Who Can Beat Miguel Cotto?

Ty Fields!!!!!

I voted only floyd-margo-oscar......but maybe all of the guys in the list will be able to beat cotto after gomez devastates miguelito... so i read that there will be a new video like this each week...cool if they're all gonna be this good...

I voted only floyd-margo-oscar......but maybe all of the guys in the list will be able to beat cotto after gomez devastates miguelito...

I think there's a huge difference between being "stunned" and being "hurt" Cotto took some uppercuts that stunned him in the early rounds. Zab was "hurt"...and hurt bad to the point where he had to take a knee. and the innevitable.. Yeah, apparently.. Commentators say a fighter was "hurt" when internet Boxing fans of a particular fighter would prefer to say that their guy was at the very best "stunned." It's a goddamn discrepency is what it is.. Anyways, by the usual definition, within the context of this argument, Cotto was hurt something TERRIBLE in those early rounds. You're trippin. :wave:

I brought those other guys into the picture to break this down in a divisional respect. Simply to show that virtually each elite guy in a sample division can and HAS been hurt or stunned at some point in their career, if not knocked out. If we're examining the "pound for pound" list, you will still find names there who have been vulnerable to being hit and hurt. Israel Vazquez, Rafael Marquez, Juan Manuel Marquez, Manny Pacquiao, and yes, Kelly Pavlik (seems to be down around the bottom of that 10 for many). I could argue that Cotto has the one punch power to completely turn a fight. He and Pavlik are actually quite similar in that they generally wear their opponents down with consistent, hard punching. They finish them after a lot of damage has already been dealt. Pavlik can certainly land the big right hand which puts his opponent on the canvas if the moment strikes, but Cotto can land a crushing body shot which has the same effect. Neither of them are quite like Haye and Wladimir obviously. Those guys can punch on a different level. Yeah, they are getting hit by bigger guys, but with respect to their division, they are vulnerable to being starched just like Cotto is. I will point to three times in the past 3-4 years where Cotto was in trouble or significantly stunned by punches. Corley, Torres and Judah. All things being equal, I have seen several ELITE guys hurt or stunned the same number of times or more. This is just me being a prick and getting technical. Hatton - Mayweather, Collazo, Urango (body) Klitschko - Peter, Williamson (KD), Brewster Vazquez - Marquez & Gonzalez Juan Manuel Marquez - Pacquiao & Barrera Pavlik - Taylor, Zuniga (KD), Zertuche Even a guy like Pacquiao (who was stopped earlier in his career mind you) has been hurt or stunned fairly recently (Morales/Larios). Hatton was top 10 p4p before being smoked by Floyd. Not to completely fuck off this topic, but I think the bigger issue is how the fighter adapts to the situation, how they deal with being hurt. We all know that Cotto is one of the best there is at recuperating. He has the innate ability to survive in a fight. Going on what we know, I think this makes a stronger case for Cotto succeeding in his future bouts, as opposed to him losing because he can be hurt. The vulnerable guy who knows how to triumph in the face of danger is scarier than the tough guy who doesn't know what to do the first time somebody hurts him. Damn good stuff, OG. What can I say.. It's water tight. This debate goes waaay back with us and I haven't seen any holes in your game yet. You're a monster :firedevil The force is strong with you, Skywalker..

: Hydration is a significant factor when it comes to punch-resistance. Anyone who's ever boxed when dehydrated will testify to this. If you are dehydrated, punches will feel like bricks to your head. You will feel a strong discomfort following every sudden motion of your head, not only punches but also twists and turns, jumps and side to side movements. Your vision will take longer to settle, your focus will be off and you will lose your ability to think sharp. Training will also have a great factor in your chin. During hard and intensive training, you force the body to adapt to physical strain. That part is easy. The hard part is getting yourself to train so hard that you strengthen the mind as well. This part can only be trained when you think you are done, but you still continue. And this is why some people get better when they face good opposition; they "get up" and get motivated enough to train as hard as they can, thus coming into the fights in tip top shape. Mentally and physically. This can also explain how some people can take punches from the best, but get knocked out by the lesser... WOW!!!!! We need need more fact-posts like this on the site. Excellent stuff. Well maybe uniting the 4 ww belts would defuse alot of our debating. According to Fightnews.com Cintron intends to unite the 4 belts. Cotto's next on Cintron's hit-list: http://www.fightnews.com/fightnews_2/headlines//EEAlVuAVuZmuepTKLp.html If Cintron gets past Marg, maybe he should start with an easier bout against Quintana, eh?

Whoa, whoa, whoa.. Judah didn't seriously hurt him?? Can we start there? I think there's a huge difference between being "stunned" and being "hurt" Cotto took some uppercuts that stunned him in the early rounds. Zab was "hurt"...and hurt bad to the point where he had to take a knee. and the innevitable..

This is why you're among the very best worldwide who debates the sport of Boxing online, OG.. ^^ I like Klitchsko and Haye as examples.. Two missle strikes to my command center. :killyou: :killyou: The only major difference between Cotto and the key guys here that you mention is that they have the kind of one punch power to bail themselves out of disaster, and Cotto does not. This is going to be more than just theory at some point.. Believe me. :skull: Cotto does fight like a savage though when he gets dinged, and it was clearly evident against Mosley. Shane was backing off from the damage he was causing because he couldn't live with Cotto's damage-controlled return assault. Cotto hits hard when he's buzzin. Of course you know that Klitchsko and Haye have already been knocked out (And let's forgive them for that.. They're getting hit by heavyweights!), and Pavlik has a steel chin rep despite having gone down.. Again, I want to take us back to my original point; yes Cotto can be hurt. You pretty much called it a no brainer.. I don't see Klitchsko, Haye, or Pavlik on the P4P list. And let's be honest here, NOBODY has been wobbled more times than Miguel Cotto the last several years. Nobody. I was making the claim that things are unbalanced. Cotto is the highest ranked - and even out of the guys you gave me; THE most easily hurt. STILL. It's a bad formula, period.. He gets special consideration. Not the other way around. I brought those other guys into the picture to break this down in a divisional respect. Simply to show that virtually each elite guy in a sample division can and HAS been hurt or stunned at some point in their career, if not knocked out. If we're examining the "pound for pound" list, you will still find names there who have been vulnerable to being hit and hurt. Israel Vazquez, Rafael Marquez, Juan Manuel Marquez, Manny Pacquiao, and yes, Kelly Pavlik (seems to be down around the bottom of that 10 for many). I could argue that Cotto has the one punch power to completely turn a fight. He and Pavlik are actually quite similar in that they generally wear their opponents down with consistent, hard punching. They finish them after a lot of damage has already been dealt. Pavlik can certainly land the big right hand which puts his opponent on the canvas if the moment strikes, but Cotto can land a crushing body shot which has the same effect. Neither of them are quite like Haye and Wladimir obviously. Those guys can punch on a different level. Yeah, they are getting hit by bigger guys, but with respect to their division, they are vulnerable to being starched just like Cotto is. I will point to three times in the past 3-4 years where Cotto was in trouble or significantly stunned by punches. Corley, Torres and Judah. All things being equal, I have seen several ELITE guys hurt or stunned the same number of times or more. This is just me being a prick and getting technical. Hatton - Mayweather, Collazo, Urango (body) Klitschko - Peter, Williamson (KD), Brewster Vazquez - Marquez & Gonzalez Juan Manuel Marquez - Pacquiao & Barrera Pavlik - Taylor, Zuniga (KD), Zertuche Even a guy like Pacquiao (who was stopped earlier in his career mind you) has been hurt or stunned fairly recently (Morales/Larios). Hatton was top 10 p4p before being smoked by Floyd. Not to completely fuck off this topic, but I think the bigger issue is how the fighter adapts to the situation, how they deal with being hurt. We all know that Cotto is one of the best there is at recuperating. He has the innate ability to survive in a fight. Going on what we know, I think this makes a stronger case for Cotto succeeding in his future bouts, as opposed to him losing because he can be hurt. The vulnerable guy who knows how to triumph in the face of danger is scarier than the tough guy who doesn't know what to do the first time somebody hurts him.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.. Judah didn't seriously hurt him?? Can we start there? Judah hurts people. He just seems to get some self destructive pity afterwards...

All the people who say Cotto's chin is suspect simply just hate on Cotto. Since he's been at WW he hasn't been seriously hurt. He's a boxer, of course he's gonna get hit with shots against guys who can throw. Shane Mosley is regarded as one of the harder hitting WW in the last few years and he took some hard hooks and returned with straight rights and hooks of his own. And De La Hoya would get demolished...I'm sorry. Oscar's stamina has been suspect the last few years. He'd get KO'd in 8 or 9 rounds if he tried sluggin with Cotto (which he prob would do). I don't know if Oscar would be stopped. Bruised up a bit maybe. Can Cotto land the B-hop body punch on him? I'm sure a body shot from Cotto could hurt him, but Oscar is an old dog, the fight might play out differently than the Mosley fight, yet have a similar outcome. UD 12 Cotto Just my .02

All the people who say Cotto's chin is suspect simply just hate on Cotto. Since he's been at WW he hasn't been seriously hurt. He's a boxer, of course he's gonna get hit with shots against guys who can throw. Shane Mosley is regarded as one of the harder hitting WW in the last few years and he took some hard hooks and returned with straight rights and hooks of his own. And De La Hoya would get demolished...I'm sorry. Oscar's stamina has been suspect the last few years. He'd get KO'd in 8 or 9 rounds if he tried sluggin with Cotto (which he prob would do). Whoa, whoa, whoa.. Judah didn't seriously hurt him?? Can we start there?

All the people who say Cotto's chin is suspect simply just hate on Cotto. Since he's been at WW he hasn't been seriously hurt. He's a boxer, of course he's gonna get hit with shots against guys who can throw. Shane Mosley is regarded as one of the harder hitting WW in the last few years and he took some hard hooks and returned with straight rights and hooks of his own. And De La Hoya would get demolished...I'm sorry. Oscar's stamina has been suspect the last few years. He'd get KO'd in 8 or 9 rounds if he tried sluggin with Cotto (which he prob would do).

I think the 1st few rounds it would be a close fight, but Marg seems to have trouble with the jabs as shown against Pitty Pat Paul Williams. Marg will wanna trade but I think he'll get the worse end of it. Let's see how he does against Cintron. I'd much rather see Cotto vs margarito instead of Cotto vs Mayorga (which has been looming around as of late) I can see what you're saying.. Of couse Margarito was having trouble with jabs that were coming from 4 inches above, and not 6 inches below. Williams volume punching was also a factor.. I agree the Cintron fight will tell us alot. :fing02:

lol cotto seriously so over-hyped its laughable. floyd is gonna serve him up. odlh would stop cotto definately, cotto and his fragile chin + odlh left hook = good bye cotto. once cotto loses hes gonna be a bum. mark my words For a guy who is as vulnerable in the defense department and the (apparent) chin department I would have to say so.. I can't think of too many other guys in the top 5 or 10 of their divisions that are as seemingly vulnerable as Cotto, and yet so universally considered "unstoppable." Was Darchinyan considered chinny? Because "Boxing" can happen to anyone.. Especially guys who have shaky defense, and shaky chins.. :wave: REMINDER: ^^ The examples of Pavlik, Haye, and Klitshcko would seem to hold for, OG.. But when you get in there it can be argued a bit ("P4P" and other supporting foundational backing further my side..)

I don't think anyone thinks Judah could win a rematch if he was only throwing 2 punches a round the way he was in the first fight.. 3 or more and he would have a pretty good fukin chance. And you think Cotto would "crush" Margarito? :ugh: Does Margarito seem "crushable" to you? I think the 1st few rounds it would be a close fight, but Marg seems to have trouble with the jabs as shown against Pitty Pat Paul Williams. Marg will wanna trade but I think he'll get the worse end of it. Let's see how he does against Cintron. I'd much rather see Cotto vs margarito instead of Cotto vs Mayorga (which has been looming around as of late)

I've jumped off the edge as well screaming at Cotto to block or you're gonna get KTFO. I get worried at times, but he pulls through. Much like Tito used to. At least Cotto has better defense than Tito. Tito won fights through sheer ferocity alone, because his defense was junk. Loved the guy. Should have never jumped up to MW to look for challenges. I never understood then why B-hop completely destroyed him, my understanding was casual at most. Believe me, I envy the excitement you must have riding with Cotto through these battles. I cannot imagine the thrill of being on the razors edge with his occasional shakiness, and seeing him pull through victorious. Good post. :fing02: You took me on a ride there. Respect.

Look at younger, elite fighters in any respective division and you're telling me there is a guy who cannot be had by a given punch? Vulnerable to damage? Cotto has been hurt twice at JWW and he was rocked by Zabdiel. -Pavlik has been hurt and buzzed on a few occasions -Calderon was badly hurt by Cazares -Klitschko...well... -David Haye blew his wad and was stopped by the cat -Ricky Hatton is a clear example And on down the line. Every elite fighter is vulnerable to damage. Cotto is fighting at a high level, against very good competition, and he finds a way to get it done regardless of his defensive aptitude and past punch resistance issues. You are focusing on the damage he has taken poorly while completely disregarding a lot of the hard shots he has taken well. Shots to the chin haven't exactly been his issue. This is why you're among the very best worldwide who debates the sport of Boxing online, OG.. ^^ I like Klitchsko and Haye as examples.. Two missle strikes to my command center. :killyou: :killyou: The only major difference between Cotto and the key guys here that you mention is that they have the kind of one punch power to bail themselves out of disaster, and Cotto does not. This is going to be more than just theory at some point.. Believe me. :skull: Cotto does fight like a savage though when he gets dinged, and it was clearly evident against Mosley. Shane was backing off from the damage he was causing because he couldn't live with Cotto's damage-controlled return assault. Cotto hits hard when he's buzzin. Of course you know that Klitchsko and Haye have already been knocked out (And let's forgive them for that.. They're getting hit by heavyweights!), and Pavlik has a steel chin rep despite having gone down.. Again, I want to take us back to my original point; yes Cotto can be hurt. You pretty much called it a no brainer.. I don't see Klitchsko, Haye, or Pavlik on the P4P list. And let's be honest here, NOBODY has been wobbled more times than Miguel Cotto the last several years. Nobody. I was making the claim that things are unbalanced. Cotto is the highest ranked - and even out of the guys you gave me; THE most easily hurt. STILL. It's a bad formula, period.. He gets special consideration. Not the other way around.

True, there's no denying that. Believe me, I was watching for it on the edge of my seat the last few fights. When Mosley busted Miguel with a chopping right in the 3rd round and clearly stunned him only to jump back out again and let Cotto recover, I started to wonder if Miguel isn't saying something to them in there or using some kind of witchcraft.. :lol1: I've jumped off the edge as well screaming at Cotto to block or you're gonna get KTFO. I get worried at times, but he pulls through. Much like Tito used to. At least Cotto has better defense than Tito. Tito won fights through sheer ferocity alone, because his defense was junk. Loved the guy. Should have never jumped up to MW to look for challenges. I never understood then why B-hop completely destroyed him, my understanding was casual at most.

Yeah, everyone is vulnerable to being hurt but very few "elite" guys in the game are more vulnerable to damage than Miguel Cotto right about now. That is the point, OG. Bigger deal, bigger issue, bigger problem = not the same thing, and not an everybody else scenario.. The reason this got drawn out again is because the people having this discussion don't have a PHD in Cotto (Player Haters Degree: Addison), or doctorate in your case.. I'm just doing business here.. :fing02: Going in circles is not a problem for me when it's my thread.. He didn't take no flush shots to the tip of his chinny chin chin from Mosley, but you stated your peace.. I get it. Look at younger, elite fighters in any respective division and you're telling me there is a guy who cannot be had by a given punch? Vulnerable to damage? Cotto has been hurt twice at JWW and he was rocked by Zabdiel. -Pavlik has been hurt and buzzed on a few occasions -Calderon was badly hurt by Cazares -Klitschko...well... -David Haye blew his wad and was stopped by the cat -Ricky Hatton is a clear example And on down the line. Every elite fighter is vulnerable to damage. Cotto is fighting at a high level, against very good competition, and he finds a way to get it done regardless of his defensive aptitude and past punch resistance issues. You are focusing on the damage he has taken poorly while completely disregarding a lot of the hard shots he has taken well. Shots to the chin haven't exactly been his issue.

OK Addison, Cotto has been susceptible to punches to the chin in the past and gets hit more than he should sometimes. He is no slickster. This does not change the fact that no one has capitalized on this apparent "weakness" yet. Someone might, but Cotto is a moving target, he is constantly showing polish, both defensively and offensively. True, there's no denying that. Believe me, I was watching for it on the edge of my seat the last few fights. When Mosley busted Miguel with a chopping right in the 3rd round and clearly stunned him only to jump back out again and let Cotto recover, I started to wonder if Miguel isn't saying something to them in there or using some kind of witchcraft.. :lol1: