 20 shows this year not counting PPV. Showtime has a Boxing budget of $20 million a year, they had 24 cards this year non on PPV. All these different channels are pumping money into the Boxing economy, here in the US not counting PPV buys or live gate. Non Us Boxing networks UK Setanta UK Nuts.tv UK ITV UK Sky Sports UK BBC Germany ARD Germany ZDF Mexico TV Azteca Canada Super Channel Canada TSN Live Gate The Top grossing gate in the history of MMA CHUCK LIDDELL vs. TITO ORTIZ II 12/30/06 $5,397,300 Top Boxing gates of the last 2 years FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR vs. OSCAR DE LA HOYA 05/05/07 $18,419,200 Oscar De La Hoya vs Pacquiao 12/6/08 $14,380,300 Ricky Hatton vs Juan Lazcano 5/24/08 $12,000,000 JOE CALZAGHE vs. BERNARD HOPKINS 04/19/08 $ 11,636,400 FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR vs. RICKY HATTON 12/08/07 $10,393,950 Biggest one fight purse for each sport in 2008 MMA Tim Sylvia - $800,000 Andre Arlovski -$749,690 Chuck Liddel l - $500,000 Kimbo Slice - $500,000 Brock Lesnar - $450,000 Forrest Griffin - $310,000 BJ Penn - $250,000 Randy Couture - $250,000 Anderson Silva - $200,000 Boxing Oscar Delahoya - $24,000,000 Felix Trinidad - $14,000,000 Wladimir Klitschko - $12,000,000 Manny Pacquiao - $11,000,000 Joe Calzaghe - $10,000,000 Roy Jones - $10,000,000 Bernard Hopkins - $8,000,000 Miguel Cotto - $7,000,000 Kelly Pavlik - $3,000,000 Which sport is dying again?? Boxing ain't going nowhere. Great post, it's about time someone started talking sense.

Thanks guys, just trying to inform my fellow Boxing fans to quit being so gullible to what the media or that bald turd Dana White says.

Good post and some great points. MMA fighters have smaller salaries because the sport is only 10+ years old. When boxing was that young, guys weren't making what they're making now. Also, the UFC has no idea what sponsors pay the fighters, so making 7 figures per year isn't out of the reach of many top MMA fighters. Those MMA orgs died because of horseshit management, no 2 ways about it. Those were the quick buck types trying to ride the coat tails of the UFC, with the exception of Pride of course.

Good work on the numbers and research!!! I'm gonna print this out and give it to one of my retarded co-workers who honestly thinks Boxing is dying!!!

So from now on fights from telefutura will be on azteca america? Thats good for me. I have the channel