Honest Question About Floyd vs Cotto & Other WW's?

floyd is one of my favorite fighters of this era but is not ww. The big boys would beat him not because they are bigger but because of there power and floyd wouldn't be able to counter against big fighters who will just swallow his punches

I have no hate towards Floyd. I think he's a phenomenal fighter. He's a 6 time champ and has beaten names like Corrales, Castillo, De La Hoya, & Hatton. I just think him fighting a Cotto, Margarito, or even Mosley would've been great for Boxing and would've been a real test for Floyd. The general consensus from Floyd fans is that he's too skilled, fast, etc to lose to them. But why? How does anyone know that? I never understood how someone could be rated the best if at the time they haven't fought the best (especially when he's in prime shape physically and mentally). We may never know, but as of now I hold Floyd in high regard in the sense of how skilled and intelligent he is in the ring, but there'll always be that * next to his name if he chooses never to fight again when there's plenty of names out there. I think he'll be back though...

This is the normal conversation with a PBF Fan like DLT Boxing Fan 1: Yeah, I think Williams is the best WW because he beat Margo Boxing Fan 2: Well, He DID beat Margo, but Margo has accomplished more in WW and he also beat Cotto was considered the best WW at the time. DLT: NO! NO! NO! MAYWEATHER is the best WW because he beat Baldomir for THE Belt. Boxing Fan 1: Floyd hasnt defended or fought any other WW since then, how can he be the best? Boxing Fan 2: Yeah, why doesn't he actually fight a TOP WW to prove it? DLT: NO! Floyd isnt a natural WW, he's really just a LW so it isn't fair for him to fight someone in WW. It doesnt matter because he has THE belt so he's the best anyway. Boxing Fan 1 and 2: :nonono:

boo fuckin hoo

I agree completley. Floyd is naturally light/super lightweight, and people say he's not that good cos he "ducked" fights with or wouldn't beat guys who are naturally junior middleweights.

I agree 100%.

Floyd is not so short to be a ww. Obviosly compare to Margarito, Wlliams. Cintron he is a midget. But that guys are ww with size of sw and in the case of Williams he has the size of a 160 divition guy. But comparing floyd with Cotto and Hatton is not a considerable diference. I think the most difficult guy to beat in this weight is Wlliams, his size and arms length can cause trouble to anyone. Especially throwing that jab ask Margarito. Im not saying that Williams is the best but remember a lot of fights can be determined by styles. I think at this moment the best welterweights are Mayweather and Cotto. Hatton very near but not at the level of this two because Hatton is too robotic in his boxing style besides he is a great champion and has a lot of power in his hands. Cotto he can box more than Hatton you see that in the fight with Mosley and have an equal or superior power in his hands. Thats why i think that the robotic style of Hatton is perfect to the very thecnical boxing style of Mayweather. Needlees to say Mayweather have to be precausios because Hatton can finish the fight with one punch. Thats why i think Cotto have a better chance to beat mayweather because he have some quiet good boxing skills in combination with relentles power and determination inside the ring. A fight between this fighthers is a win for everybody to the Sporst, Fans and to them for all the money that is going to be in the table. As a Cotto fan and an admirer of mayweather i recomend this guys to not fight the almost unrecognized Williams who cantnot put a lot money in the table and also put a damn chance to a loss in your resume.Lets pray ladies and gentlemens that the fight between Cotto and Mayweather goes. The outcome.... jaj we have a lot of time to discuss that rigth now we are yust dreaming.

hey try to do the same in spanish. Im sure that i do better in english than you do in spanish. English is not my main language and nobody has teach me. thats all by my own.Who is smatter now a guy that only speak one language or a guy that almost speaks two?.

If someone have atleast some chance to beat mayweather is Miguel Cotto. I am an ameteur boxer in PR and i sometimes go to the gym that miguel goes and i see from my own eyes how fast is his jab. He can put that jab consistenly to anyones face througout the hole fight. And remember that jab is like a left hook of a lot of averege boxer out there. And i think mayweather is not the tipe of boxer that can recist a lot damage throug 12 rounds he is not shane mosly in that aspect. I know that mayweather is the most gifted boxer out there if we are talking of boxing skills. But i dont have a lot of respect for him because when he was in the lower divitions he never fight with Barrera, Morales, Juan Manuel Marquez. His first true fight was with Castillo. When he was in 140 he does not fight with the best. He goes to 147 and fights De la Hoya and he won but i saw he is vulnerable with boxers that put presure and are most strong than him. And De la Hoya is not a Hatton or Cotto. Mayweather later said that is going to retire and later said that is going to fight Hatton the same guy the he try to not collide in 140. My point is that he said he is the best when he does not fight the bests fighters in each of very divition that he has been in too. Hes not a Mosley, De la Hoya, Trinidad, Hopkins that are the tipe of fighter that said if they are going to another divition, Whos the best here and they fight them. Thats why everyone in that list have lost becuase thay take risk and fight the best. But a guy like Mayweather doesnt deserve to be named pound for pound the best boxer because his record. And neither Cotto because right now is starting to take real opponents. But he have something that mayweather doesnt the will to fight anyone at anytime.his first true test was against hernandez and then corrales who was the favorite to win, and floyd dominated them both in very impressive fashion. don't put all the blame on floyd for not fighting morales or barrera or hamed casamayor frietaz or whoever else you mentioned. it takes to to tango, and he beat castillo twice for the 135 title and beat him in the rematch. you train with cotto, and you see how he fights, that's cool, i fought myself for 8 years and i know a greta jab when i see a great jab. cotto has a good jab and a great left hook, but having all this is just part of his greatness. floyd has a great jab and a good left hook also, but is a smarter fighter. cotto is a great fighter imo but mayweather would beat cotto, and this is taking nothing away from cotto, like you seem to be taking a lot away from floyd as far as his legacy and who he fought. name fighters that cotto has fought if you're going to name fighters that floyd has fought. i mean, cotto fought sosa after floyd. cotto fought zab after floyd. cotto fought corley after floyd. how can you downplay floyd who fought zab, who is dangerous to any fighter. he fought gatti who was on a role prior to fighting floyd. he fought baldomir who, like gatti, held the wbc champion for his weight class and was physically bigger than floyd just like gatti was, corely was, and zab was to an extent? why not criticize cotto's opponents. did cotto ever fight a kosta tzyu at 140. he fought paulie who although was faster than him, couldn't hurt him if he let paulie hit him. now, shane fights zab, quitana qho many believe would outbox him, but i've never seen anything special about carlos, and shane who put up a great fight against him at his age, and cotto has the best shot at beating floyd.?... no, no, no, young one. that's not how it works. people criticize floyd for fighting bums but cotto fought some of the same bums after floyd did and they both showcased great skills against them, so focus on their skill level, even if you don't want to. boxing requires skills obviously so you do have to foucs on it to a degree, not just heart and physical attributes, because to dodge punches, takes skill, to block punches effectively, takes skill, to throw a jab effectively, takes skill, to counterpunch, have good foot and upperbody movement, takes skill. all these come into to play as well as the most important trait, a smart mindset, which is what floyd has and has showcase throughout his whole career, seeing how he's still undefeated and will still be after he fights hatton.

Damn dude... I'd hate to see how much you type when you have time to go in-depth.you know what, i read what i wrote and then, i even said, damn, what the hell was this? i just wrote a rough draft preresquisite. i knoew this shit was long as hell. and by the way, this comment made me laugh my ass off. i didn't mean to type that much in but i really got into it. you know how when you feel like you have to make certain points to go with your lest points, and you just can't leave it out, that's how i felt. but, looking back, i wrote a lot of shit and i damn near fell asleep reading it myself, but nonethelss, before i go into another novel, i must admit, minus the grammatical errors and spelling, i made some great points, don't you agree?:banana:

If someone have atleast some chance to beat mayweather is Miguel Cotto. I am an ameteur boxer in PR and i sometimes go to the gym that miguel goes and i see from my own eyes how fast is his jab. He can put that jab consistenly to anyones face througout the hole fight. And remember that jab is like a left hook of a lot of averege boxer out there. And i think mayweather is not the tipe of boxer that can recist a lot damage throug 12 rounds he is not shane mosly in that aspect. I know that mayweather is the most gifted boxer out there if we are talking of boxing skills. But i dont have a lot of respect for him because when he was in the lower divitions he never fight with Barrera, Morales, Juan Manuel Marquez. His first true fight was with Castillo. When he was in 140 he does not fight with the best. He goes to 147 and fights De la Hoya and he won but i saw he is vulnerable with boxers that put presure and are most strong than him. And De la Hoya is not a Hatton or Cotto. Mayweather later said that is going to retire and later said that is going to fight Hatton the same guy the he try to not collide in 140. My point is that he said he is the best when he does not fight the bests fighters in each of very divition that he has been in too. Hes not a Mosley, De la Hoya, Trinidad, Hopkins that are the tipe of fighter that said if they are going to another divition, Whos the best here and they fight them. Thats why everyone in that list have lost becuase thay take risk and fight the best. But a guy like Mayweather doesnt deserve to be named pound for pound the best boxer because his record. And neither Cotto because right now is starting to take real opponents. But he have something that mayweather doesnt the will to fight anyone at anytime.

Damn dude... I'd hate to see how much you type when you have time to go in-depth. LMAO I said the SAME EXACT THING.

Damn dude... I'd hate to see how much you type when you have time to go in-depth.

I disagree, I HAVE seen Floyd fight South Paw, I own all 38 of his career fights from Roberto Apodaca to Oscar De La Hoya and soon Ricky Hatton, you ain't telling me nothing about Floyd.. what I meant by Cotto being more versatile is that he switches his offense MANY times in a round, he can switch up stance in the middle of a combo and hold down the stance for a while, he can bang with BOTH hands and he holds his hands up high so he's harder to hit and since he's so dangerous with his power while moving back he can still be banging while Boxing, when Shane felt Cotto's pwer to the body and saw his quick hands when punching he knew he could be caught with some shit to rock his melon so he picked his shots, he couldn't just come in wailing because he had some respect for Cotto's power, Mosley did nothing wrong in that fight, he brought his A game and took the proper precaution he just lost the Boxing match.. it's not about fighting south paw, I know Floyd can fight south paw and going back wards but Cotto is more versatile in terms of his offense not his stance, I said that they are the biggest threats to one another, Floyd is more elusive but Cotto can make you pay more, Cotto can dig threw your defense Floyd just works around you and punches when and where he can, he doesn't take a punch to give 3 like Cotto does, he takes no punches to give 1, his style is a true winning style but Cotto is more willing to make you pay, his punches range, his quick hands and stinging power makes it so that he becomes too much for anyone because he switches from south paw to righty in the middle of combos, he QUICKLY throws 1 to the face and 2 to the body and just falls back, 2 seconds later he's back at it.. Floyd CAN fight aggressive but he doesn't hence making Cotto more versatile being that he puts into use elements of offense that Floyd doesn't, he regularly throws a good defense, a good offense, good movement, good guard, good speed, good power and no emotion all in constant rotation.. any second Cotto can just jump to righty and use his left to kill you and within the same combo jump back to left and give you 2 hooks to the body then fall back and use his jab, either way he's calmly coming at you and picking you apart, he uses more elements of his skills to break down his opponents than Floyd who will pop shot his way to a victory, he doesn't take chances and as a result they almost stole the De La Hoya fight from him, he does enough to get threw and win he doesn't take any chances against someone who can make him pay, he plays it safe and bangs with guys like Mitchell and Gatti who which 1 has the skills but not the power and 1 has the power but not the skills, Floyd has more so he can do more but against someone who matches him he plays it safe, he presents 1 VERY hard to deal with style and it hasn't been beaten but I say Cotto is more versatile because he pops out with MORE shit to better his offense, his willingness to take chances creates better opportunities for him to hit back hard.. I'll be the 1st to tell you I like Floyd, I don't think we will have such a technically sound and mentally focused fighter in our era after him, I say what I say because you have to judge him by what he brings to the table and against who and why, he breaks n1ggaz down THAT much that you have to look at that, Cotto doesn't pick 1 way to fight, he's been this way since back in his JWW days.. Floyd looks for ways to not get hit and the way he does it is amazing to me, he CAN bang and do EVERYTHING Cotto does but doesn't, I can't give him more credit than Cotto in versatility if he doesn't put it into effect, Cotto against anyone will always take 1 to give 2, he can fight very well going back and I had Shane only winning the 3rd, 8th, 9th and 10th, Cotto picked apart Shane Mosley, he out Boxed the Boxer.. he started as the fighter and finished as the Boxer, Floyd as I said CAN do everything Cotto could do but Cotto pulls out more rabbits from his hat even when he doesn't because he aims to hurt with his every shot, Mayweather doesn't, his initial instinct is to win that round which is smart and hard to overcome for his opponents but it isn't more versatile.. damn I need a coffee. 100now, i respect this argument. this was a dcent argument, and unfortunately i don't have time to respond in depth to you, but i will once i'm done work. i'm going to foucs on your point of versatility. is cotto versatile, well that is hard to say for sure seeing how he showed something different against shane mosley, but that was one fight. consistently, he's been pretty one dimansional. it's really damn near impossible to claim that cotto is more versatile than floyd, seeing how floyd is considered by many experts and fans alike as a master at adjusting to any fighter's style. that's versatility for you ass. i mean, let's be honest, floyd is the most methodcial fighter in the sport, and he is super hard to figure out no matter what weaknesses other fighters see in him. they see something that they feel they can expose and come fight night, floyd does something different to throw them off of their game, this is only one reason why he's methodical. cotto is relentless, but against someone like floyd who is so observant of everything around him, cotto would get picked apart slowly and methodically by mayweather. when cotto fought sosa, he showed some good foot movement and of course a lot of power and this was a sosa who was a great boxer and threw pretty decent shots himself, but cotto seemed to instill a fear into sosa who actually is a better boxer then cotto is imo. but against mayweather, cotto would have to completely instill all sorts of fear into floyd, and that's impossible because floyd is the most cinfident fighter in that ring. he knows how to beat you, no matter how he does it, he's that smart and confident. his versatility doesn't stem from him turning southpaw which he does better than cotto and if cotto ever turned southpaw against floyd, floyd will catch him a lot, i guarantee you. his versalitility comes from his ring genralship. he knows that ring better than most fighters that came along for the past 4 or 5 decades. floyd knows how to fight off of the ropes effectively like countering or blocking or using it as a scapegoat or a wall to hammer a fighter caught on it. floyd also knows how to stand in the pocket without getting hit too much while countering or throwing nice combos like he did against corley who although was knocked out(controversially) against cotto, hurt cotto also, where floyd threw this nice combo against him, it was a right hook, followed quickly by a right uppercut in a slapping motion, and then a left slapping hook followed quickly by a right straight. cotto uses a lot of power when he punches but floyd knows how to throw punches in a slapping manner or a powerful manner and he would toy with cotto in doing this. floyd can land punches to the body very effectively also. i mean, we all shoudl know about his jab to the body where he places it very well, and cotto would have to use his jab well to beat floyd, and in doing this, he would get countered because he's not fast enough to dodge a punch by floyd imo. i mean, cotto fought shane well moving forward and he showed that he can adjust to a fighter like shane hwo has great speed but is not as polished as floyd. shane is also at this stage not as accurate as floyd is and for that matter never was. floyd is a very accurate puncher because his timing is emaculant. that shows versalitility, great timing added to great movement and generalship around the ring. floyd is very versatile, more than cotto is. now, let's talk about speed. we all know that floyd is faster than cotto is, but i'm not just talking about fast punches, because even a slower fighter can outpunch a speedier fighter if they can show adjustment to that fighter. let me explain. cotto works at a steady tempo which works great for him and his body placement is usually good. but, mayweather can adjust his speed very well. he did so against oscar, gatti, zab, and genaro hernandez verl well. he can fight at different tempos very well whether backing up or standing still or moving left and right. cotto hasn't shown that he can handle a fighter who moves at different speeds effectively. against zab, when zab moved well, cotto had problems and this is when he got hit and stunned bad. aginst floyd, who is very flexible with his upperbody movement and fast as hell with his upperbody movment cotto is in for a long night. cotto hits hard, but against floyd who would dodge many of his shots, hitting hard won't be enough. gatti said it best when he said, he is fast with his upperbody movment, which he didn't expect, and cotto was at that fight. floyd's flexibility is astounding because he is so small compared to cotto but is like a rubberband man where he can dodge almost any punch cotto throws at him because of his upperbody movment. and this is why i mention this in many of my posts, because floyd's upperbody movement is fast as shit. i'll end here for now, but later on tonight i'll explain floyd's versatility in his footwork and eye coordiantion as well as cotto's footwork and defense, oh yeah, and i'll also explain floyd's quick reflexes to combinations also which cotto throws and they are great combinations also. please resond back to what i just typed in. i would love to have a respectab;e argument with you. you seem very knowledgable and we need more like you on here. i'll talk to you later man.

PBF can be critized for not fighting those big guys because they are all in the same weight class its that simple. PBF gets hated on more for the shit he says than for what he does in the ring. All the shit he talked was never really a big problem until he started becoming the biggest name in boxing and he beat the 2 fighters white people love the most in De la Hoya and Gatti. I have to admit that the skills Cotto showed me in the Mosley fight has drastically changed my opinion of him. Cotto is a much better fighter than I originally thought he was and gave him credit for. But I still don't see him beating PBF. Mosley is a different fighter than PBF. PBF will not be hit constantly by that jab or right hand the way Mosley was. Mosley has never been a fighter who could make adjustments mid-fight. PBF constantly makes adjustments during the fight. PBF potshots because he has very fragile hands. He has to pick and choose his power shots especially against those much bigger men. At 147 PBF can't afford to sit down on his punches early and hurt his hands early and still win the fight. At the lower weights he could do that because the size difference wasn't there. Cotto is not the better skilled fighter or smarter fighter IMO. What Cotto showed me against Mosley makes this fight better than I thought it would be at first but I would still pick PBF. That is because PBF has always been more skilled and smarter than Mosley. Mosley's defense was terrible in the Cotto fight. That statement takes nothing away from Cotto and what he accomplished. :hail: ..............well said

How do you see Spinks vs. Mayweather going down at 154? I agree that it is going to take someone who follows the boxing textbook pretty strictly to beat Mayweather. Forrest obviously does that. I think Cory Spinks does too... why do you think he isn't a big threat? Just curious. I don't think Cory would beat Mayweather. First of all, Cory was losing the second fight to Zab (before he got KO'd, obviously) and I scored the first one a draw. He also struggled against Mayorga in the both fights and I thought he tied in the first one and only won the second because of the point deductions (I had it 114-114 in the first and 113-114 Spinks in the second). Secondly, Cory doesn't hit hard enough to make Floyd respect him. Cory is a slick southpaw, but Mayweather is a master boxer (not that Cory isn't a great boxer himself) and I really think he'd have no problem trading with Cory. I think the fight DEFINITELY goes the full 12, but I think the judges would be more impressed with Mayweather than Cory (who gets lazy sometimes). Forrest at least has the power and reach advantages and would be able to easily fight Floyd from the outside OR the inside. Bad matchup for lil' Floyd.

Floyd was outweighed by DLH by AT LEAST 12 pounds (Floyd weighed 148 on fight night while I'm sure Oscar didn't weigh less than 160) and he still waxed that ass. Anyone who says that Floyd would lose to the WWs based on size is an idiot. BTW, DLH is faster, hits harder, and puts his punches together better than Margarito, Williams, Cotto or Hatton so what makes people think Floyd would lose to lesser-skilled fighters who won't weigh as much as 160 on fight night (while Floyd will probably weigh about the same)? I've said it before and I'll say it again, south of 160, only Vernon Forrest is a threat to Floyd. How do you see Spinks vs. Mayweather going down at 154? I agree that it is going to take someone who follows the boxing textbook pretty strictly to beat Mayweather. Forrest obviously does that. I think Cory Spinks does too... why do you think he isn't a big threat? Just curious.

You've never seen Floyd fight southpaw, he does it well and has done it many times. I don't think Cotto is more versatile even though he did surprise with his boxing skill. When he was fighting backwards and against the ropes (not so much aginast the ropes) but I had him losing those rds. He doesn't fight good backwards and he is awkard when fighting that way. if Mosley was more accurate and put hi punches together like he usually does, you would see Cotto doesn't fight that well going backwards. I disagree, I HAVE seen Floyd fight South Paw, I own all 38 of his career fights from Roberto Apodaca to Oscar De La Hoya and soon Ricky Hatton, you ain't telling me nothing about Floyd.. what I meant by Cotto being more versatile is that he switches his offense MANY times in a round, he can switch up stance in the middle of a combo and hold down the stance for a while, he can bang with BOTH hands and he holds his hands up high so he's harder to hit and since he's so dangerous with his power while moving back he can still be banging while Boxing, when Shane felt Cotto's pwer to the body and saw his quick hands when punching he knew he could be caught with some shit to rock his melon so he picked his shots, he couldn't just come in wailing because he had some respect for Cotto's power, Mosley did nothing wrong in that fight, he brought his A game and took the proper precaution he just lost the Boxing match.. it's not about fighting south paw, I know Floyd can fight south paw and going back wards but Cotto is more versatile in terms of his offense not his stance, I said that they are the biggest threats to one another, Floyd is more elusive but Cotto can make you pay more, Cotto can dig threw your defense Floyd just works around you and punches when and where he can, he doesn't take a punch to give 3 like Cotto does, he takes no punches to give 1, his style is a true winning style but Cotto is more willing to make you pay, his punches range, his quick hands and stinging power makes it so that he becomes too much for anyone because he switches from south paw to righty in the middle of combos, he QUICKLY throws 1 to the face and 2 to the body and just falls back, 2 seconds later he's back at it.. Floyd CAN fight aggressive but he doesn't hence making Cotto more versatile being that he puts into use elements of offense that Floyd doesn't, he regularly throws a good defense, a good offense, good movement, good guard, good speed, good power and no emotion all in constant rotation.. any second Cotto can just jump to righty and use his left to kill you and within the same combo jump back to left and give you 2 hooks to the body then fall back and use his jab, either way he's calmly coming at you and picking you apart, he uses more elements of his skills to break down his opponents than Floyd who will pop shot his way to a victory, he doesn't take chances and as a result they almost stole the De La Hoya fight from him, he does enough to get threw and win he doesn't take any chances against someone who can make him pay, he plays it safe and bangs with guys like Mitchell and Gatti who which 1 has the skills but not the power and 1 has the power but not the skills, Floyd has more so he can do more but against someone who matches him he plays it safe, he presents 1 VERY hard to deal with style and it hasn't been beaten but I say Cotto is more versatile because he pops out with MORE shit to better his offense, his willingness to take chances creates better opportunities for him to hit back hard.. I'll be the 1st to tell you I like Floyd, I don't think we will have such a technically sound and mentally focused fighter in our era after him, I say what I say because you have to judge him by what he brings to the table and against who and why, he breaks n1ggaz down THAT much that you have to look at that, Cotto doesn't pick 1 way to fight, he's been this way since back in his JWW days.. Floyd looks for ways to not get hit and the way he does it is amazing to me, he CAN bang and do EVERYTHING Cotto does but doesn't, I can't give him more credit than Cotto in versatility if he doesn't put it into effect, Cotto against anyone will always take 1 to give 2, he can fight very well going back and I had Shane only winning the 3rd, 8th, 9th and 10th, Cotto picked apart Shane Mosley, he out Boxed the Boxer.. he started as the fighter and finished as the Boxer, Floyd as I said CAN do everything Cotto could do but Cotto pulls out more rabbits from his hat even when he doesn't because he aims to hurt with his every shot, Mayweather doesn't, his initial instinct is to win that round which is smart and hard to overcome for his opponents but it isn't more versatile.. damn I need a coffee. 100

Margarito, Williams and Cintron have significant height and reach advantages. In essence, in order for Mayweather to hit these 3, he'd have to come into harms way very often. So he'd be getting hit more than he's accustomed to. In the case of Margarito and Cintron, he'd be getting hit alot harder than he's ever been hit before. He'd truly have a hard time with any of these 3. I mean, how does anyone get inside Paul Williams jab and punch output. The guy averages about a hundred punches per round, is 6ft 2 with an 80inch wing span. You mean to tell me that Mayweather can walk thru that at 5'6" and 74' wingspan. Mayweather is a good defensive fighter, but would be outclassed by bigger, stronger active guys. He will not fight any of those 3 guys. Now on to Cotto. Mayweather and Cotto matchup very well. In the Mosley fight I saw resiliecy in Cotto, that I had not previously seen. When his body attack doesnt work, he had to go to plan B and box backing up. I think Mayweather/Cotto is a pick em fight. Mayweather has advantages in Speed and defense. Cotto has a power advantage. Cotto would stalk Floyd, like Baldomir. Accept he's much better than baldomir. He also has alot more power. If Baldomir had KO power, how different would that fight have been?

so, the floyd haters call dlt's post excuses. well, seeing how none of them had any guts to respond to mine, i'll ince again intervene in the thread. calling fans buthuggers or anything else that are basically cop outs for not having the decency to have respecatble arguments is just sad. i mean, dlt, myself, and cortdawg to name a few gave reasons behind are arguments. many haters on here, not all, responded with stupid fucking names, but that's okay, that's just who they are, haters. respect the man, he's leagues ahead of majority fighters in the sport as far as skillwise. he's the bets fighter in boxing, face it. out of oscar, he gets paid the most, deal with it. i mean, you can call the man every name in the book, and it doesn't hold any ground when he has accomplished so much to get that stats he has today. call him this, call him that, just don't call him collect. once again, i'm out.