A "W" for Roy Jones Jr. is Great, where a "W" for Joe Calzaghe is good...but neither

I thought you were talking about Blow, not Jones. My bad. No problem. :)

I meant right now I don't understand how he can be considered better than the majority, I meant where after his 3 losses back to back has he proven that he is better than the majority right now, I know he's better than the majority prime for prime but is he better than the majority today? I don't know because he hasn't proven it to me with the 3 wins he has had since his third fight with Tarver. I thought you were talking about Blow, not Jones. My bad.

Disagree? Give me names of anyone they ducked. I'm a Calzaghe fan but I feel like I know Calzaghe well and I do feel like he ducked Glenn Johnson, twice to be specific. And I believe frank warren had to pay Glenn Johnson for Calzaghe not wanting to fight Johnson. But that is not a real shocker, most people duck johnson because they know how tough he is. Dawson will never ever take a rematch against Johnson. Mark my words.

Calzaghe has had a better career than Jones purely due to his consistancy. calz and jone were both fairly consistent fighting bums that much i can agree. Jones in his prime was better but who did he prove it against? Hopkins and J. Toney to name 2.

Some great points. Hulk agrees that a loss for Calzaghe would be pretty bad purely because Roy is revered and Calzaghe is fairly disliked. It would allow the criticism of Cal's abilities whilst also lauding RJJs. Very very unlikely to happen though. Calzaghe has had a better career than Jones purely due to his consistancy. Jones in his prime was better but who did he prove it against? This comes from Hulk who doesn't much like greasy, arrogant Welshman. It's very hard to level a charge that either Calzaghe, Jones OR Hopkins ducked anyone. That's what makes their lack of top opposition acceptable. Disagree? Give me names of anyone they ducked.

If Calzaghe doesn't win, it ruins his legacy and almost everything he has achieved because boxing is a harsh sport like that.

hey did it ever occur to you it's a matter of opinion dumb nuts? different people have different views on things, who are you to decide who gets what credit? hey did it ever occur to you that calling people dumb nuts is a matter of opinion? different people have different views on things, who are you to decide who is a dumb nut?

if calz KOs jones he shouldn't get any credit. rjj is shot and calz should be able to dominate and KO jones. hey did it ever occur to you it's a matter of opinion dumb nuts? different people have different views on things, who are you to decide who gets what credit?

well i think if calzaghe manages to ko rjj he will be credited as ending the career of jones and thats a great accomplishment specially in your last match calzaghe really needs a ko he is gonna have the judges against him because he declared this will be his last fight tito vs oscar anyone? if calz KOs jones he shouldn't get any credit. rjj is shot and calz should be able to dominate and KO jones.

A "W" for Roy Jones Jr. is Great, where a "W" for Joe Calzaghe is good...but neither man is facing a major loss in my opinion. no, if calz loses is a major loss because rjj is shot. Does Calzaghe deserve credit for beating Roy Jones Jr., absolutely. Why? Roy is still a pretty damn good fighter even at nearly 40 years old. Calz gets no credit. rjj is shot. rjj couldn't even stop a retired and bloated tito. But in the same way Lennox Lewis can't say he beat the best Mike Tyson, Joe Calzaghe/nor his fans should claim he beat the best Roy Jones Jr. Why? Its simply not true. true. Now if Roy beats Joe Calzaghe, one could also make the argument that Roy didn't beat the best Joe Calzaghe. Due to the fact that Joe Calzaghe is 36 years old, it is reasonable to say hes is also not in his prime. true, but calz is closer to his prime than rjj and that's really saying something if a shot rjj can beat calz. I agree, but a win for Jones(for obvious reasons), is still bigger than a win for Calzaghe. A loss for Joe, I would argue is not bad for Joe. Joe could say that Roy is one of the best ever and he managed to turn back the clock. A loss for Roy, he could simply say Joe at this stage was just too much for him to handle. So really there is no major loser on the 8th, there can only be a winner. wrong. a loss by calzaghe will be devastating. if calzaghe doesn't dominate or has another close fight ala hopkins, it will definitely tarnish calzaghe even should he win. That's why Calz shouldn't be giving shot fighters these kinds of chances. Calz needs to win and look good winning. If Joe beats Roy. Good for him. If Roy beats Joe, great for him only because he is such an underdog. The point is, whoever loses, should not have their legacy damaged too badly at all. And that while a win for Joe is good, a win for Roy is great due to each fighters being a different places in their careers. But when either fighter loses, neither should take a big legacy hit. wrong. if rjj loses he wont' take a legacy hit because everyone knows he's shot. but if calz loses, or even has a close fight with a shot rjj, his legacy will take a hit because he hasn't done shit his whole career until the tail end.

Well, he did fight Hop who has just once again proven that he is a top P4P guy with skills that would beat anyone in and around LHW that I can think of. What say you about that win? Great, Good or just Ok? A win that was more decisive than any since his Jones loss 15 years ago when Hop was green. I meant right now I don't understand how he can be considered better than the majority, I meant where after his 3 losses back to back has he proven that he is better than the majority right now, I know he's better than the majority prime for prime but is he better than the majority today? I don't know because he hasn't proven it to me with the 3 wins he has had since his third fight with Tarver.

I don't know how you can say he's proven he's better than the majority out there right now. Well, he did fight Hop who has just once again proven that he is a top P4P guy with skills that would beat anyone in and around LHW that I can think of. What say you about that win? Great, Good or just Ok? A win that was more decisive than any since his Jones loss 15 years ago when Hop was green.

^i agree, you should never take away a whole career off one loss. Calzaghe has had a great career.

roy fought a shit load of worthy competitors, a bunch of undefeated prospects plenty of which went on to be champs, he fought the 1 p4p champion at the time also beating the number 1 ranked middleweight at the time, i mean come on, who has calzaghe fought in his prime? Hop wasn't the No. 1 ranked MW at the time. Toney was, however, the number one P4P by most folks consensus. Jones has an underrated resume. Sure, the best fighters he fought, as in the big names that would have given him a serious run for his money and may have even beaten him, were over it by then, but he still fought a lot of young good fighters and even the old guys would have given all but the top fellas serious problems. Case in point: McCallum. Toney got him in his prime. Jones got him when he was done and done.

A "W" for Roy Jones Jr. is Great, where a "W" for Joe Calzaghe is good...but neither man is facing a major loss in my opinion. Lets put things in perspective... Roy Jones Jr. is 39 years old....FACT. Most great fighters at 39 are a shell of their former selves or retired...FACT. Check what Leonard was doing in his late 30's-40's. Roy Jones Jr. is expected to lose by most boxing fans and insiders....FACT. Roy Jones Jr.'s best days are probably anywhere from 7-10 years ago....OPINION/but i think many would agree thats also a fact. __________________________________________________________________ Joe Calzaghe, while he is past his physical prime(36), is one the best fighters in the world.....FACT (in fact, I think hes probably #2 p4p. Joe Calzaghe is expected to win...FACT. 4-1 favorite Joe Calzaghe is undefeated and has had some of his best wins recently...FACT. __________________________________________________________________ Does Calzaghe deserve credit for beating Roy Jones Jr., absolutely. Why? Roy is still a pretty damn good fighter even at nearly 40 years old. But in the same way Lennox Lewis can't say he beat the best Mike Tyson, Joe Calzaghe/nor his fans should claim he beat the best Roy Jones Jr. Why? Its simply not true. Now if Roy beats Joe Calzaghe, one could also make the argument that Roy didn't beat the best Joe Calzaghe. Due to the fact that Joe Calzaghe is 36 years old, it is reasonable to say hes is also not in his prime. I agree, but a win for Jones(for obvious reasons), is still bigger than a win for Calzaghe. A loss for Joe, I would argue is not bad for Joe. Joe could say that Roy is one of the best ever and he managed to turn back the clock. A loss for Roy, he could simply say Joe at this stage was just too much for him to handle. So really there is no major loser on the 8th, there can only be a winner. If Joe beats Roy. Good for him. If Roy beats Joe, great for him only because he is such an underdog. The point is, whoever loses, should not have their legacy damaged too badly at all. And that while a win for Joe is good, a win for Roy is great due to each fighters being a different places in their careers. But when either fighter loses, neither should take a big legacy hit. Great post mate. The sad fact here is though that the majority of people will use this loss, if indeed Calzaflappy did lose, to completely discredit his entire career. Hopkins will be forgotten and people will say he fought as a twenty year old against Pavlik but against Joe he was showing his age and was old and had a bad night. Kessler, Lacy, Eubanks, Mitchell, Brewer, Woodhall, Veit etc etc will all become over-the-hill or nobodies that he fought and that will simply make a loss against an over-the-hill Jones that much worse. Things like "If Jonhson and Tarver could KO Jones years beforehand but Calzonie lost then that means he's worse than both of those guys. He was never anything to begin with but an overrated, hyped up Euro-trash bum that was overly protected.", will become the staple thread of NSB for months afterwards. I personally think they're both pretty shit at this stage, comparative to their earlier selves, and that either guy winning should still be considered great in fact. There are still very few fighters out there that could beat either guy, like it or not. A win for Jones is of course much greater because he is more shot than Blow, but it is still a very solid win for Joe Blow and anyone that thinks otherwise should try and remember what they were saying right after Jones beat Tito. As you yourself said, most fighters after their mid thirties are shells of their former selves and both of these guys are after their mid thirties, with Joe being closer than Jones though. When it comes down to it, he posses' the one thing that made him great in a time of slow come-forward fighters, his speed. His reflexes are gone and his defense has suffered because of that. Nonetheless, he was knocked down in his prime, and I personally believe that a Tarver would have demolished him 7 times out of ten. Most people forget that he was very nearly KO'd early in his career, when he was in his utter prime freak stage being very, very hurt. I'm trying to remember if it was against a southpaw or not though ... ? I digress! The thing that really gets my goat at the moment is that everyone has already, within two weeks, moved onto the next person that Calzanie is ducking and needs to fight to prove himself. The big man was Pavlik and the talk before the Hopkins fight was getting to the 'loony' type stage. "CAlzaghe has been ducking Pavlik 'The Destroyer' for years now! That Euro bums whole career means nothing unless he fights the true prime, undefeated champ Pavlik!". Now that Pavlik has been destroyed horribly by Hopkins, the guy that Calzonie just beat, nothing more has been heard about it, from anybody, even the most psychotic of that lot. Nonetheless, the excuses suddenly start coming out. "Calzonie didn't even hit him at all", "Hopkins had a bad night", "Calzonie lost that fight anyway and Hopkins was brutally robbed...in Vegas", "Shilstone ruined Hopkins, even though he had him in the best shape ever for Tarver, but that didn't matter anyway." etc etc. So, as always, their is a new guy Calzonie needs to prove himself against and that is now not Jones, Hopkins or PAvlik but Dawson. Another young, undefeated fighter without a great deal of experience and with only a couple of defenses none of which have been up against serious other young prospects. He beat an old Johnson and Tarver and a decent fighter in Adamek. He had trouble in both the Johnson fight, which many think he may have even lost (I don't at all) and was knocked down and hurt against Adamek. Triangle theory doesn't work, but if a similar fighter beats another similar fighter ie. Calzaghe and Hopkins (both are great at spoiling their opponents best weapons and taking them off their game plan, it certainly helps to see possible or more likely outcomes. If Cazonie had beat Pavlik as well as Hop, which I personally think he would have, he would have had not even close to the amount of appreciation that Hop got. It would have been "Pavlik was untested and green and hadn't fought anyone just like Lacy and Kessler. Hoplins was over the hill just like Eubanks" He is simply one of those strange guys that it will never end with. I'm not even a great fan, I just absolutely love reading the shite criticism and hypocrisy that come from the majority of people with this subject. Long, long, long rant over. Good post mate. :fing02:

well actually i did'nt know what you meant, prime wise or currently?.. cuz if you mean prime he would slaughter the majority of fighters now Currently.

Well he may have had a few consecutive losses and not what he was, but he's still ranked the #6 LHW.

:wtf1: ............ I don't know how you can say he's proven he's better than the majority out there right now.

But in reality, I think it is a good win for Joe because 65-70% of what Roy Jones was, is still better than many light heavys today.

People will just say Calzaghe beat a shot fighter, it's not a good situation for Calzaghe, Jones hasn't proven anything to say he's better than the majority out there, people will just look at Jones' resume and see he lost 3 times in a row 2 by brutal knockout and came back to beat Prince Badi Ajamu, Anthony Hanshaw and a past prime, fat Tito Trinidad, it's not a good situation for him.