Whitaker revisionism

David. Be mature. Please. People disagree on boxing opinions. A panel of boxing writers chose Tito above Oscar. I'm not saying that it is right, wrong or otherwise. I was just posting what the resluts of the rankings were, and explaining to you what I thought the rationale may be why they had Tito that much higher than Oscar. Oscar has lost against most of his best competition. Shane has lost against most of HIS best competition. Truth be told, Oscar didn't accomplish that much at WW. His best win was Quartey. Shane Mosley accomplished what besides Oscar, what other fighter did he beat to deserve in your opinion to be rated higher than Oscar and at par with Tito. He did not beat any other top guys, no Trinidad,no Quartey and no Whitaker. He beat Rivera who Oscar had beatin ,A.Diaz and lost twice to Forrest. Oscar beat Whitaker ,Quartey and Trinidad. That is as good as it gets for someone that didn't accomplish much at WW. I'm mature, i was just being overly sarcastic.....My bad.

I got nothing against this Hall of Fame fighter, I just want to discuss a few claims that have become commonplace in here. 1. Here are the scores for his fight with De La Hoya: referee: Mills Lane | judge: Chuck Giampa 111-115 | judge: Jerry Roth 110-116 | judge: Dalby Shirley 110-116 ~ ~ WBC welterweight title ~ Now a lot of people disagree with these scores, and you're free to do so. But to claim either that Whitaker was robbed or that this was a questionable decision is plain revisionism. I described this in another thread as a "wide decision" for Oscar. It was that. At the time Whitaker was, what, 33? Oscar was what? 24? No advantage to Oscar there. Sorry. 2. It doesn't go without saying either that his draw with JCC was some kind of disgraceful robbery. He didn't show "ring generalship," he showed evasive boxing at its worst, but only he coupled that with effective punching. If he didn't move backwards at full speed the whole time it would be a different story. Also, he took some punishment there. All in all it's not easy to judge that. 3. It's only since Mayweather has dissed the other great fighters of the 90's that Whitaker has become spoken of as if he were Ray Robinson. He wasn't. He's roughly in the same rank as De La Hoya and Trinidad, maybe a notch below them 1. No "robbery", but no "wide decision" either. 33-24 is a major age advantage, considering a) how Pea looked against Hurtado b) He never won a single title fight afterwards c) Pea's style does not age well, being based on his reflexes (see Roy Jones, Ray Leonard, Ray Robinson. 2. Bullshit. Frustrating one of the greatest pressure fighters outlanding him big time was one of the greatest boxing clinics ever seen. That draw was highway robbery, one of the worst decisions EVER. The only other person who said what you said was Ferocity and i think he built the first temple entitled to JCC or something like that. 3. Pea was a lightweight, that's the major difference. Oscar and Tito were welters (dont say Oscar is a lightweight, please, or I will walk you through the differences between Oscar and a lightweight). He met both while past his best. He is above them, for the same reason Duran is above Leonard. 4. What happened to you? you usually make sense. By the way I read in another post of yours where you rank RJJ, and I assume you dont hold his past his prime career against him. Just do the same with Pea!

Ugh, Shane Mosley who has only one top notch victory in his career. Yes, he beat Oscar (115-113) but who else did he beat at welter. He didn't fight Tito,Quartey or Pernell. If by beating Oscar, that ranks him ahead of Oscar who fought everyone of relavance at WW, then that speaks volumes of Oscar as a fighter and his accomplishments. Tito never beat Oscar. Good Night. Anyone who thinks that Mosley should be rater higher than ODLH at Ww, is free to call be a fuckin idiot for not believing he is.

I have not read the whole thread but I'll say my part. I thought Pernell won vs DLH, I was fairly dissapointed at the time. I also thought DLH lost to Quartey by enough that it should have been a UD. I havent watched either fight since they aired live so I can only remember who I had winning.

Everyone is beatable, they are all human and they can all be beat. That being said, you are kinda making it sound like he will try to duck everyone else, even though the 2 you mentioned are the top 2 welterwieghts in the division other than Floyd, which def. isn't a bad thing. We are going off on a tangent here back to the SW conversation. ok since i apparently need to clarify, i meant because of money... i think very lowly of williams but his style would definatly be a problem for the increasingly inactive Floyd Mayweather Jr.... AND i also meant even welterweight's other 2 big names shouldnt beat Floyd, because one is a style made guy for him and pretty hittable and the other an old man, who sooner or later could give a bad night.....

i meant judah and baldomir...... hell even cotto and old shane are pretty much beatable because cotto gets it too much and shane is old...floyd wont try to fight anybody else.... Everyone is beatable, they are all human and they can all be beat. That being said, you are kinda making it sound like he will try to duck everyone else, even though the 2 you mentioned are the top 2 welterwieghts in the division other than Floyd, which def. isn't a bad thing. We are going off on a tangent here back to the SW conversation.

He actually turned southpaw and ripped Sharmba with a straight left. To be honest, that is the most impressed I have been by Mayweather at any point in his career. I saw that fight on youtube the other day Merchant was saying how he throws that straight left better than most other southpaws can.

Fortunate to run into a beatable 147 division? Welterweight is the best division in all of boxing and we have a guy who started at 130 dominating it right now. The Floyd hate is unreal... i meant judah and baldomir...... hell even cotto and old shane are pretty much beatable because cotto gets it too much and shane is old...floyd wont try to fight anybody else....

thats the biggest test in inside fighting he has had, nothing that he has done since has led me to believe he's better than before.... JLC used upper body movement to neutralize PBF inside.... honestly PBF was great at the lighter weights but now i dont see anything impressive in him....he was fortunate to run into a beatable 147 division.... 140 down he was amazing though..... Fortunate to run into a beatable 147 division? Welterweight is the best division in all of boxing and we have a guy who started at 130 dominating it right now. The Floyd hate is unreal...

I got nothing against this Hall of Fame fighter, I just want to discuss a few claims that have become commonplace in here. 1. Here are the scores for his fight with De La Hoya: referee: Mills Lane | judge: Chuck Giampa 111-115 | judge: Jerry Roth 110-116 | judge: Dalby Shirley 110-116 ~ ~ WBC welterweight title ~ Now a lot of people disagree with these scores, and you're free to do so. But to claim either that Whitaker was robbed or that this was a questionable decision is plain revisionism. I described this in another thread as a "wide decision" for Oscar. It was that. At the time Whitaker was, what, 33? Oscar was what? 24? No advantage to Oscar there. Sorry. 2. It doesn't go without saying either that his draw with JCC was some kind of disgraceful robbery. He didn't show "ring generalship," he showed evasive boxing at its worst, but only he coupled that with effective punching. If he didn't move backwards at full speed the whole time it would be a different story. Also, he took some punishment there. All in all it's not easy to judge that. 3. It's only since Mayweather has dissed the other great fighters of the 90's that Whitaker has become spoken of as if he were Ray Robinson. He wasn't. He's roughly in the same rank as De La Hoya and Trinidad, maybe a notch below them Sweat pea is an all time great fighter. I think he is a notch higher than Oscar and Trinidad. He was never totally dominated by neither of them but when he fought them, he was past his prime and on crack. If he was still in his prime, i think he would have beaten both of them. and sweat pea is the only person in history to be number 1 pound for pound for 10 years or more. :boxing:

I don't think many people think he was "robbed" against ODLH except they were using it to support the fact that ODLH did have trouble with a fading Sweet Pea and eventually that turned into peoplpe saying that he "clearly beat De La Hoya" kinda like how people arre starting to say that Tito vs De La Hoya was not that bad of a robbery. Someone understood me; and I've watched this slowly happen, just wanted to say it. It's just people picking up various spins, accepting them as facts then adding a new spin

he beat him on the outside.....im just taklikng insode game here.... i agree somewhat but he has been facing bigger oppenents and moving up quickly. I think now that he has adjusted somewhat to the weight we will see that inside fighting skill against Hatton.

I had Whitaker losing only to Tito Trinidad for his entire career (before retiring and coming back only to lose). I just don't see Whitaker losing that fight to Oscar. At worst, it's a draw. As usual, Lampley was calling "punches" for Oscar that were all misses. Fuckin' cheerleader he was. I thought sweat pea won he was throwing but not landing very often.

He still doesn't have a WW body. And likely never will. But this is where the money is. Whatcha gonna do? What impresses me is that he FINDS A WAY to beat the big boys. Pretty, ugly, or otherwise. that is true, however i will seriously question his status if he doesnt beat hatton easy or at least comfortably...

other than the fact that he beat him in the rematch? come on thats unreasonable he beat him on the outside.....im just taklikng insode game here....

thats the biggest test in inside fighting he has had, nothing that he has done since has led me to believe he's better than before.... JLC used upper body movement to neutralize PBF inside.... other than the fact that he beat him in the rematch? come on thats unreasonable

I don't think you can say "still", and then refer to a fight from five years ago. The thing to remember about the first Castillo fight is this: PBF was a 25 yr old with 20-something fights moving up in weight to fight a very good (and big) champion. He struggled. No excuses. But I think it was a learning experience for him. As it should have been. Many guys would have taken the win and stayed away from JLC. PBF did the honourable thing and rematched JLC immediately to prove who the better man was. Gotta respect that. People who say that fight was some type of "blueprint" aren't taking the whole picture into consideration. thats the biggest test in inside fighting he has had, nothing that he has done since has led me to believe he's better than before.... JLC used upper body movement to neutralize PBF inside.... honestly PBF was great at the lighter weights but now i dont see anything impressive in him....he was fortunate to run into a beatable 147 division.... 140 down he was amazing though.....

You are referring to the very recent Mayweather that has fought more conservatively because he is fighting bigger men. Go back and look at old tapes. He stopped his debut on a body shot. Stopped Bruseles to the body. hurt gatti badly to the body. put in bodywork on zab with the right hook. Stopped Sharmba to the body. He turned southpaw and nailed Sharmba with a right cross. Turned southpaw several times (remember the convo w/ lampley?) during the Bruseles fight. Y'all musta forgot. He actually turned southpaw and ripped Sharmba with a straight left. To be honest, that is the most impressed I have been by Mayweather at any point in his career.

You are referring to the very recent Mayweather that has fought more conservatively because he is fighting bigger men. Go back and look at old tapes. He stopped his debut on a body shot. Stopped Bruseles to the body. hurt gatti badly to the body. put in bodywork on zab with the right hook. Stopped Sharmba to the body. He turned southpaw and nailed Sharmba with a right cross. Turned southpaw several times (remember the convo w/ lampley?) during the Bruseles fight. Y'all musta forgot. yeah i forgot too add hes a very good body puncher....my bad.. but his game is still limited....specially inside, proven by castillo... in the second fiht though, PBF did show unprecedented good use of the 1-2

The first two bolded I agree with. Most well-rounded of all time? Nah he doesn't have nearly enough power for that. There are guys who are good defensively and can box, and punch. Those deserve the title 'well-rounded' I dunno, he had some pretty damn good knockdowns and could hurt very tough fighters. His style really wasnt one where he commited to his punches though, unless you count later in his career against Hurtado. He never put full steam on his punches, kind of how Winky fights... But mostly I meant well rounded skill wise...and I really would say he was the best of all time in that respect. He really could do it all, fight any way, it seems. ________ Buy Vaporizers