Clarification: Cotto The Boxer

LOL, this is funny shit. I might have to change it though.

Most of what you say here is correct. I agree that once Hatton tires he does smother himself and his plan weakens. I am a fan of his so I always think of him as he is at his best, and at it, I still believe he is a better pressure fighter than Cotto. If you look at your analysis of Cotto's game which is accurate, you will see that in some ways you are describing is a pressure fighter who applies his pressure in quite a methodical, boxing way, rather tha being 'in your face'. I agree Cotto is good at this, but I think it is tailor made for Floyd, as we saw with De La Hoya. It doesn't make Cotto a bad fighter. Ha! Maybe! What I think I should have said is that a lot of talk of how Cotto will beat Floyd is centering around Cotto's boxing skill, in which department he is hopelessly outgunned by Mayweather. He would be better advised to jump all over Mayweather from the start than get engaged in any kind of boxing match. I prefer to try and explain why I think the things I do, I don't think its wasting time. I do agree that Cotto has demonstrated an improvement in his skills and a willingness to adapt recently, but I don't agree that he beats his opponents in radically different ways. Whatever the 'dressing' of Cotto's game in a given fight he ultimately derives his advantage from decent, methodical pressure, backed by sound technicals and decent speed. His formula of good fundamentals and an aggressive strategy, with a degree of adaptation, again relying on his decent fundamentals, means he is too much for most opponents, even in the absence of a single standout, worldbeating attribute. I just don't think it will be enough against Floyd, he just doesn't have that extra something that will give Floyd trouble. As for whether he is more made for Floyd than Hatton was, or whether he will look better, let me repeat: he won't ge knocked out, so he'll look better that way, but nor will he press Floyd into having to up his game. We WILL see the trademark Mayweather potshot and decison fight, so in that sense he is more suited to Floyd than Hatton was. It doesn't make him worse than Ricky though. Good post, but I must respond later.

I think this is incorrect, especially when considering the opponent. Hatton is a smothering type of pressure fighter. He'd make his way in with head movement and good footwork, leaping in with a left (or any punch for that matter) to the head/body, following up with rough housing, short body shots inside and chopping head shots. This went over fairly well against Floyd, until Floyd adjusted to it. After Hatton started to slow down in that fight his tactics had an adverse effect. He started smothering himself and his lack of an arsenal really showed up. This is exactly why Floyd caught him with that perfect hook and knocked him silly. Ricky was as predictable as the word gets, leaping in with a desperate shot. Cotto's footwork when pressuring his opponent is excellent. Calling him a plodder is well off base. Cotto may not have the foot speed of Hatton, but he also likes to fight from a different distance than Ricky. Cotto has very deliberate footwork which virtually always puts him into a position to punch and control space. He cuts that ring off as well as anyone today. This is why his most undervalued trait is his ability to control space. In addition to this, Cotto rarely smothers himself and throws a variety of punches to the head and body. The Quintana fight is the best recent example of this I can think of. The distance, the punches, the angles...all calculated and very effective. Most of what you say here is correct. I agree that once Hatton tires he does smother himself and his plan weakens. I am a fan of his so I always think of him as he is at his best, and at it, I still believe he is a better pressure fighter than Cotto. If you look at your analysis of Cotto's game which is accurate, you will see that in some ways you are describing is a pressure fighter who applies his pressure in quite a methodical, boxing way, rather tha being 'in your face'. I agree Cotto is good at this, but I think it is tailor made for Floyd, as we saw with De La Hoya. It doesn't make Cotto a bad fighter. What? You could have shortened your entire post to, "Cotto's skill will count for nothing against Floyd and he will lose badly." Save yourself some time. Ha! Maybe! What I think I should have said is that a lot of talk of how Cotto will beat Floyd is centering around Cotto's boxing skill, in which department he is hopelessly outgunned by Mayweather. He would be better advised to jump all over Mayweather from the start than get engaged in any kind of boxing match. I prefer to try and explain why I think the things I do, I don't think its wasting time. The funny thing here is that Cotto fights no particular way against a given opponent. Save maybe one or two fights, Cotto changes his approach in-fight and adapts to what his opponent is doing. This is something Floyd is very well known for as well (and rightfully so). Saying, "stylistically Cotto is a better fight for Floyd", is totally wrong in my opinion considering Cotto is a guy who adapts throughout fights. Also considering he is significantly stronger and more well-balanced than is Hatton. When you couple these ideas with the fact that Cotto fights well behind his jab (which Ricky somewhat lacks) and can cause damage even with blocked/glancing shots, I think he presents a tougher match for Floyd. I do agree that Cotto has demonstrated an improvement in his skills and a willingness to adapt recently, but I don't agree that he beats his opponents in radically different ways. Whatever the 'dressing' of Cotto's game in a given fight he ultimately derives his advantage from decent, methodical pressure, backed by sound technicals and decent speed. His formula of good fundamentals and an aggressive strategy, with a degree of adaptation, again relying on his decent fundamentals, means he is too much for most opponents, even in the absence of a single standout, worldbeating attribute. I just don't think it will be enough against Floyd, he just doesn't have that extra something that will give Floyd trouble. As for whether he is more made for Floyd than Hatton was, or whether he will look better, let me repeat: he won't ge knocked out, so he'll look better that way, but nor will he press Floyd into having to up his game. We WILL see the trademark Mayweather potshot and decison fight, so in that sense he is more suited to Floyd than Hatton was. It doesn't make him worse than Ricky though.

Abadger, Apologize, you posted twice before I finished mine. Copy all the above. Thanks for the insight No need to apologise, it was a valid question. I appreciate any poster who manages to disagree without flaming and actually asks for the other posters opinion though. Nice one.

For abadger: For me Cotto is not as good a pure pressure fighter as Ricky Hatton, he is both slower and more predictable in his approach to that tactic. Where Ricky bounces from side to side, Cotto plods forward. I think this is incorrect, especially when considering the opponent. Hatton is a smothering type of pressure fighter. He'd make his way in with head movement and good footwork, leaping in with a left (or any punch for that matter) to the head/body, following up with rough housing, short body shots inside and chopping head shots. This went over fairly well against Floyd, until Floyd adjusted to it. After Hatton started to slow down in that fight his tactics had an adverse effect. He started smothering himself and his lack of an arsenal really showed up. This is exactly why Floyd caught him with that perfect hook and knocked him silly. Ricky was as predictable as the word gets, leaping in with a desperate shot. Cotto's footwork when pressuring his opponent is excellent. Calling him a plodder is well off base. Cotto may not have the foot speed of Hatton, but he also likes to fight from a different distance than Ricky. Cotto has very deliberate footwork which virtually always puts him into a position to punch and control space. He cuts that ring off as well as anyone today. This is why his most undervalued trait is his ability to control space. In addition to this, Cotto rarely smothers himself and throws a variety of punches to the head and body. The Quintana fight is the best recent example of this I can think of. The distance, the punches, the angles...all calculated and very effective. So then we have Cotto relying on his more 'rounded' skills to beat Floyd, and quite simply he has no chance of doing this. However good he is perceived to be he is not even as good a boxer as De La Hoya, let alone Mayweather. Cotto's 'rounded' boxing skills will count for nothing against Floyd because he won't even get close to making them count. What? You could have shortened this part to, "Cotto's skill will count for nothing against Floyd and he will lose badly." Save yourself some time. So what I am saying is this: yes Cotto has more all around talent than Hatton, yes if the two were to fight Cotto would probably win, but stylistically the way that Cotto fights is better for Floyd than Hatton was. To beat Hatton Mayweather had to KTFO him, against Cotto he won't have to, Cotto will be easier to contain and his game easier to nullify. The funny thing here is that Cotto fights no particular way against a given opponent. Save maybe one or two fights, Cotto changes his approach in-fight and adapts to what his opponent is doing. This is something Floyd is very well known for as well (and rightfully so). Saying, "stylistically Cotto is a better fight for Floyd", is totally wrong in my opinion considering Cotto is a guy who adapts throughout fights. Also considering he is significantly stronger and more well-balanced than is Hatton. When you couple these ideas with the fact that Cotto fights well behind his jab (which Ricky somewhat lacks) and can cause damage even with blocked/glancing shots, I think he presents a tougher match for Floyd.

Lots of thought went into this and I agree that you have to respect the effort. To say that Cotto will be exposed as more one-dimensional than Hatton is mind boggling. Would you would say that Cotto would have lost to Luis Collazo???? At 147, Hatton hasn't demonstrated that he can deal with decent slick boxers to date - Cotto has. Very interested in listening to some evidence as to why Floyd would have an easier time with Cotto than with Hatton/DLH. Abadger, Apologize, you posted twice before I finished mine. Copy all the above. Thanks for the insight

'Cotto the boxer' is definitely a new opinion. I've watched it appear on these boards over say the last year. Cotto has appeared to be improving, but his fans now talk of him as a 'do everything' boxer with excellent speed, power, technique and aggression. The reality is that Cotto is a good pressure fighter who has added a little patience and tactical astuteness to his game. We sometimes tend to forget that all elite level boxers tend to have good baseline boxing skills underpinning whatever their own particular strength is, and we shouldn't get carried away when they demonstrate them. I think this 'Cotto is complete' idea actually has little to do with Cotto himself and much more to do with his status as Mayweather's number 1 challenger. We have started looking at Cotto and asking ourselves not "what does he do?" but "how does he match up to Mayweather?" and it leads us to seize upon small areas of his game and blow them up into key features, because if he didn't have them, then how could he beat Floyd? I'm pretty sure that when Cotto does finally get into the ring he will be made to look quite one-dimensional, maybe even more than Hatton did. I predict a fairly easy decision for Floyd, with Floyd not having to extend himself a great deal, which say what you like, he did against Hatton. It will look like the Oscar v Floyd fight, but won't be as close. I remember many posters here, myself included, talking hatton up as 'complete' in the same way Cotto is being talked up now. I don't think we should make the same mistakes again. Lots of thought went into this and I agree that you have to respect the effort. To say that Cotto will be exposed as more one-dimensional than Hatton is mind boggling. Would you would say that Cotto would have lost to Luis Collazo???? At 147, Hatton hasn't demonstrated that he can deal with decent slick boxers to date - Cotto has. Very interested in listening to some evidence as to why Floyd would have an easier time with Cotto than with Hatton/DLH.

Cotto presents a different challenge and sort of pressure than Hatton. Cotto is a bigger guy, better jab, his combos are more fluid, better boxing skills and has that peek-a-boo defense, and he's more methodical. Hatton has quicker feet, hands (single shots at least) and comes right at you with a more swarming style. He looks to break and re-start the action with his clinches. He gives you less time to set up and re-set. He also throws punches from different angles, thanks in part to how quickly he can pivot and change positions. I think Cotto will fare better versus Mayweather than Hatton did, but we'll have to wait and see if and when it ever happens (I think it will in 2009) I agree with everything you say. Cotto's single biggest chance in the fight is that his size allows him to take whatever Mayweather has to give and as you say, just methodically keep working on Floyd. I don't think it will work out like that though, as I've said, such an approach is exactly what De La Hoya attempted. As for Cotto looking better, well it would be hard not to, wouldn't it? He won't get KO'd and embarassed, but I think Floyd's potshot game will be enough to beat him, which it wouldn't have been against Hatton.

Cotto is more versatile than Hatton, I agree with you, but I am talking about how he will look against Mayweather. For me Cotto is not as good a pure pressure fighter as Ricky Hatton, he is both slower and more predictable in his approach to that tactic. Where Ricky bounces from side to side, Cotto plods forward. Cotto's pressure will not be as effective against Floyd as Ricky's was (at first) and Mayweather will not have to unleash anything more exciting than potshots to deal with it. So then we have Cotto relying on his more 'rounded' skills to beat Floyd, and quite simply he has no chance of doing this. However good he is perceived to be he is not even as good a boxer as De La Hoya, let alone Mayweather. Cotto's 'rounded' boxing skills will count for nothing against Floyd because he won't even get close to making them count. So what I am saying is this: yes Cotto has more all around talent than Hatton, yes if the two were to fight Cotto would probably win, but stylistically the way that Cotto fights is better for Floyd than Hatton was. To beat Hatton Mayweather had to KTFO him, against Cotto he won't have to, Cotto will be easier to contain and his game easier to nullify. Cotto presents a different challenge and sort of pressure than Hatton. Cotto is a bigger guy, better jab, his combos are more fluid, better boxing skills and has that peek-a-boo defense, and he's more methodical. Hatton has quicker feet, hands (single shots at least) and comes right at you with a more swarming style. He looks to break and re-start the action with his clinches. He gives you less time to set up and re-set. He also throws punches from different angles, thanks in part to how quickly he can pivot and change positions. I think Cotto will fare better versus Mayweather than Hatton did, but we'll have to wait and see if and when it ever happens (I think it will in 2009)

I want the old Addison back! Who is this cum slurping Margarito fanatic that has high-jacked his account? Har har har, Jokey Smurf.. You come here for social reasons, right? Haven't discovered girls yet, eh Shawn?

I didn't compare Margarito to Saddler, mentally handicapped one.. Of course there's no objection coming from you that I compared Cotto to Pep. I want the old Addison back! Who is this cum slurping Margarito fanatic that has high-jacked his account?

Cotto has shown more versatility than Hatton in his career so the thought of Cotto appearing more "one dimensional" than Hatton at Floyd's hands has me questioning your knowledge on the subject. Cotto is more versatile than Hatton, I agree with you, but I am talking about how he will look against Mayweather. For me Cotto is not as good a pure pressure fighter as Ricky Hatton, he is both slower and more predictable in his approach to that tactic. Where Ricky bounces from side to side, Cotto plods forward. Cotto's pressure will not be as effective against Floyd as Ricky's was (at first) and Mayweather will not have to unleash anything more exciting than potshots to deal with it. So then we have Cotto relying on his more 'rounded' skills to beat Floyd, and quite simply he has no chance of doing this. However good he is perceived to be he is not even as good a boxer as De La Hoya, let alone Mayweather. Cotto's 'rounded' boxing skills will count for nothing against Floyd because he won't even get close to making them count. So what I am saying is this: yes Cotto has more all around talent than Hatton, yes if the two were to fight Cotto would probably win, but stylistically the way that Cotto fights is better for Floyd than Hatton was. To beat Hatton Mayweather had to KTFO him, against Cotto he won't have to, Cotto will be easier to contain and his game easier to nullify.

Please tell me you just didn't compare Margarito to Saddler. Normally you are a pretty reasonable guy, but lately its seems like Margarito's semen is slowly leaking out of your ass. Saying Margarito has very good boxing ability? Comparing Margarito to Sandy Saddler? Margarito is an extremely accurate puncher? Jesus, what is next? Margarito fathered Tye Fields? Give me a break! I didn't compare Margarito to Saddler, mentally handicapped one.. Of course there's no objection coming from you that I compared Cotto to Pep.

Cotto's dedicated fans like to point out that he outBoxed so and so back when.. But the truth is; this current popular view of Cotto as a Boxer extraordinaire is a very new one. He developed the reputation virtually overnight. This time one year ago he was known simply as a body destroyer - with even potentially limited skills. Talk about how all of this came about, and your view on the subject. That's mainly because boxing fans have short memories. Cotto was hardly this stalking pressure fighter who didn't box against guys like Ceballos, Ndou, and Abdullaev.

This is a question that has to be asked. The suggestion here coming from certain people is that Cotto's Boxing ability is so tremendous, so incredible, he'll be able to outBox an opponent like Antonio Margarito entirely. Does anyone have any idea what that would involve? What that would take? :lol1: For anyone who knows the slightest bit about actual combat, to say that is a somewhat tall order would be an understatement of epic proportions. Not only does Margarito have very good Boxing abilities himself, he's a hydra, an octopus of long arms coming from every angle known to man in constant non-stop succession. Margarito is an extremely accurate improvisational puncher who can throw from any distance or quarters. His punches follow you around the ring like a fly on shit. The greatest pure Boxer to ever live, Willie Pep, had a virtually unsolvable puzzle as his nemesis with the hard throwing, volume punching, long limbed Sandy Saddler. Sound familiar? These guys are not easy. Please tell me you just didn't compare Margarito to Saddler. Normally you are a pretty reasonable guy, but lately its seems like Margarito's semen is slowly leaking out of your ass. Saying Margarito has very good boxing ability? Comparing Margarito to Sandy Saddler? Margarito is an extremely accurate puncher? Jesus, what is next? Margarito fathered Tye Fields? Give me a break!

I have maintained that Cotto has one of the most well-rounded skill sets of any young fighter I have seen in quite awhile. I was saying this before 95% of you were here. Back when the only other cat talking about Cotto like this was Borikua. Cotto is very skilled and can do anything he needs to do to win. Box, brawl, and any combination of the two. Watching him 4/5/6 years ago was great because he was a younger fighter who just tore through some very capable opponents. He showed supreme skill, tenacity and a cold, deliberate killer instinct. You think the hype is bad now, you should have seen a few of us after he blew Vic Sosa out of the water. Fuck, I was thinking he would be unstoppable. He hasn't been stopped to date obviously, but as he steps up and up his flaws are realized. So to sum up, I think Cotto will KO Margarito with the first punch he throws. G'day. This is why the fella here gets rated highly, ^ there's always some good meat on the bones. Over enthusiasm is a problem of course..

Cotto has shown more versatility than Hatton in his career so the thought of Cotto appearing more "one dimensional" than Hatton at Floyd's hands has me questioning your knowledge on the subject. it makes me sad to read things like that as well.

Cotto has shown more versatility than Hatton in his career so the thought of Cotto appearing more "one dimensional" than Hatton at Floyd's hands has me questioning your knowledge on the subject. Elaborate. This is the point. Instead of ripping this guy and making a one beat remark about how Cotto has shown more versatilty, actually back it up with something.

I have maintained that Cotto has one of the most well-rounded skill sets of any young fighter I have seen in quite awhile. I was saying this before 95% of you were here. Back when the only other cat talking about Cotto like this was Borikua. Cotto is very skilled and can do anything he needs to do to win. Box, brawl, and any combination of the two. Watching him 4/5/6 years ago was great because he was a younger fighter who just tore through some very capable opponents. He showed supreme skill, tenacity and a cold, deliberate killer instinct. You think the hype is bad now, you should have seen a few of us after he blew Vic Sosa out of the water. Fuck, I was thinking he would be unstoppable. He hasn't been stopped to date obviously, but as he steps up and up his flaws are realized. So to sum up, I think Cotto will KO Margarito with the first punch he throws. G'day.

'Cotto the boxer' is definitely a new opinion. I've watched it appear on these boards over say the last year. Cotto has appeared to be improving, but his fans now talk of him as a 'do everything' boxer with excellent speed, power, technique and aggression. The reality is that Cotto is a good pressure fighter who has added a little patience and tactical astuteness to his game. We sometimes tend to forget that all elite level boxers tend to have good baseline boxing skills underpinning whatever their own particular strength is, and we shouldn't get carried away when they demonstrate them. I think this 'Cotto is complete' idea actually has little to do with Cotto himself and much more to do with his status as Mayweather's number 1 challenger. We have started looking at Cotto and asking ourselves not "what does he do?" but "how does he match up to Mayweather?" and it leads us to seize upon small areas of his game and blow them up into key features, because if he didn't have them, then how could he beat Floyd? I'm pretty sure that when Cotto does finally get into the ring he will be made to look quite one-dimensional, maybe even more than Hatton did. I predict a fairly easy decision for Floyd, with Floyd not having to extend himself a great deal, which say what you like, he did against Hatton. It will look like the Oscar v Floyd fight, but won't be as close. I remember many posters here, myself included, talking hatton up as 'complete' in the same way Cotto is being talked up now. I don't think we should make the same mistakes again. Cotto has shown more versatility than Hatton in his career so the thought of Cotto appearing more "one dimensional" than Hatton at Floyd's hands has me questioning your knowledge on the subject.