Quality of Competition!

I am a firm believer in the concept that the Quality of opposition is directly proportional to the quality of greatness used to define the fighter in question. It simple really. As an example I'll use some former as well as current fighters as examples to prove the point. Ali- Beat Liston, Frazier, Norton,Patterson,Foreman,Foster,Spinks,shavers! There is no way to dispute Ali's greatness. It was earned against many other greats! Hagler- Antuofermo,Hamsho,Sibson,Scypion,Duran, Roldan,Hearns, Mugabi, Leonard. Again- his greatness cannot be argued. A warrior, an Icon, a man that defined greatness. Hearns-Cuevas,Leonard,Benitez,Duran, Hagler,Roldan,Barkley,Kinchin,Hill, Who doesn't know who " the Hitman " is? Again, no question. The current crop: Jones- Hopkins, Toney,Paz,Mcallum,Hill,Tarver, Johnson! Thats it folks. Hopkins and Toney were good wins, Mcallum and hill decent, Tarver and Johnson devastating losses. Again, Compared to those above it's hard to solidify Roy's place in History as an ATG. If Jones can come back from the Ko's and make good he has a shot at lower levels of status, but thats not realistic at this point! Hopkins- Jones,Johnson, Brown,Trinidad,Taylor,DLH, and Wright. Not bad. Not ATG, but not bad. Compare Hagler's resume against Hof comp to Hopkins for perspective! A solid HOF and a win vs Calzaghe will get him to ATG consideration! Those are the only two realistic choices for consideration when discussing this era's ATG candidates. Neither cuts the mustard IMHO, but Hopkins does have a shot! Now, to the point of this post. If you are a Floyd Nutlicker, you already seen this coming. You knew it was about him from the thread title, because you know deep down this ATG talk is pure bullshit and most of you are defensive to the point of idiocy. Floyd Mayweather-Hernandez,Corrales,Chavez(questioable),Castillo,DLH. Thats it folks. Those are the only names that will go down in history as HOF fighters. Everyone else on Floyd's list is average at best. Talk all you want, but the fact remains that none of the others have or had HOF careers. The first four are at 130-135. Five years later he has managed to face one, count em, one HOF fighter. Explain this? You see, the onus is on the people that claim ATG status to make a case for it. So make the fukin case! As the title says, Quality of competition is everything when considering a fighters greatness, and anyone that takes the time to look at the facts finds the truth to be very simple! Floyd Mayweather Jr. is nowhere near even this era's prospects for ATG status! To Dios, Skills, Isis, and the rest of the nutlickers that haven't earned the distinction of those listed above, please try to be realistic in your ramblings as they define you!!!

Comments (17)

That's your opinion not fact. Hopkins wouldn't be dumb enough to slug it out with Hagler. Styles make fights. Leonard beat Duran mentally in their second fight. Anything can happen. Don't say it wouldn't be competitive at all. so it is your opinion that Hopkins could handle a prime Hagler? Or Mayweather could Handle a prime Duran? ok. First. Hagler wasn't a slugger. He was a pressure boxer/puncher. He cut off the ring and kept constant pressure on his opponent- Hopkins likes to fight in spurts and hagler would force him to fight every second of every round. I can say without any reserve that hagler would destroy hopkins! Duran was more the slugger, but he could box effectively when he had to. That said, we will assume Floyd will be in full potshot mode. Floyds only hope is the distance, thats obvious. You think Duran won't know that? He comes hard all night long. Power in both hands and rough as they come. Duran would wear Floyds ass out within 10 only because of floyds stamina and running speed would he last that long. No fuckin way Hopkins or Mayweather wins those fights. No chance for a KO for either man, they are both left with only dec victories possible. Both Hagler and Duran were prolific KO punchers. Power in both hands, great stamina and chins from hell, Gimme a break man!

18y ago

No, not Gods, but they WERE proven, and their skills ARE legendary. What could a Hopkins bring to hagler that he didn'ts see in all the greats he faced? What could Mayweather bring to Duran, or Pryor, that they hadn't already beaten? Those are valid questions, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the true greats are that because they were a cut above! It is an insult to say somone who is relatively untested in terms of greatness would beat one who is completly tested in greatness! That's your opinion not fact. Hopkins wouldn't be dumb enough to slug it out with Hagler. Styles make fights. Leonard beat Duran mentally in their second fight. Anything can happen. Don't say it wouldn't be competitive at all.

18y ago

Easton_Assassin

Everytime I hear someone quickly say that a great fighter of today could not even COMPETE with a past great...I just think ignorance... whether or not he would win or not is always debatable...but I don't see how anyone could blatently say that Hopkins could NEVER compete with Hagler, or Floyd could NEVER compete with Duran, or Tito could NEVER compete with Hearns, etc... that is just plain ignorance or hating in my opinion...past greats weren't unbeatable Gods... No, not Gods, but they WERE proven, and their skills ARE legendary. What could a Hopkins bring to hagler that he didn'ts see in all the greats he faced? What could Mayweather bring to Duran, or Pryor, that they hadn't already beaten? Those are valid questions, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the true greats are that because they were a cut above! It is an insult to say somone who is relatively untested in terms of greatness would beat one who is completly tested in greatness!

18y ago

Jim_Jeffries

Could Floyd compete with Hearns , Leonard & Duran? I would have to see Floyd fight and beat Paul Williams before I could give him ANY chance of competing with Hearns. (And Williams is no where near Hearns' league............YET)

18y ago

TyrantT316

18y ago

Floyd could compete with Leonard and Duran but I think Hagler and Hearns would be too much. Floyd is not a natural 147 pounder.

18y ago

Easton_Assassin

Could Floyd compete with Hearns , Leonard & Duran? Thats a definate no, we should ask how he would have fared against Pryor, Arguello, Chavez, and others of a smaller scale. Floyd aint got the pop to keep any of the greats at 147 or above off him!

18y ago

TyrantT316

you have to consider the fact that the past greats have careers that are done and now those guys are HOFers... when speaking of today's fighter...Hopkins for instance....Tito, DLH, Wright, Tarver, Jones, Johnson are all still with active careers...when it is all said and done...Tito, DLH, Wright and Jones are going to be HOFers...Tarver probably not...Johnson maybe not, depending on how he finishes his career... same with Floyd...Castillo, Hernandez are probably going to make HOF. DLH is definitely going to make HOF. Hatton and Cotto have the tools to make HOF and would do wonders for Floyd if he can defeat them both. So it is hard to settle a point when fighters are still active today. James Toney, Virgil Hill and Hopkins are all going to be HOFers. He doesn't have the record threats are made of, but when it is all said and done, he will have HOFers in his W column. In no sport will you find a consensus comparuing today's athletes vs yesterday's. That is just the way it is unfortunately. I think a lot of it is a product of how American has changed. Back then, fighters fought for money and pride...however it was more for survival and glory. With politics and business change, titles, PPV, etc...it is more about fighting for more money, more money, PPV exposure, media, etc... so in general I think it is harder for athletes to play/fight their sport more for pride and glory than for the millions promised in their faces...today's athletes are raised in a society that rewards undefeated records and perception with millions, PPV dates, and exposure...back then it was more about pride and living

18y ago

Easton_Assassin

Nice reply, but i would add somthing here. Ali, Robinson, and Leonards skills are being measured against fighting other greats. Mayweather against mediocre opposition at best. So i ask, is it fair to gauge the three greats ability against GREAT COMPETITION, and then gauge Mayweather greatness agains mediocre talent? Does that seem fair?

18y ago

sterling

24.11.07 - William Pinkard II: I just got tired of reading ignorant post after ignorant post regarding how Mayweather would have stacked up favorably to all time great pound per pound fighters such as Ali, Robinson or Leonard. It is shocking that ignorance like this in other countries may get a person hung, but since we live in America with freedom of speech the boxing community that tunes into East Side Boxing has to read some get on here and debate in favor of Mayweather (which I do many times defending his greatness in this era), but in their debate and comparing Mayweather to the greats they must not have done their research. They leave out many many facts, or simply do not know.. Many of their assumptions appear to be in this manner: complete positive run down on Mayweather, and one sided details of what he has done, such as win titles in 5 divisions, and attempt to compare this to Armstrong or Robinson when in their era there were no Jr divisions. (Jr middleweight etc.) So in making this comparison they show their ignorance to the sport. I will attempt to make a brief comparison of Mayweather to Robinson, Leonard, and Ali. I will also show why Mayweather while truly a great great fighter and deserves more respect than to not be considered a great fighter, possibly (in my opinion) the best pound per pound today, how he does not measure up? I have done this before in this manner when comparing Leonard to Duran. So I will repeat this approach so that we can quantify this as much as possible, then add subjective reasoning. So how can we compare these four fighters and attempt to factually say one fighter is better pound per pound than the other. The only fair way to do this is to have a scorecard with 11 top categories with a 10 point scoring system. In each category I will give each fighter a score. . At the end I will total up the scores and that will be a quantified approach to this. I will also give a brief Summary at the end that will summarize these fighters. Then make a final decision on just how Mayweather stacks up! Lets get Ready to Rumble. 1. Quality of Opposition: Mayweather 8 Leonard 10 Robinson 10 Ali 10 Mayweather is fighting very good opposition but in comparing it to Robinson, Ali and Leonard. Hmmm beating Corrales, Judah (who has lost to almost everyone quality he has faced including Baldomir and Spinks the first time hmmm) Baldomir, and Dlh who clearly was far removed from his prime as evidenced by his losing 5 of his last 12 fights. 2. Quality of Opposition beaten: Mayweather 8 Leonard 10 Robinson 10 Ali 10 Leonard: Duran twice, Hearns, Hagler, Benitez, all legends. Ali : Liston twice, Foreman, Frazier (2 out of 3), Norton (2 out of 3), Shavers, Robinson: To many to name, but some are Maxin, Lamotta, Basillio, Armstrong May weather : Corrales, Judah (who has lost to almost everyone quality he has faced including Baldomir and Spinks the first time hmmm) Baldomir, and Dlh, Gatti, Castillo. 3. Number of victories Longevity: Mayweather 8 Leonard 7 Robinson 10 Ali 10 Robinson clearly and easily wins this comparison. Ali dominated two decades and it would have been longer had he not been robbed by the US government. Leonard due to his detached retina and often time-retired career gets the lowest score here. Mayweather is doing just fine by modern day comparisons but since the debate is Mayweather vs. fighters like Robinson and Ali - hmmm - he comes up short. 4. Ability to adapt to another style: Mayweather 9 Leonard 10 Robinson 10 Ali 10 This was almost a 10 across the board, and could give Mayweather a 10, but he has not faced a truly dominant fighter and had to adapt to win. Many will say it is not his fault, however remember Leonard dominated fighters too, until he faced Duran. Mayweather has a foe out there that he will surely have to change his style to beat, and that would be Williams. If he can switch up and beat him, he will get a 10. I thought long and hard about this, because Mayweather is a boxing masterpiece, but the title of this section is adapt to another style and he has not had to do such, because he has not faced a true legend that will make him. Ali Changed his style when he had nothing left to utilize certain attributes none of the boxing world knew he had, jaw, heart, will etc. Robinson the same way. He lost a lot of speed and legs and stamina, but still was never ko’d by a fighter, and won vs. the best of a great era. Used boxing skills vs. some, slugged vs. others. Leonard as mentioned faced Duran two different ways, boxing and toe-to-toe. Hearns, he started out boxing, and then became a slugger, Hagler he reverted back to boxing when he a shell of his old self, Benitez out counter punched the counter puncher. One thing needs to be pointed out, changing styles is not always a great attribute, but when you face top fighters or freak of natures like Hearns at Welterweight, your ability to switch to the style to beat a great fighter is a tremendous quality to have. 5. Championships: Mayweather 10 Leonard 10 Robinson 10 Ali 10 All won belts in several weight classes except for Ali, but what do you expect him to do, create a weight class. 6. Boxing ability: Mayweather 10 Leonard 10 Robinson 10 Ali 10 All great great boxers. I cannot not knock anyone here. I have heard the point that Ali and other heavyweights should not get ranked high here. That is Garbage. If you study boxing you will realize that as you increase in weight you tend to have to do less. If you see the fights with Barrera etc you will see that those fighters throw more punches, do more ducking countering than you will see middleweight fighters do, and so on up to heavyweights. That very same point can be used as to why a Leonard or a Mayweather can move up and beat bigger fighters because they are used to doing more ‘BOXING” than the bigger stronger fighter, and many times it comes down to who imposes their style on the fight. So Ali gets a 10 here because you have to rate him on the boxing skills needed for the weight class he fought in. 7. Punching power: Mayweather 7 Leonard 9 Robinson 10 Ali 8 Robinson would get a 15 if I could…Nuff said. Leonard had very good punching power, not like Robinson but he stopped middleweights in Chavarini, and then stopped Lalond. If we were comparing him to Hearns or Duran etc.he would rate lower. Ali had good power, not Robinson power, not Tyson but remember he would stop fighters due to power speed (which results in power many times) in rounds he would call. Not a dynamite puncher but good power. Mayweather outside of Corrales, hmmm lets say his power leaves a lot to be desired. He did brutalize Gatti, but who didn’t, as Mayweather himself called him a club fighter. Has not scratched a top fighter other than Corrales. 8. Defense: Mayweather 10+ Leonard 9 Robinson 8 Ali 9 Mayweather clearly is the best of the pack here. He would get a 15 if I could. Leonard when he focused on defense was great, limiting Duran (2nd fight), Hagler, Benitez to landing virtually nothing. Robinson based on what I saw he had good defense but his offense was sooooooo tremendous along with his jaw and the fact that he fought. hmmm I have to give him the lower score here, but that is actually a strong strong quality of his. 9. Speed: Mayweather 10 Leonard 10 Robinson 10 Ali 10 All were super fast for their respective division.nuff said. 10. Chin: Mayweather 9 Leonard 9 Robinson 10 Ali 10 We could very easily give them all 10’s as Leonard never was dropped until he came back from retirement. Mayweather has only been wobbled once and he responded fantastic. However we cannot rank Leonard and Mayweather up there with Ali or Robinson, it would be insane. Yes they both were dropped, but look at the style of fights they fought, meaning they did more fighting than Mayweather dreamed of ever doing, and for the most part more than ray did. Robinson never ko’d by a fighter (he was stopped due to heat) in all of his fights. Wow. 11. Heart: Mayweather 8 Leonard 10 Robinson 10 Ali 10 Mayweather simply has not shown us this, YET. He may very well have the heart of a Leonard, but remember Leonard and Ali were knocked on this very attribute as well until they had to show it. Totals: Mayweather 97 Leonard 104 Robinson 108 Ali 107 There you have it. This will probably spark a lot of debate. However I removed all bias and scored them on WHAT WE HAVE SEEN THEM DO, not what they are capable of. Ali I ranked him on what is relevant to a Heavy weight, as he is in much different weight class than the others. Mayweather could possibly move up and pass Leonard based on how he performs vs. Hatton, Cotto, and Williams (if he fights them). I say that simply because Mayweather while not having a Duran, Hagler or Hearns on his resume, can only fight the best in his era. In these fighters he will have moved up and challenged them, and they are at their peak, and are damn good fighters. Thus we will have to give him credit once he does this. If he fights them his quality of opposition moves up dramatically, and if he beats them he will get points there as well. As for heart that is on the table for him to gain points as well along with chin. That being said, I do not think he will stay around for as long as Robinson, so it is not a knock against him there, only in comparison he would come up short. In summary we have to give Mayweather his props he is the best of THIS ERA. But when comparing him to Leonard, Ali and Robinson, thus far he comes up short. you have jus started a war lol :banana:

18y ago

feedthegoat

in floyds defence hes still only 30, he has a few more years in him at the top. He will always fight top quality from now on imo, if he wants to carry on as a superstar in usa, he has to have big fights. Ricky is a good start for him, even though i think Floyd loses that fight, Ricky will be a future HOF'er. Theres enough good fighters in the ww, jww and lmw for them to have some greta fights over the next few years and to cement their legacies. For the good of boxing and for the good of both Floyd and Hatton, this fight needs to be close and needs to be a great fight

18y ago

Easton_Assassin

Well maybe theres not alot of great fighters anymore lol Thats true, but that doesn,t mean we should elevate these guys to ATG status just because we don't have alot to choose from. Thats whats being done here. This has been a very weak era talent wise, and people are chomping at the bit to have an ATG. Think about it, every p4p1 guy since jones has been debated as an ATG, i have clearly shown that none have reached that point yet!

18y ago

sterling

hes beat some of the best around this era in his divisions thats all we can ask just a few more gd fighters to beat then mayweather might be a legit hofer if he gets the job done.

18y ago

I'm sorry Floyd wasn't around in the 80's. You want me to get u some tissues? Its not his fault there were no Leonards, Haglers, or Durans. Today's welterweights aren't the ones of the 80's.

18y ago

sterling

Well maybe theres not alot of great fighters anymore lol

18y ago

Easton_Assassin

Nobody cares of ur opinion. Your a Hatton fan who will cry like a bitch when Hatton loses on the 8th. Lol, nice post.

18y ago

Nobody cares of ur opinion. Your a Hatton fan who will cry like a bitch when Hatton loses on the 8th.

18y ago