2 observations on "Undefeated"

i hate you give hbo crew any kind of credit but leddermen called it. he wanted floyd to use his latteral movement and when floyd used it it got him the knockdown. Props to ledderman on calling the need for movement but his scorecard was bad

Hah...sent you a reply. Been a good discussion. yep, merry xmas, OG. its VERY late where I am now. going to bed ciao

If Hatton threw straight shots on the way in, it would have been nice. If anything to protect his big ginger head. Hah...sent you a reply. Been a good discussion.

Yep. Hatton turns into that left and gets plenty of leverage with it, but it was detrimental to his chances of success along the way because he just kept going back to it. Now that may get you some respect or even a knockout with a lesser opponent, but it's just an awful idea against someone like Floyd. I noticed that the right hand to the body was landing, particularly when Hatton would come in with the left and snap the right hand downstairs. My real problem with the Hatton approach was his lack of effective straight punches. Just to forecast a bit, the prospective opponent for Floyd now is Cotto. Something Cotto does well which I feel could work against Floyd is he comes in with a disruptive straight shot, squares his body up, and is then in position to let loose with both hands to the body. Hatton screwed up in this area by coming in with sweeping punches too often, allowing Floyd to favor one side of the body, thus helping his defensive effort. If Hatton threw straight shots on the way in, it would have been nice. If anything to protect his big ginger head.

It's true that Hatton dips but that gives more leverage to his left hook, that's why he could do some of the "nice" things (such as breaking ribs putting people on their asses and so on) he did with that punch throughout his career, there is a tradeoff between sneakiness and power there. He should have been able to adjust when in the ring with Mayweather, but I am not sure that is the biggest problem with Hatton throwing the left, I think that would be the fact that his right hand is nowhere close to where it should be. He was able to hit Mayweather with his left but was more succesful with the right, in particular to the body. If you look closely Hatton probably does not land a single left hook to the body. Mayweather's stance at midrange and his ducking under while getting up close (correct my not so great english if what I just typed makes no sense, but what I mean is Mayweather would slip under and put the left side of his body in front of Hatton) took care of that. Rest of the post you are right, when Hatton stopped mixing punches, he was out of the fight. Yep. Hatton turns into that left and gets plenty of leverage with it, but it was detrimental to his chances of success along the way because he just kept going back to it. Now that may get you some respect or even a knockout with a lesser opponent, but it's just an awful idea against someone like Floyd. I noticed that the right hand to the body was landing, particularly when Hatton would come in with the left and snap the right hand downstairs. My real problem with the Hatton approach was his lack of effective straight punches. Just to forecast a bit, the prospective opponent for Floyd now is Cotto. Something Cotto does well which I feel could work against Floyd is he comes in with a disruptive straight shot, squares his body up, and is then in position to let loose with both hands to the body. Hatton screwed up in this area by coming in with sweeping punches too often, allowing Floyd to favor one side of the body, thus helping his defensive effort.

OG, I see your point. Hatton not leaving himself space. I have to watch it again... DAMN Earlier on I am sure that it was Mayweather doing the holding. But later on he did not need to, you are right. I wanna watch the fight to see if Mayweather was doing anything to discourage that, Mayweather is a really negative fighter, but he is great at that. No matter who is in front of him, he is going to make him do something he does not want to. The thing that bothers me is that either I just dont see it, or it's just the punching.

Hatton didn't help himself out in that capacity either. The spatial relationship between the two was unlike that of Hatton's other bouts. I have become accustomed to seeing Hatton throw, fall in, rough house a bit, step back and almost immediately explode with short punches to the body. Now Floyd's fast, accurate shots inside certainly discouraged him from throwing to the body with the left, but Hatton really didn't leave himself much room to land those shots. Hardly even took the chance down the stretch of the fight. That's what I expected that little space and those sweet angled and leveraged bodyshots, what I did not expect was Mayweather's solution, which puts him so much higher in my eyes: Rough it up and clinch, or stay on the outside and never on the range favoured by Hatton.

There is a serious flaw that I see when Hatton throws the left hook or straight. Hatton is generally in a constant state of motion, but he dips to his left before he throws the left. He did it successfully early in the fight, hitting Mayweather with a bit of a glancing shot when he was off balance. He kept doing it throughout the fight though and I believe Mayweather made the adjustment to that trigger. The sequence and punch that sealed the knockout should be evidence of this. It's true that Hatton dips but that gives more leverage to his left hook, that's why he could do some of the "nice" things (such as breaking ribs putting people on their asses and so on) he did with that punch throughout his career, there is a tradeoff between sneakiness and power there. He should have been able to adjust when in the ring with Mayweather, but I am not sure that is the biggest problem with Hatton throwing the left, I think that would be the fact that his right hand is nowhere close to where it should be. He was able to hit Mayweather with his left but was more succesful with the right, in particular to the body. If you look closely Hatton probably does not land a single left hook to the body. Mayweather's stance at midrange and his ducking under while getting up close (correct my not so great english if what I just typed makes no sense, but what I mean is Mayweather would slip under and put the left side of his body in front of Hatton) took care of that. Rest of the post you are right, when Hatton stopped mixing punches, he was out of the fight.

Nah, Hatton was doing his thing decently, he was trying to do something that always worked for him, but he was in with Mayweather and for a surprise (to me, at least). Earlier on Hatton was trying to get in position earlier on. Punch... Clinch... Wrestle to punch again... Punch. Mayweather used elbows, shoulders, forearms, and his own strength to avoid that (and for something else too). As the fight went on, Hatton first stopped feinting on the way in (I think BEFORE the point deduction), and then he stopped doing his wrestling in any sort of efficient way ( All Hatton could land to the body was the occasional right hand. If anything it's more that Mayweather has a great inside game, better than almost anyone expected. The right hands to the body that Mayweather threw IN the clinch were painful to watch. And while doing so, he NEVER let Hatton take off with his left hook to the body. Hatton didn't help himself out in that capacity either. The spatial relationship between the two was unlike that of Hatton's other bouts. I have become accustomed to seeing Hatton throw, fall in, rough house a bit, step back and almost immediately explode with short punches to the body. Now Floyd's fast, accurate shots inside certainly discouraged him from throwing to the body with the left, but Hatton really didn't leave himself much room to land those shots. Hardly even took the chance down the stretch of the fight.

I disagree with the bold...I feel it goes against what you said previous. Coming into the fight with the mentality of, "I have this new weapon which will win me rounds", is the wrong way to approach the fight. Reminds me of the Pacquiao "Manila Ice" talk going into the first bout with Morales. There is a serious flaw that I see when Hatton throws the left hook or straight. Hatton is generally in a constant state of motion, but he dips to his left before he throws the left. He did it successfully early in the fight, hitting Mayweather with a bit of a glancing shot when he was off balance. He kept doing it throughout the fight though and I believe Mayweather made the adjustment to that trigger. The sequence and punch that sealed the knockout should be evidence of this. It's like Jermain Taylor when he cocks the elbow to throw the jab. Hopkins took his jab away, I'm guessing with the help of that indicator. Hatton failed to mix up his attack as the fight moved on. He ran out of options and went back to the same old sweeping left hook/fall in and clinch routine. Hatton often lost his opportunities to score because he didn't give himself space. Floyd wanted him to do that and he trapped him. A fighter's money punch can be very useful against Floyd as long to the punch isn't used as a security blanket. A fighter who can beat Floyd is a fighter who makes adjustments with Floyd, who understands that a variety of punches up and down are necessary, who knows when to apply pressure and when to feint and give angles. The guy has to understand that he's going to take some major abuse too. yessir BEST POST OF THE THREAD RIGHT HERE....!!!:boxing:

Teca, Did you really have much respect for it before? I watched Collazo pretty much neutralize Hatton's inside game. And Louise isn't even that type of fighter. That is one of the reasons I was so confident. Hatton was being tied up and tired out and wasn't landing anything crisp inside. I know that some people (i.e. Hatton stans) say that Collazo is some huge welter. He really isn't. He did have a couple of bouts at 154. But hell, Spinks just fought at 160. Louise is an average-sized welter with below-average power. Collazo weighed under 147 for very few of his fights, possibly only the title fights. And (courtesy of boxrec) At 19 he was already weighing at 150 or over 47 anyways. That is not an "average" welter, unless by average you mean Williams, Margarito or Tommy Hearns, and sure enough is quite bigger than Hatton, unlike Mayweather who weighed less than Mayweather on fight night. In the first rounds of the Collazo fight it was already clear there was something wrong with Hatton, In the first rounds of the Mayweather fight, the only thing that was clear is that Mayweather's vaunted bag of tricks is actually fuckin' deep as he claimed.

Agreed with you. Orthodox fighters have a habit of slightly favoring their right side when they are pressing, but Hatton is the opposite. He telegraphs the left body work and is left heavy. And Hatton wasn't even trying to turn Mayweather either. No switching the angle when he smothered. Just trying to smother and land some clubbing shots. I lost a lot of respect for Hatton's inside game. Nah, Hatton was doing his thing decently, he was trying to do something that always worked for him, but he was in with Mayweather and for a surprise (to me, at least). Earlier on Hatton was trying to get in position earlier on. Punch... Clinch... Wrestle to punch again... Punch. Mayweather used elbows, shoulders, forearms, and his own strength to avoid that (and for something else too). As the fight went on, Hatton first stopped feinting on the way in (I think BEFORE the point deduction), and then he stopped doing his wrestling in any sort of efficient way ( All Hatton could land to the body was the occasional right hand. If anything it's more that Mayweather has a great inside game, better than almost anyone expected. The right hands to the body that Mayweather threw IN the clinch were painful to watch. And while doing so, he NEVER let Hatton take off with his left hook to the body.

I disagree with the bold...I feel it goes against what you said previous. Coming into the fight with the mentality of, "I have this new weapon which will win me rounds", is the wrong way to approach the fight. Reminds me of the Pacquiao "Manila Ice" talk going into the first bout with Morales. There is a serious flaw that I see when Hatton throws the left hook or straight. Hatton is generally in a constant state of motion, but he dips to his left before he throws the left. He did it successfully early in the fight, hitting Mayweather with a bit of a glancing shot when he was off balance. He kept doing it throughout the fight though and I believe Mayweather made the adjustment to that trigger. The sequence and punch that sealed the knockout should be evidence of this. It's like Jermain Taylor when he cocks the elbow to throw the jab. Hopkins took his jab away, I'm guessing with the help of that indicator. Hatton failed to mix up his attack as the fight moved on. He ran out of options and went back to the same old sweeping left hook/fall in and clinch routine. Hatton often lost his opportunities to score because he didn't give himself space. Floyd wanted him to do that and he trapped him. A fighter's money punch can be very useful against Floyd as long to the punch isn't used as a security blanket. A fighter who can beat Floyd is a fighter who makes adjustments with Floyd, who understands that a variety of punches up and down are necessary, who knows when to apply pressure and when to feint and give angles. The guy has to understand that he's going to take some major abuse too. yessir Well said.

in conclusion .. " to beat floyd u gon need 4 arms and 2 heads"

To beat Floyd, you need to do it in the gym by developing a totally unexpected gameplan or by bringing in a different weapon that will allow you to steal a few rounds. In the 22 rounds with two of the game's best left hookers, Floyd ate a total of zero significant left hooks. You won't beat Floyd with your primary weapon. He will take that away from you. I disagree with the bold...I feel it goes against what you said previous. Coming into the fight with the mentality of, "I have this new weapon which will win me rounds", is the wrong way to approach the fight. Reminds me of the Pacquiao "Manila Ice" talk going into the first bout with Morales. There is a serious flaw that I see when Hatton throws the left hook or straight. Hatton is generally in a constant state of motion, but he dips to his left before he throws the left. He did it successfully early in the fight, hitting Mayweather with a bit of a glancing shot when he was off balance. He kept doing it throughout the fight though and I believe Mayweather made the adjustment to that trigger. The sequence and punch that sealed the knockout should be evidence of this. It's like Jermain Taylor when he cocks the elbow to throw the jab. Hopkins took his jab away, I'm guessing with the help of that indicator. Hatton failed to mix up his attack as the fight moved on. He ran out of options and went back to the same old sweeping left hook/fall in and clinch routine. Hatton often lost his opportunities to score because he didn't give himself space. Floyd wanted him to do that and he trapped him. A fighter's money punch can be very useful against Floyd as long to the punch isn't used as a security blanket. A fighter who can beat Floyd is a fighter who makes adjustments with Floyd, who understands that a variety of punches up and down are necessary, who knows when to apply pressure and when to feint and give angles. The guy has to understand that he's going to take some major abuse too. To beat Floyd, you need to do it in the gym by developing a totally unexpected gameplan. yessir

I agree with most of your observations. Additionally, I have some of my own 1) To beat Floyd, you need to do it in the gym by developing a totally unexpected gameplan or by bringing in a different weapon that will allow you to steal a few rounds. In the 22 rounds with two of the game's best left hookers, Floyd ate a total of zero significant left hooks. You won't beat Floyd with your primary weapon. He will take that away from you. True, ZERO is ridiculous, but true. 2) Hatton doesn't like it to the body. I know, "nobody does". But he started to noticeably guard against the body shots, and that opened up his face. Well, it's not just that nobody does, but Floyd hit him with some sick shit. In one of the late rounds you could see Ricky's take a couple of those shots and see his body being rocked big time, almost lifted by those punches. It did not like watchign Floyd 3) Hatton has a bad guard, and needs to seriously work on his defense. If you notice, he holds the gloves near his chin (Tyson-style) and the punches Floyd was landing were bouncing off Hatton's forehead and snapping his head back. Agreed, that was really bad. his guard ws bad from the get go. He did some excellent ducking under Floyd right hands early on (dont get to see that very often), but he was mostly open for the left hook. 4) Floyd is vulnerable early in fights. I remember him tripping early in the Judah fight and nearly falling, and he did it again vs Hatton. It's like he takes 2 or 3 rounds to adjust to the guy's speed/pace and fight style. I first noticed this against Manfredy. Angel was able to do some good work. But then Floyd adjusted. Floyd would be an amazing fighter if he dedicated himself to breaking down film and became a student of the modern fighters. ... I dont know... do you think Floyd does not watch tapes? I dont quite buy that, I think it's more like watching the tape is one thing but there is no "on board camera", so yeah you can plan your work in theory but you have make soem adjustments to work your plan in the ring, especially when you fight in many ways like Mayweather does 5) Hatton is a very inaccurate puncher. He has gotten by this far on a high activity rate. I think that training on that hugely wide bag has eroded his skills. Nope, no one is accurate on Mayweather. But Hatton is not an inaccute puncher. Actually he landed a couple of combos on Floyd, when was the last time you have seen that? 6) Graham gave no useful tactical advice and was badly outcoached. The fight REALLY swung when Roger told Floyd to stop moving away from RH ("You ain't got to move away from him... you hurtin' him inside"). There was no similar analog from Graham. I watched the fight several times, and I can't remember any useful guidance. Graham just offered encouragement. well, he also told him to keep cool, which was needed. it's easier to give advice when your guy is taking over. I mean the advice you quoted, I could have given, and I actually thought aobut it. Floyd was fighting impeccable in teh clinches too, why move away? 7) I knew and predicted that Hatton would tire. The people who think that Hatton is a tireless machine have not watched his fights. And in this fight, he didn't even throw that many punches. It was the punches, those sick body shots and those left hooks and right leads to the head 8) There is a method to the madness of Floyd's irritating bragging and insults. These very mature and experienced fighters allow him to get into their heads. Oscar admitted that in the weeks before (and after) the fight, he was very angry. And hatton was VERY uncharacteristic with his words and actions. A throat-slashing gesture from Ricky? Really? Even the mature and experienced Judah :kiss: is saying that if he fought Floyd again, he would do it on "skill and not emotion". There's an interview at Boxing t a l k. it makes sense, I always thought the reason was more of a money thing.

fight was ass HBO should be shut down for making people believe hatton even stood a chance :banana:

Because some people find it hard to separate their emotions from their logic. That is why I say that many posters are like women. That is what females do. lmao and who is the one thats been banned? homie, you are in EVERY thread defending his name. A guy YOU DONT EVEN KNOW. If that doesnt scream "GROUPIE", i dont know what does. Remember, women are more prone to being groupies than men. http://www.americanidol.com/news/i/photos/cryinggirl1.jpg

i said Floyd would UD or TKO Hatton late, based on the fact that HATTON well, isnt as good as any of the top welters whom FMJ refuses to fight. :cop: You suck as a poster and are a horrible addition to this website. Did I say that already? :)

1. The fight was a damp squid after the way the fight had been hyped up before hand. 2. Mayweather outclassed him for pretty much the whole of the fight. 3. Hatton made himself look like a bit of an idiot in the post fight interviews where as PBF came out of the fight smelling of roses. The End