Who is a better HW than Muhammad Ali?

Frazier was definitely not shot after the Foreman fight, past his best perhaps but not shot. He demolished Jerry Quarry in 1974 like no one else ever did and beat Joe Bugner. No one can say that Frazier's performance in the third Ali fight was the performance of a shot fighter. Frazier was shot as a fighter after the Ali trilogy and Ali greatly diminished as a fighter as well. About Jim Jeffries, he is often underrated because of the Jack Johnson fight which is unfortunately the only Jeffries fight we have clear footage of. It is true that most of the people in his time rated Jeffries as the best HW of all but it is also true that Jeffries himself admitted Jack Johnson to be the better man, also Nat Fleischer who saw them both rated Jack Johnson as better. It should also be acknowledged that many of Jeffries' opponents were outweighed by up to 20-40 lbs by the 220 lb Jeffries. People give Ali a lot of flack for getting dropped by the 185 lb Henry Cooper but Jim Jeffries in his younger days went to a draw with the 165 lb Joe Choynski... Excellent point! also other fighters like Joe Louis struggled with small fighters like Billy Conn, but there's nothing wrong with that, because fighters of that calibre are not your average small fighters. About that Ali-Cooper fight. Yes Ali was dropped and people are quick to jump in and criticise. but so what it's not like Cooper is a small guy, there was a 20 pound advantage for Ali. But cooper had one of the best left hooks in the business. since that fight Ali matured more and fought far better monstrous punchers in shavers and foreman without getting dropped.

ali in his prime is the best representation of what a heavyweight should be. in his prime, he was the best

Joe was shot after the Foreman fight, so the later fights with Ali should carry little weight. Frazier was definitely not shot after the Foreman fight, past his best perhaps but not shot. He demolished Jerry Quarry in 1974 like no one else ever did and beat Joe Bugner. No one can say that Frazier's performance in the third Ali fight was the performance of a shot fighter. Frazier was shot as a fighter after the Ali trilogy and Ali greatly diminished as a fighter as well. About Jim Jeffries, he is often underrated because of the Jack Johnson fight which is unfortunately the only Jeffries fight we have clear footage of. It is true that most of the people in his time rated Jeffries as the best HW of all but it is also true that Jeffries himself admitted Jack Johnson to be the better man, also Nat Fleischer who saw them both rated Jack Johnson as better. It should also be acknowledged that many of Jeffries' opponents were outweighed by up to 20-40 lbs by the 220 lb Jeffries. People give Ali a lot of flack for getting dropped by the 185 lb Henry Cooper but Jim Jeffries in his younger days went to a draw with the 165 lb Joe Choynski...

My assessment is not based on old grainy videos. Why do you think Ali is better than Joe Frazier, who defeated him in his prime (age 29)? Ali had 2 warmup fights just before, so ring rust is not a good excuse. Joe was shot after the Foreman fight, so the later fights with Ali should carry little weight. So your assessment is only of Muhammad Ali as an inferior fighter, while not taking into account that you haven't really seen Jeffries fight sufficient enough to accurately gauge his abilities. Ahh, touch.'

Vitali would get picked apart by Ali, Wlad I think stands a chance. I dont think anyones career was greater than Alis but lots of fighters had the capabilities to beat him.

For his time ali was great, no doubt. Boxing is notoriously hard to compare through the generations but if u look at performances of 100m, weightlifting etc from ali's erea and now there is a BIG difference. Will be interesting to see a guy like haye aganst klitchko if it happens, not saying haye is as good as ali but there both about 6'3, fast and talk even faster :banana: for all the stick vitali is getting would like to see ali try his rope a dope style against vitali.....

I would pick Lewis over Ali...

I believe that Ali's prime was the period he was forced into being inactive. Normally 29 would have been his prime, but he was still trying to shake off the rust from an almost four year layoff. So IMO, the closest thing to his true prime was in 1967. That one fight with Cleveland Williams, he did seem untouchable and unbeatable that night. Poetry in motion.

That video has Gus Ruhlin and Tom Sharkey fights with Jeffries, which took place between 1897-99. The existing footage was too grainy for you to even recognize who was who, let along make an assessment as to Jeffries being a superior fighter to anyone. Jeffries had 8 wins against HOFers and was undefeated till he came back to fight Jack Johson, 6 years without so much as a tuneup fight, and he still went 15 rounds. Johnson himself said Jeffries was the greatest HW champ ever.

When was his prime? Ali was 29 when Frazier beat him, 31 when Norton beat him, 21 when Cooper almost knocked him out. Ali was great, but anyone is beatable. I'd say in 1966 and 1967. You can't discredit Frazier's or Norton's wins because Ali was certainly a hell of a fighter when they fought him but I'd say Ali was at his best before the long layoff. No one can say this Ali was badly diminished. Frazier was simply ready to walk through anything to get to Ali. Great fight and Ali's other two wins over Frazier shouldn't be discredited either. Here's Ali against the 6'6 WBA champion Ernie Terrell who was a pretty good fighter IMO. Joe Frazier :)

Joe Louis..

When was his prime? Ali was 29 when Frazier beat him, 31 when Norton beat him, 21 when Cooper almost knocked him out. Ali was great, but anyone is beatable. I believe that Ali's prime was the period he was forced into being inactive. Normally 29 would have been his prime, but he was still trying to shake off the rust from an almost four year layoff. So IMO, the closest thing to his true prime was in 1967.

You're entitled to your own OPINION. Thats true. However, i have to say. Your opinion does seem rather biased at times. Not that i care tbh, i like Wlad.

Nobody was better than Ali The end.

I'm going to post the same response to you that I made in another thread as I find it fitting: "Many this day seem to thing that today's athletes are better due to conditioning etc. In some aspects that is true and it can make a particular fighter better than without that conditioning. What they fail to realize, is that boxing's gene pool is much smaller now than it used to be. Right up into the 80's, Boxing was still a huge sport and the amount of people entering the game was multiple times larger than it is now. To young athletes, boxing is no longer a first choice for them to get into. You have less people entering the sport, thus the potential for finding special fighters is dramatically reduced. When Ali was in his prime, he was the top dog over other heavyweights who themselves, would make today's crop of heavyweights look rather amateurish." You're entitled to your own OPINION.

I never said they WOULD, I said they're CAPABLE....the modern day big, skilled and powerful heavyweights like Wlad, Lewis and Vitali would give Ali a shitload of trouble and have a good chance of beating Ali. I'm going to post the same response to you that I made in another thread as I find it fitting: "Many this day seem to think that today's athletes are better due to conditioning etc. In some aspects that is true and it can make a particular fighter better than without that conditioning. What they fail to realize, is that boxing's gene pool is much smaller now than it used to be. Right up into the 80's, Boxing was still a huge sport and the amount of people entering the game was multiple times larger than it is now. To young athletes, boxing is no longer a first choice for them to get into. You have less people entering the sport, thus the potential for finding special fighters is dramatically reduced. When Ali was in his prime, he was the top dog over other heavyweights who themselves, would make today's crop of heavyweights look rather amateurish."

When was his prime? Ali was 29 when Frazier beat him, 31 when Norton beat him, 21 when Cooper almost knocked him out. Ali was great, but anyone is beatable. He did get robbed from his prime years when they took his liscense. But there is guys who is capable of beating him. Such as Lewis

I never said they WOULD, I said they're CAPABLE....the modern day big, skilled and powerful heavyweights like Wlad, Lewis and Vitali would give Ali a shitload of trouble and have a good chance of beating Ali. Then i apologize. I thought you were saying that they would beat Ali without a doubt. :)

No, maybe trouble him. But i highly doubt they would beat him.... I never said they WOULD, I said they're CAPABLE....the modern day big, skilled and powerful heavyweights like Wlad, Lewis and Vitali would give Ali a shitload of trouble and have a good chance of beating Ali.

I meant prime 1899 Jeffries, not the Jeffries in the video. I just edited my post to clarify that... That video has Gus Ruhlin and Tom Sharkey fights with Jeffries, which took place between 1897-99. The existing footage was too grainy for you to even recognize who was who, let along make an assessment as to Jeffries being a superior fighter to anyone.