Taylors state of mind

did pavlik wake up jermain taylor or did he expose him? is jermain taylor chomping at the bit to get back into the gym hoping to destroy kelly pavlik, or is he just trying to get a big payday? i personally think he ahs too much pride to ever reject a rematch clause even if he was scared. however i dont think taylor is one bit scared of pavlik, just realizes hes the best fighter out there besides perhaps himself and calzaghe (arguably) He didn't "wake him up." He "put him to sleep." I'm afraid in the rematch, we'll see much the same thing...Taylor cannot handle Pavlik. IMO

I don't think Jermain can beat Kelly fighting toe to toe. He would have to outbox him(if that's possible). Jermain's defense is sloppy and flawed though, and his jab still ain't what it used to be(but that could be cuz of the step up in opponents). And he didn't get severely beat by Pavlik. KOed but it wasn't some total ass whooping.

taylor was in the bets shape of his life that night he cant get n e better

Look at Hearns face after the second Barkley fight, it looks like someone inflated it with air, he has definitely been through some wars.

Oh. I guess that's an altogether different matter. I was addressing the psychological capacity of fighters to recover and cited the cases of Barrera, Frazier, Lewis, Foreman and how much time it took them to face the opponents who beat them, what happened in rematches, or in the cases where there were no rematches, how much time it took them to get back to the ring and perform in the manner that each of them did post-their-respective-traumatic experiences. You will notice that at the end of my post that you quoted, I guessed that it varries from person to person. I said, it seems that it's a case-to-case... Pretty early in the same post, I clearly stated that there were those who never were able to recover as there were those who did--at varrying levels. On the matter of fighters leaving "a piece of...in the ring", I believe that applies too to the psychological effects of a violent encounter as it does to the physiological effects. Someone who lost property in a fire may not have been singed but still may suffer from psychological scars. Nothing physiological; something psychological. Doctors have come to refer to certain such cases as PTSD-- Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder-- which can also happen to a fighter who has defeated HOF-type opponents but suffers a stoppage loss, as in the case of Taylor. As for the comparison between Hearns and Taylor, Hearns has had 67 fights--more than twice that of Taylor-- in six weight divisions. Taylor has been fighting in only one division. Taylor has been stopped only once; Hearns four times. Hearns had been in the wrong end of the punches of the likes of Hagler, Barkley, Duran, Pipino Cuevas-- people not exactly famed for light taps. The biggest puncher Taylor has faced are Pavlik... and maybe Joppy, in which case, I'll have to put in Sugar Ray Leonard in Hearns' ledger. And, if one puts Hopkins in Taylor's side of the equation, maybe I'd toss in Benitez. 7 rounds of Pavlik-Taylor= 3 rounds of Hagler-Hearns, 3 rounds of Barkley-Hearns I, 12 rounds of Barkelyj-Hearns II... that's on top of gruelling bouts with Leonard and Benitez....There's just something wrong with that equation.... AS for how much a single stoppage loss can damage a fighter, i recall the time when Foreman stopped Frazier in Jamaica, he dropped Smokin' Joe three times in the first and another three times in the second before it was over. Now, that can really damage the brain. But matters did not stop there. When they met again some three years later, Foreman dropped Frazier twice in the fifth leading to the stoppage. Like I wrote in the post you quoted, Frazier met Ali (twice), Bugner, Ellis and Quarry in between the two meetings with Foreman. Ali far from walked over Frazier in their two fights, one of which was the Thrilla in Manila, and won over over Bugner, Ellis and Quarry. All put together, how much more damaging would all that have been compared to Pavlik's 7 rounds with Taylor? One really violent fight, one stoppage leading to brain damage of the type that shall be severe enough to...? Man Hagler/Hearns, what a damn slugfest! Yeah Taylor has a long way to go to absorb as much punishment as Hearns did over his career.

He asked for the immediate rematch. He didn't want any tune ups and he didn't want to wait until fall of next year. He is chomping at the bit to get his belts back. It remains to be seen if his hunger can get him past the ghost.

I understand Taylor is demanding the same judges for the rematch that judged the first fight. After all they were paid to provide a win for Taylor and they didn't come thru. I'm sure they'll do everything possible to make it up to him...

Taylor is mentally broken for good. He has never represented the Middleweight crown with confidence since winning (officially) the first BHop fight. He won on the cards, but he was beat to shit mentally. I see no passion for the sport of boxing in him and he apparently doesn't even follow the sport...as the previous Middleweight "King", I find that kind of disgraceful. It just shows he's not concerned with history or legacy, which only leaves the money factor. Plus, he will be losing the support of those who were making money off of him when he was top dog. Now, he's gonna have to depend on himself and I don't think he's able to do that. I don't see him fighting off the wolves when he's thrown into the wild. Boxing seemed to be nothing more than a means to an end, and he's got the big screen t.v. and leather couch he always wanted. If he hasn't been wise with his money, we're in for another rags to riches to rags story.

Im not talking about psycological, Im talking about physiological brain damage. When they say you leave a piece of yourself in the ring, that piece you are leaving is brain tissue. If Taylor takes this fight, he will be slurring like Tommy Hearns in 10 years time, or less.Oh. I guess that's an altogether different matter. I was addressing the psychological capacity of fighters to recover and cited the cases of Barrera, Frazier, Lewis, Foreman and how much time it took them to face the opponents who beat them, what happened in rematches, or in the cases where there were no rematches, how much time it took them to get back to the ring and perform in the manner that each of them did post-their-respective-traumatic experiences. You will notice that at the end of my post that you quoted, I guessed that it varries from person to person. I said, it seems that it's a case-to-case... Pretty early in the same post, I clearly stated that there were those who never were able to recover as there were those who did--at varrying levels. On the matter of fighters leaving "a piece of...in the ring", I believe that applies too to the psychological effects of a violent encounter as it does to the physiological effects. Someone who lost property in a fire may not have been singed but still may suffer from psychological scars. Nothing physiological; something psychological. Doctors have come to refer to certain such cases as PTSD-- Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder-- which can also happen to a fighter who has defeated HOF-type opponents but suffers a stoppage loss, as in the case of Taylor. As for the comparison between Hearns and Taylor, Hearns has had 67 fights--more than twice that of Taylor-- in six weight divisions. Taylor has been fighting in only one division. Taylor has been stopped only once; Hearns four times. Hearns had been in the wrong end of the punches of the likes of Hagler, Barkley, Duran, Pipino Cuevas-- people not exactly famed for light taps. The biggest puncher Taylor has faced are Pavlik... and maybe Joppy, in which case, I'll have to put in Sugar Ray Leonard in Hearns' ledger. And, if one puts Hopkins in Taylor's side of the equation, maybe I'd toss in Benitez. 7 rounds of Pavlik-Taylor= 3 rounds of Hagler-Hearns, 3 rounds of Barkley-Hearns I, 12 rounds of Barkelyj-Hearns II... that's on top of gruelling bouts with Leonard and Benitez....There's just something wrong with that equation.... AS for how much a single stoppage loss can damage a fighter, i recall the time when Foreman stopped Frazier in Jamaica, he dropped Smokin' Joe three times in the first and another three times in the second before it was over. Now, that can really damage the brain. But matters did not stop there. When they met again some three years later, Foreman dropped Frazier twice in the fifth leading to the stoppage. Like I wrote in the post you quoted, Frazier met Ali (twice), Bugner, Ellis and Quarry in between the two meetings with Foreman. Ali far from walked over Frazier in their two fights, one of which was the Thrilla in Manila, and won over over Bugner, Ellis and Quarry. All put together, how much more damaging would all that have been compared to Pavlik's 7 rounds with Taylor? One really violent fight, one stoppage leading to brain damage of the type that shall be severe enough to...?

There is a difference between getting knocked out, and getting broken down for 7 rounds, then knocked out.Where lies the difference from the psychological standpoint? I'm no shrink and I have not gotten near one ever, so I'm prepared to learn.

I remember the advice given to kids who fall off or crash bikes:"Get right back on it!" I dunno that the same thing works for boxing. Going back to the game's history doesn't help one arrive at a definitive conclusion. There have been many fighters who never recovered from a devastating loss, there have been those who did just as well as they did and those who did even better. Barrera lost twice to Junior Jones, but then, moved on to heights greater than Jones (for whatever reason) ever achieved. Lewis was stopped by RAchman, but came back 7 months later to stop Rachman. Earlier, Lewis was sent to bed by McCall in two and it took close to three years for the twain to meet again and for Lewis to avenge that defeat. Big George Foreman carried the emotional burden of that defeat in the hands of Ali for decades before re-inventing himself and, then made himself the oldest man to win a heavyweight crown. Frazier remained competitive for a few more years after that first devastating loss in two rounds to Foreman in Jamaica. Joe was still so "smokin'" that he figured in two fights with Ali, including the Thrilla in Manila--considered by quite a number of people as among the top ten best fights in history--along with victories over Joe Bugner, Jerry Quarry and Jimmy Ellis. I dunno... I think, it's a case-to-case...I believe it varies from person to person on how long one recovers; if one recovers at all.

Good question. It could be either, you can't really say for sure. My guess would be Taylor is a little intimidated by Pavlik. He showed that in the 1st round in their fight, starting off with a huge right hand, wasting a lot of unnecessary energy waste and being very hyperactive, all signs of some kind of defense mechanism associated with fear. Pavlik didn't just knock him out physically, he hurt him mentally. He has to play this right. Honestly if I were in charge of him I would never put him back in the ring with Kelly I would just move on. I would move him up to 168 or wherever he's comfortable. I mean he had his chance. Pavlik took the best of Taylor got up and whooped his ass. At a certain point you need to know when someone has your number. Sure it's courageous but, even though I don't like Jermaine, I don't want to see him get KOed again. two losses to pavlik will destroy taylor's confidence

Well Taylor probably has something to prove himself. If you lost at something you were really good at, wouldn't you want another chance? I mean he had his chance. Pavlik took the best of Taylor got up and whooped his ass. At a certain point you need to know when someone has your number. Sure it's courageous but, even though I don't like Jermaine, I don't want to see him get KOed again.

He has to play this right. Honestly if I were in charge of him I would never put him back in the ring with Kelly I would just move on. I would move him up to 168 or wherever he's comfortable.