Tyson was never the same after he got out of jail

Read Donald McRae's DARK TRADE. It talks in depth about Tyson's formative years. How he was lied to and fleeced by Jim Jacobs and Bill Cayton. How D'Amato manipulated Tyson's feelings toward women. How Tyson once broke down during an amateur contest - floods of tears - because he feared losing and being sent back to the streets by Cus. With friends like those it's no wonder he turned into a screwball. I'll see if I can pick it up but I often wonder where these people get their "inside" information. There have been people that were in that house with Mike that called out some reporters/writers about lying just to make a story...so I always keep that in mind. Even Rooney called Atlas out on some things. People have different memories on things. For D'Amato and Women: it will be interesting to hear this side...what exactly did he say? "Don't trust them." If so, that's basically 90% of what Father's tell their Sons. And if it is so, he should have listened in his case. I think it is different in regards to Tyson because women were going to try to take advantage of him. People that knew him knew he was a bit emotional and when you are a high-paid athlete, the girls will be on the hunt. If Cus told Mike that women are a piece of meat and you can slap them around, then that is wrong...but I doubt he said that. Mike said Cus talked to him about the importance of a Family and that one day he would have a family of his own and that has to be the most important thing in his life...FAMILY. What was the thing with Jacobs? The amatuer contest is here: Tyson feared failure. He feared failure so much it helped him train. He was very insecure and would practice everything to perfection so when he went in the ring, he knew he gave himself the best chance to win. Teddy said something like that. You have to remember Cus and the rest were there to straighten out these kids, not to kiss their ass...even though they kind of did with Mike. Anyway, the point is you have to let them have that fear that if they don't straighten themselves out, they will be kicked out on to the street. That's what may have been on Mike's mind if that is what the writer is getting to. Nothing wrong with that. Tyson relied on Atlas and then Rooney to give him commands. Tyson said himself that he was better at listening and following instructions than to do it on his own...which is why he struggled to regain his old form after he left Rooney. I found it interesting that he said after the Bruno fight that "this wasn't Tyson of vintage." So he knew where he was.

Yes, but he is kind of right: Cus wanted to build a Great Champion; the Youngest HW Champion. That's something to remember in history and Cus wanted to be a part of that. He let Tyson in because of his natural talent and size. He put Teddy on Mike to build a Champion. Mike would get in trouble and Teddy would want to discipline him and Cus would let it go...which he had never done in the past...according to Teddy. Cus was going against his own principles for the sake of having One last "Great" fighter that would make Cus remembered. Cus thought Mike could truly be the Greatest ever as long as Mike stays the course and stays motivated. This isn't to say Cus didn't care for him, because I do think he did...just like a lot of trainers/mentors can start to build that type of relationship with their young fighters. You can say that Cus's fighters were his kids. Torres and Patterson all said Cus cared for them; that's the type of person he was. Rooney was close with him as well and had great respect for him. I think in the end, Teddy felt betrayed Cus sold out his own values for the sake of this young brute named Mike Tyson. But Cus was desperate at his age. Boxing great, Mugwump and Benny Leonard pretty much nailed it on the head. If you read teddy Atlas's book "Atlas", he goes into great detail explaining what mugwump and Benny Leonard just said. Cus cared for the guys he allowed around him, but because of what they could provide him. Personally, I feel like Cus turned on Atlas because Cus figured he could get more out of keeping Tyson around than Teddy, who demanded Tyson abide by all the rules Cus made that everyone else there had to abide by. Everybody that is, except Tyson. My bottom line is that as long as Jimmy Jacobs and Kevin Rooney were in the picture, Tyson at least made an effort to be decent. After all his original guys were dead or fired, his new crew (Rory & company) did their very best to pat Mike's back, rub his belly and tell him how great he was. Tyson bought into the lie that he was too great to have to train, and he gave a large part of himself over to the gangster life that he really craved all along. No more barriers, no more rules....no more greatness.

Tyson was never the same after hiring on Don King and getting rid of Kevin Rooney. It goes further back than prison, though that little stretch did him no favors either.

So he adopted him but would have dropped him? Pretty dumb if you ask me. He practically raised Mike in his teenage years. He was a father figure. Read Donald McRae's DARK TRADE. It talks in depth about Tyson's formative years. How he was lied to and fleeced by Jim Jacobs and Bill Cayton. How D'Amato manipulated Tyson's feelings toward women. How Tyson once broke down during an amateur contest - floods of tears - because he feared losing and being sent back to the streets by Cus. With friends like those it's no wonder he turned into a screwball.

So he adopted him but would have dropped him? Pretty dumb if you ask me. He practically raised Mike in his teenage years. He was a father figure. Yes, but he is kind of right: Cus wanted to build a Great Champion; the Youngest HW Champion. That's something to remember in history and Cus wanted to be a part of that. He let Tyson in because of his natural talent and size. He put Teddy on Mike to build a Champion. Mike would get in trouble and Teddy would want to discipline him and Cus would let it go...which he had never done in the past...according to Teddy. Cus was going against his own principles for the sake of having One last "Great" fighter that would make Cus remembered. Cus thought Mike could truly be the Greatest ever as long as Mike stays the course and stays motivated. This isn't to say Cus didn't care for him, because I do think he did...just like a lot of trainers/mentors can start to build that type of relationship with their young fighters. You can say that Cus's fighters were his kids. Torres and Patterson all said Cus cared for them; that's the type of person he was. Rooney was close with him as well and had great respect for him. I think in the end, Teddy felt betrayed Cus sold out his own values for the sake of this young brute named Mike Tyson. But Cus was desperate at his age.

D'Amato used Tyson as much as any. The difference was he had little interest in his money. He wanted another titlist. If Mike had slipped up at any point on his road to that title D'Amato would have dropped him like a stone. So he adopted him but would have dropped him? Pretty dumb if you ask me. He practically raised Mike in his teenage years. He was a father figure.

that's absurd what your saying! How can cuz be greedy?? and want another world champion.. So i guess ITS GREEDY FOR A TRAINER TO WANT TO PRODUCE a world champion??? I never mentioned the word "greed".

****in bitch Robin Givens is what really ****ed him up. Golddiggin cunt.

D'Amato used Tyson as much as any. The difference was he had little interest in his money. He wanted another titlist. If Mike had slipped up at any point on his road to that title D'Amato would have dropped him like a stone. that's absurd what your saying! How can cuz be greedy?? and want another world champion.. So i guess ITS GREEDY FOR A TRAINER TO WANT TO PRODUCE a world champion???

D'Amato used Tyson as much as any. The difference was he had little interest in his money. He wanted another titlist. If Mike had slipped up at any point on his road to that title D'Amato would have dropped him like a stone.

Once Cus D'Amato died, thats when tysons career died. He was his father figure. Mike Tyson was controlled with Cus because he knew how to handle him, and Tyson knew Cus wouldn't do nothing bad to him. When Cus died, Tyson was at his grave for days, crying and moping. Then after that, thats when we see the Mike we see today. The mean crazy Mike. He let all his anger out and he doesn't know how to control himself, and nobody knew how to control him after Cus died. It sucked to watch all his talent go to waste.

Putting Bruno away for a second time didn't require 'Prime' abilities. The moment the bell rang it was obvious he was absolutely terrified. He just stood there like a rabbit trapped in an onrushing car's headlights - waiting for the end to come. All the more confusing when you consider the sheer size and physique of Bruno. The man had less reason than most Tyson opponents to be scared (his knockout percentage was phenomenal and he had the kind of jab most boxers would kill for). I heard it went back to when Bruno met a young Tyson in sparring and encountered a terror. Plus, you have to remember that first fight carried over to the second. Bruno knew what was coming. Frank looked more scared against Tyson than he did Lewis. The thing is, Bruno was even buffer in the second fight and it couldn't build his confidence. I think people forget Tyson was only 5'11, 220, so it had to be something that made people fear him. Could it be his talent? ;)

these long winded post are why i believe you are making excuses it can all be said in one sentence he got beat by the best HW of his era cause he was overrated end of story Yes, because we all know only one sentence would be great for your lawyer to use in trial...or a writer who wants to write history books, etc. He's guilty your honor, because I said so. The British lost to the Yanks because they, well, they lost. Ali got beat by Frazier because Frazier was the better Fighter. Yeah, maybe on that night, but there were reasons. Lewis got KTFO twice by the better Man...yes, I understand where you are getting at and maybe you are right. In Nature, if you really want to look at it, she doesn't care for reasons and/or excuses. Who is standing is what counts. It's very Black and White.

Putting Bruno away for a second time didn't require 'Prime' abilities. The moment the bell rang it was obvious he was absolutely terrified. He just stood there like a rabbit trapped in an onrushing car's headlights - waiting for the end to come. All the more confusing when you consider the sheer size and physique of Bruno. The man had less reason than most Tyson opponents to be scared (his knockout percentage was phenomenal and he had the kind of jab most boxers would kill for).

Tyson may well have been 50% of what he was when he got out of prison but that combo that stopped Bruno to regain the title was truly world class!

Well than timing was an issue. By the time Holyfield and the rest were coming on board, Mike was ready to leave; he had it Mentally with the game; you can go to the post-Spinks-press conference with that...and read the stories what was taking place outside of the ring. What you can say is that Mike couldn't handle the pressure of being the youngest HW Champion, with the heavy media pressure, being one of if not the most popular athlete in the world, a shitty marriage, and didn't know how to cope with the death of Cus and Jimmy...as well as his Mother years before. Without a proper guide, he was lost. Ali had Allah and the Nation of Islam as well as Dundee; Holyfield had Jesus and Georgie Benton (for a time); Others have their trainers, parents/family/friends; I think Jack Johnson might have done it himself, I'm unsure, although I think his wife supposedly helped him...have to check; Lewis had his mother as well as Emanuel; and so on. Tyson said it himself: It just wasn't fun anymore and it was all about money after Cus and Jimmy died. People are like Cars: they run on fuel but it matters which fuel you put in your car that makes it work well or not. Like I said many times before: Everybody is given different tests in life so you must base it on that person and that test he has to go through. For instance: I find it amazing that Kassim Ouma became Champion. Tyson certainly had advantages all the way up to his first title with some drawbacks when Cus died; I don't deny that. Many fighters are not given such advantages and he blew it when he got rid of Rooney. Fighters did take Tyson's punches in his younger days. Tucker took them as well as some others and Mike still won...so what do you have to say for those fights? What about when Bruno stunned him and Mike could have caved and he didn't? And the Ruddock fights? You do realize that when a Fighter is not properly trained Mentally and Physically his chances of winning even against a decent opponent goes down, right? Think Lewis vs Rahman I and then Rahman rematch. Ali vs Spinks and then the rematch. Many fighters have lost to lesser opponents because they were not preparing Mentally and Physicall for the fight. The difference between them and Tyson was that Tyson had enough and didn't have an honest reason to stay in. And did you notice any difference in Fighting ability from when he was with Rooney and without...as well as a character change? Bully: I thought about his as well about others. Lennox: If you look at it, Lewis was bigger than 95% of his opponents; where Mike was the smaller guy in his fights. This doesn't say anything? It's funny that a fighter in the lower weight classes, say 130 that moves up just 5 pounds gets credit, but a Heavyweight that his out-weighed by more, gets none. We also have Hatton; another exposed fighter. He was doing well at 140 when he could bully past prime fighters, but once he stepped up his competition and moved up one division, he barely escaped a knockout loss to Collazzo. And then, he loses to a former lightweight, although Great, by getting bullied back and he fell apart. I like Ali, but I always wonder why he didn't give George a rematch. And for George, rumors of you avoiding both Shavers and Holmes doesn't look good; I hear Tucker as well. The same goes for Tyson with the rumor he avoided Foreman. And Calzaghe never moving up one division to fight Roy in his prime. One division isn't much considering Roy started his career at 154. Bullies take advantage of Shot fighters after knowing they could have met the Fighter in their prime. Vitali: Quit against Chris Byrd. Arguello, Duran, Tszyu, Morales, etc. All Quitters. There are so many ways of looking at it all. For McBride: again, you pick a time in Tyson's career where was completely shot and his corner did stop the fight even though I too think Tyson wanted out and may have asked for it. Tyson's trainer had stopped other fights quickly by throwing in the towel for his fighter so it wasn't a first. But let's remember: Tyson didn't quit against Douglas when he could have; nor did he quit against Tucker when he was stunned, Bruno, Ruddock, Holyfield in a match he was losing and stunned badly only to come out the follow round to be knocked out on his feet; Lewis who battered him to the final finish of whatever was left; and Williams, where Tyson tore his knee and decided to go on. He was never the same after prison,let alone after Spinks. You can hold against him that he didn't know when to quit; he should have retired after Spinks since he gave the indication he was fed up and wanted out. these long winded post are why i believe you are making excuses it can all be said in one sentence he got beat by the best HW of his era cause he was overrated end of story

all i know is what i see a guy who knocks over lesser oponents and then gets exposed when he fights the better fighters who can take his punches and a guy that bails when he is frustrated he did quit against McBride am i not telling the truth ?shot or not he quit Well than timing was an issue. By the time Holyfield and the rest were coming on board, Mike was ready to leave; he had it Mentally with the game; you can go to the post-Spinks-press conference with that...and read the stories what was taking place outside of the ring. What you can say is that Mike couldn't handle the pressure of being the youngest HW Champion, with the heavy media pressure, being one of if not the most popular athlete in the world, a shitty marriage, and didn't know how to cope with the death of Cus and Jimmy...as well as his Mother years before. Without a proper guide, he was lost. Ali had Allah and the Nation of Islam as well as Dundee; Holyfield had Jesus and Georgie Benton (for a time); Others have their trainers, parents/family/friends; I think Jack Johnson might have done it himself, I'm unsure, although I think his wife supposedly helped him...have to check; Lewis had his mother as well as Emanuel; and so on. Tyson said it himself: It just wasn't fun anymore and it was all about money after Cus and Jimmy died. People are like Cars: they run on fuel but it matters which fuel you put in your car that makes it work well or not. Like I said many times before: Everybody is given different tests in life so you must base it on that person and that test he has to go through. For instance: I find it amazing that Kassim Ouma became Champion. Tyson certainly had advantages all the way up to his first title with some drawbacks when Cus died; I don't deny that. Many fighters are not given such advantages and he blew it when he got rid of Rooney. Fighters did take Tyson's punches in his younger days. Tucker took them as well as some others and Mike still won...so what do you have to say for those fights? What about when Bruno stunned him and Mike could have caved and he didn't? And the Ruddock fights? You do realize that when a Fighter is not properly trained Mentally and Physically his chances of winning even against a decent opponent goes down, right? Think Lewis vs Rahman I and then Rahman rematch. Ali vs Spinks and then the rematch. Many fighters have lost to lesser opponents because they were not preparing Mentally and Physicall for the fight. The difference between them and Tyson was that Tyson had enough and didn't have an honest reason to stay in. And did you notice any difference in Fighting ability from when he was with Rooney and without...as well as a character change? Bully: I thought about his as well about others. Lennox: If you look at it, Lewis was bigger than 95% of his opponents; where Mike was the smaller guy in his fights. This doesn't say anything? It's funny that a fighter in the lower weight classes, say 130 that moves up just 5 pounds gets credit, but a Heavyweight that his out-weighed by more, gets none. We also have Hatton; another exposed fighter. He was doing well at 140 when he could bully past prime fighters, but once he stepped up his competition and moved up one division, he barely escaped a knockout loss to Collazzo. And then, he loses to a former lightweight, although Great, by getting bullied back and he fell apart. I like Ali, but I always wonder why he didn't give George a rematch. And for George, rumors of you avoiding both Shavers and Holmes doesn't look good; I hear Tucker as well. The same goes for Tyson with the rumor he avoided Foreman. And Calzaghe never moving up one division to fight Roy in his prime. One division isn't much considering Roy started his career at 154. Bullies take advantage of Shot fighters after knowing they could have met the Fighter in their prime. Vitali: Quit against Chris Byrd. Arguello, Duran, Tszyu, Morales, etc. All Quitters. There are so many ways of looking at it all. For McBride: again, you pick a time in Tyson's career where was completely shot and his corner did stop the fight even though I too think Tyson wanted out and may have asked for it. Tyson's trainer had stopped other fights quickly by throwing in the towel for his fighter so it wasn't a first. But let's remember: Tyson didn't quit against Douglas when he could have; nor did he quit against Tucker when he was stunned, Bruno, Ruddock, Holyfield in a match he was losing and stunned badly only to come out the follow round to be knocked out on his feet; Lewis who battered him to the final finish of whatever was left; and Williams, where Tyson tore his knee and decided to go on. He was never the same after prison,let alone after Spinks. You can hold against him that he didn't know when to quit; he should have retired after Spinks since he gave the indication he was fed up and wanted out.

I separate excuses from reasons. Excuses are based on lies that you conjure up. Reasons are based more on fact that seems plausible. The fact still remains, when he was with Rooney, he was undefeated and appeared to be a great fighter; without, he was a mess. He didn't have the capacity to do it on his own. Your the one who used the McBride fight:pat: all i know is what i see a guy who knocks over lesser oponents and then gets exposed when he fights the better fighters who can take his punches and a guy that bails when he is frustrated he did quit against McBride am i not telling the truth ?shot or not he quit

there are excuses at every junction of Tyson's career he is,was overrated and he got exposed because he NEVER had the mental capacity to be a GREAT fighter period you can believe what you want you wont change my opinion i dont buy all the excuses I separate excuses from reasons. Excuses are based on lies that you conjure up. Reasons are based more on fact that seems plausible. The fact still remains, when he was with Rooney, he was undefeated and appeared to be a great fighter; without, he was a mess. He didn't have the capacity to do it on his own. Your the one who used the McBride fight:pat:

Funny, I remember Tyson going the distance more than a few times in his young days and kept fighting. And Ruddock talked trash to Mike in both fights. Even Berbick came charging at Mike but once Mike caught him, like everybody else, they weren't the same. When he had no answers it was when he was without Rooney. Most fighters need their trainers for answers and if it is not for that, it is support/coaching. Even Ali needed it. I remember hearing the b.s. that if a fighter got up against Mike, that was it, which I always found funny because Tyson would just pounce them when they got up. It was later on that you could see he didn't want to be there anymore. And I'm glad you brought up McBride because it was pointed out in the fight that Tyson started to chew on his gloves like he did as an inexperienced amatuer. His whole career went backwards after Rooney...especially after prison. The fouling, the constant clinching, the one shot at a time, etc. There was no more progression after Rooney, it was only regression. Which is really odd when you look at it. Your statement against McBride shows your lack of knowledge to investigate and think on your own. Everybody knows Tyson was shot by then; Mentally and Physically. He was fighting for the money and didn't want to be there. Like he said: "My career was over since 1990" and "I haven't wanted to fight since 1990." He didn't have the heart to fight anymore...that's something you need. People change with time; with experience in life; through the wear and tear. Arguello quit; Duran quit; Tszyu quit; and many others towards the end. Other fighters just allow their cornerman to stop the fight, which Tyson's corner said they did. Tyson was exhausted and you could see it when he fell down. If you want to say he "quit" there is nothing wrong with it to a point...I think he quit a long time ago. But, If he was a quiter, he could have quit against Douglas at any time. He could have quit after being punched by Tucker or Bruno or Ruddock...or when he came out of prison and didn't want to fight but did because he had to; he fought on. He was stunned badly against Holyfield if you remember but came back out the following round to be finished off being knocked out on his feet. Or Lewis, who beat the crap out of him. That fight was really the end of whatever was left of the shell. After that, Tyson didn't even want to take another shot. There was nothing left of him. there are excuses at every junction of Tyson's career he is,was overrated and he got exposed because he NEVER had the mental capacity to be a GREAT fighter period you can believe what you want you wont change my opinion i dont buy all the excuses