Freddie Roach: Wrong or Right on knowing that Oscar would be dead come fight time?

Here is my confliction: Freddie Roach: Freddie got Parkinson’s from fighting and he knows the dangers that fighters are in. Why would he accept a fight with Oscar at 147 given his knowing of what would happen on the scales and the dangers that come with it? He pointed to every fighter that had trouble making weight after fighting at a higher weight; especially older fighters. He also noted that Oscar couldn’t pull the trigger anymore. Knowing this, he risked the health of Oscar. True, Oscar was the one that took that risk and over-looked it, but given Freddie was a former fighter, a great trainer, and knew the history of the sport and what happens to such fighters and the dangers that come with it. So shouldn’t he have been the bigger Man and just told Oscar: “Look, I know what you are doing trying to fight Manny at 147, but the bottom line is, it isn’t safe for you as a fighter; I know you think you can do it, but History has shown otherwise. You may want this fight and think you can do it, but I will not have my fighter fighting a corpse by fight time because it will look bad on me. I could steal your money right now because I know what I know, but, I am not a thief and I care about other fighters as well as my own; especially fighters I helped train. Listen Oscar, if you feel you need to fight smaller fighters at this stage of your career and need to come down in weight to do it; just retire. Go watch Roy and Byrd and the others that tried to do it; you’re not any different. Do what you want, but hear my warning. I will not have my fighter fighting a dead corpse at 147. Freddie didn't have to have Manny fight Oscar. Manny isn't a Welterweight even though he is 147 pounds ;) And, Oscar didn't have a belt. So why did he do this? Was it all about Money? Or was it all about the side of nature we see in every-day life, especially with watching the Nature Channel: Take advantage of the Old Lion by sending in the Young and Hungry. You answered your own question. boxing aint black and white, just like people. money of course is a big motivator but so is the challenge of dethroning a power player like Oscar and thrusting pac into the spotlight.

Roach is just a trainer, he is paid to watch out for his own fighter. This is a combat sport. Pac was getting a career high payday for that fight, and this fight will increase his earning potential for his future fights, who the **** is roach to rob him of that on some bs ethical issues. Whats next, roach should tell Pac to throw his left hand with half strength, since it might injure someone. If roach had those types of thought that you expect him to have, he is a trainer in the wrong sport, he should do something else, cuz no matter who pac fights he is going to do a longterm damage to that person to some degree. It's the difference between fighting a Live fighter and a Dead fighter; that is my point. It's why people had concern with Ali when he kept fighting. If two Men are healthy, and are top fighters going at each other; it's a fair fight and what ever happens, happens; that's why you shake hands...it's an agreement of knowing what could happen and accepting it. I couldn't complain if the fight had been at 154 and Oscar showed up at his usual 164+ because at least he would have been alive and had a chance. Ethics are part of the sport.

You need to go over my Floyd posts carefully. You will see that I rip on Floyd a lot; especially his legacy at 147+. I laughed when people were crediting him with a greater legacy at 147 than SRR, SRL, and Tommy Hearns...and some people thought he would whipe the floor with them all. I said I favored the other three over Floyd. For Manny: I also said I prefer to watch Manny than the 147+ version of Floyd. And, I like Manny's attitude a lot better than Floyd's. I know all about what Oscar does, but my piont was to Freddie, given his status in boxing and his health. I said Oscar deserved it for not knowing his history. Someone else in another thread pointed to Karma...so I wondered, given Freddie's position; will Karma strike him back, again...if Karma exists. I thought about the rest already and concentrated on Freddie. Roach is just a trainer, he is paid to watch out for his own fighter. This is a combat sport. Pac was getting a career high payday for that fight, and this fight will increase his earning potential for his future fights, who the **** is roach to rob him of that on some bs ethical issues. Whats next, roach should tell Pac to throw his left hand with half strength, since it might injure someone. If roach had those types of thought that you expect him to have, he is a trainer in the wrong sport, he should do something else, cuz no matter who pac fights he is going to do a longterm damage to that person to some degree.

This is true. I have noticed you are one of the more objective Floyd fans, which is refreshing to see. I don't like it when people think Floyd can do no wrong. Many of his fans would clap if he farted. lol I'm a boxing fan first. I also gave Manny a decent shot to beat Floyd if he comes back...and I listed why. I favor Floyd; maybe 60/40, depending on what the contract stipulates and when the fight will take place, etc. To early to make odds to be honest. Of course, the big debate was the weight which most didn't see to get my point...sadly.

You need to go over my Floyd posts carefully. You will see that I rip on Floyd a lot; especially his legacy at 147+. I laughed when people were crediting him with a greater legacy at 147 than SRR, SRL, and Tommy Hearns...and some people thought he would whipe the floor with them all. I said I favored the other three over Floyd. This is true. I have noticed you are one of the more objective Floyd fans, which is refreshing to see. I don't like it when people think Floyd can do no wrong. Many of his fans would clap if he farted. 100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

Apart from the fact there is no direct link between Parkinsons and boxing, brain damage is usually inflicted over prolongued beatings and usually in a long journeyman career like Freddie's. Not Oscar's. Like Ali said: 'If boxing causes Parkinsons, then a million people are boxers!' Ali is also not a Scientist/Doctor. They point to symptoms. People mistake one for the other; that's true. "The disorder, however, is called Parkinson's syndrome, rather than Parkinson's disease, to distinguish it from the form typical of the elderly. According to Dr. Stanley Fahn, Ali's neurologist at the Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center, the former champion's symptoms, until ameliorated by treatment, included sluggish speech, loss of facial expression, slowness of motion and some hand tremors." Read the full article here: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9D00E2DE143BF930A1575AC0A962948260

Why do you honestly dislike Pac so much. Is it because he is threatening Floyds status in boxing? by the way, Oscar made Floyd come up in weight, made him wear gloves with less padding (hoping he would break them), made him fight in a smaller ring. So please don't try to act as if no one else is doing it. Bottom line, Oscar was just looking for an easy payday and it backfired. If he couldn't make weight, he should have fought Margarito, i'm sure he would take the fight even at 160. You need to go over my Floyd posts carefully. You will see that I rip on Floyd a lot; especially his legacy at 147+. I laughed when people were crediting him with a greater legacy at 147 than SRR, SRL, and Tommy Hearns...and some people thought he would whipe the floor with them all. I said I favored the other three over Floyd. For Manny: I also said I prefer to watch Manny than the 147+ version of Floyd. And, I like Manny's attitude a lot better than Floyd's. I know all about what Oscar does, but my piont was to Freddie, given his status in boxing and his health. I said Oscar deserved it for not knowing his history. Someone else in another thread pointed to Karma...so I wondered, given Freddie's position; will Karma strike him back, again...if Karma exists. I thought about the rest already and concentrated on Freddie.

Here is my confliction: Freddie Roach: Freddie got Parkinson’s from fighting and he knows the dangers that fighters are in. Why would he accept a fight with Oscar at 147 given his knowing of what would happen on the scales and the dangers that come with it? He pointed to every fighter that had trouble making weight after fighting at a higher weight; especially older fighters. He also noted that Oscar couldn’t pull the trigger anymore. Knowing this, he risked the health of Oscar. True, Oscar was the one that took that risk and over-looked it, but given Freddie was a former fighter, a great trainer, and knew the history of the sport and what happens to such fighters and the dangers that come with it. So shouldn’t he have been the bigger Man and just told Oscar: “Look, I know what you are doing trying to fight Manny at 147, but the bottom line is, it isn’t safe for you as a fighter; I know you think you can do it, but History has shown otherwise. You may want this fight and think you can do it, but I will not have my fighter fighting a corpse by fight time because it will look bad on me. I could steal your money right now because I know what I know, but, I am not a thief and I care about other fighters as well as my own; especially fighters I helped train. Listen Oscar, if you feel you need to fight smaller fighters at this stage of your career and need to come down in weight to do it; just retire. Go watch Roy and Byrd and the others that tried to do it; you’re not any different. Do what you want, but hear my warning. I will not have my fighter fighting a dead corpse at 147. Freddie didn't have to have Manny fight Oscar. Manny isn't a Welterweight even though he is 147 pounds ;) And, Oscar didn't have a belt. So why did he do this? Was it all about Money? Or was it all about the side of nature we see in every-day life, especially with watching the Nature Channel: Take advantage of the Old Lion by sending in the Young and Hungry. Why do you honestly dislike Pac so much. Is it because he is threatening Floyds status in boxing? by the way, Oscar made Floyd come up in weight, made him wear gloves with less padding (hoping he would break them), made him fight in a smaller ring. So please don't try to act as if no one else is doing it. Bottom line, Oscar was just looking for an easy payday and it backfired. If he couldn't make weight, he should have fought Margarito, i'm sure he would take the fight even at 160.

There was one poster that got my attention and made me pay attention to the weigh-in: He said; Oscar looks like Skeletor. That poster called it. I thought he looked fine except the top of his arms looked kinda scrawny and lacking in muscle definition. That's all I noticed. 100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

Roach honestly believed in his fighter and spoke up about it. But no way he knew Pac would rip DLH to pieces easily like he did. Nobody coulda known that, even if they predicted a Pac win. Yeah; I didn't see that coming. I figured Oscar; even if he did show up "flat" would at least do his normal fight good for half then fade away. I also figured he would show up at 157; I was wrong. I thought it was odd that he weighed himself at 147 on 24/7, but wondered if he hadn't just drained himself or played with the scale for that day for the show to help sell the fight. I was wrong. Oscar at 154 {164+ by fight time} and healthy on the left and on the right; at 147 by fight time. http://bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/17159000/ngbbs48a190527326c.jpg There was one poster that got my attention and made me pay attention to the weigh-in: He said; Oscar looks like Skeletor. That poster called it.

Roach honestly believed in his fighter and spoke up about it. But no way he knew Pac would rip DLH to pieces easily like he did. Nobody coulda known that, even if they predicted a Pac win. I dunno man, Freddie had a bet that Pac would KO De La Hoya in round 9. He knew exactly what he was doing. I'm starting to think Roach is a genius. Had the fight gone one more round, Oscar WOULD have been KO'd in exactly round 9. Most definitely. 100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

Do you think the fight would sell when they expect Pac as is supposed to fight 19 lbs off his last weight class? The catch weight of 147 is another selling point that Oscar may 'not' be too big for Pac, thus they cannot do it at 154 lbs. This is my last reply to this thread. I totally respect your position but sometimes, you just have to think outside the box. It wouldn't surprise me if the fight still sold. Fans are crazy. Even if they thought it was unfair, many would probably think they are going to pay $55 to see Pac get knocked out...and that would be worth the money. They bought this fight didn't they? 147 was a selling point though; I agree. How am I not thinking outside the box?

Roach honestly believed in his fighter and spoke up about it. But no way he knew Pac would rip DLH to pieces easily like he did. Nobody coulda known that, even if they predicted a Pac win.

If he was so confident without the weight-loss, he would have just fought Oscar at 154 and allowed him to be healthier. But, Freddie wanted to make sure, and that is where the weight came in. Do you think the fight would sell when they expect Pac to fight 19 lbs off his last weight class? The catch weight of 147 is another selling point that Oscar may 'not' be too big for Pac, thus they cannot do it at 154 lbs. This is my last reply to this thread. I totally respect your position but sometimes, you just have to think outside the box.

It would have been ridiculous if they fought at 154, the fight would have been laughed at even more. People have to remember that Pac had only one fight at Lightweight before fighting DLH and Oscar's last fight was at 150. Roach's game plan was to out speed and out box DLH. I think the stoppage was a bonus.

Nah, c'mon. Freddie is playing Monday morning quarterback, and I would've done the same if I was him. Suppose DLH weighed-in @ 165 lbs on fight night and overpowered Pacquiao, I wonder what Freddie will say... No he is not. He knew the combination of weight-loss and where Oscar was at in his career was in the favor of Pac. That's why he said every time he did the calculation in his head, he saw Manny coming out on top. If he was so confident without the weight-loss, he would have just fought Oscar at 154 and allowed him to be healthier. But, Freddie wanted to make sure, and that is where the weight came in. Freddie knew his history. Hell, I'm just a poster and I said I favored Oscar, but I wouldn't be surprised if Oscar came in "flat" because I started to think about Tszyu vs. Hatton. There were too many similarities. I said if Oscar could come in healthy, like he did with Floyd, he is favored 65/35; but, if he has trouble with the weight and everything catches up with him like it did Tszyu; he isn't favored.

No it wasn't. Freddie said it before and then broke down the reasons after. He went further after the fight and discussed the bigger issue: weight. Freddie knew, which is why he put Manny in there against this version of Oscar. Knowing the Past helps Predict the Future. Nah, c'mon. Freddie is playing Monday morning quarterback, and I would've done the same if I was him. Suppose DLH weighed-in @ 165 lbs on fight night and overpowered Pacquiao, I wonder what Freddie will say...

DLH didn't even try and Box Pac, he just came out trying to steam roll him. Oscar should have came into fight stronger than what he did, his camp have a lot to answer for imo. I also believe that he thought Pac was gong to stand there and trade with Oscar. Oscar was too ****ing lazy to make 147 against Forbes, which would have been the perfect trial to see how he went fighting at 147, but DLH didn't take that fight seriously and moved the weight to 150. Oscar was only interested in fighting the biggest Name in the sport and it back fired on him.

Freddie's call of "Oscar can't pull the trigger anymore" is a marketing ploy so people will think Pacquiao has a chance. Nobody can predict the future. It just happened that Freddie was right. No it wasn't. Freddie said it before and then broke down the reasons after. He went further after the fight and discussed the bigger issue: weight. Freddie knew, which is why he put Manny in there against this version of Oscar. Knowing the Past helps Predict the Future.

I know what you're saying, and you raise good, valid points, but I have no sympathy for Oscar. He'll get over it. No I don't either. I also thought about the other side to it: Freddie, being the teacher, and knowing Oscar wouldn't listen because he hadn't listened to history, was going to show Oscar what he meant. what did Oscar say after the match? "Freddie, you were right" What could Freddie have been thinking: Yes, because I'm the teacher and you are the student. Let this serve you as a lesson to all fighters, even though they should have learned from the prior fighters this happened to, as well as your fighters Oscar; look after them.