A incredible achevement

I don't think Mercer was overrated. He was a gold medal winner at the olympics, was the first man to beat Tommy Morrison and Hung very well with both Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis. He said the Morrison win went to his head. I still think Holmes' lay-off was the big factor in his Tyson defeat. It's the best name on Tyson's resume, but it's still tarnished.

It might have been the lay-off rather than Holmes' age that was the biggest factor.

Holmes was old and flat by the time that Spinks beat him. Even further down the hill when Tyson beat him. Not incredible but a wins a win................Rockin':boxing: yeah right, thats why holmes beat up mercer and holyfield five years later. learn about boxing before you talk yeah yeah snarfy snarf

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0009UC7NE.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg How could I forget Griffith? I must check that book out. I know there was a lot of hate involved between Emile and Paret so it would be interesting to see how that tragedy effected Griffith's boxing.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0009UC7NE.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

I know Eubank said after damaging Watson, "I'll never punch my hardest again" - or somthing along those lines. Damn, that is harsh.

I am very limited on my Eubank history so I will have to catch up on his career and events... I know Eubank said after damaging Watson, "I'll never punch my hardest again" - or somthing along those lines.

They say the same about Max Baer and also Eubank when he gave Watson brain damage. Baer was actually a happy go lucky type of guy they say, so I could see how it really messed him up. I am very limited on my Eubank history so I will have to catch up on his career and events... Boxing can be a brutal sport, both mentaly and physically. I could only imagine what it must be like to damage a person's life and feel responsible, even if it is the work you are in. I wonder if it is more painful knowing the person is still alive and going through incredible trouble rather than dead.

Yes, that is true too...but, if we consider our other discussion, with people dying, Tyson had a shit childhood, losing his father, his Mother dying, Cus dying, and then Jimmy Jacobs...later he would lose his sister I heard, but I think that was after his loss to Doulgas. Tyson mentally retired as well...his boxing career was about pleasing his mentor(s), to achieve what they set out for him to do, and once that was over, he was over. Kind of like how Douglas promised his mother he would beat Tyson for her, she dies, he wins, he retires mentally. Well I can't disagree with that as it's all true. I do think a fighter coming from a hard background and childhood does produce the "tougher" fighter. Lamotta, Liston, Foreman, Dempsey etc. I think they all saw Boxing as there way out of the hard life but Tyson saw Cus and Rooney as his way out. When he lost them he lost his motivation, simple as that. Dempsey fought to win for himself, Tyson fought for cus.

Again it just shows how fragile Tyson was upstairs and how a simple flip of the switch can change him from a great fighter to one who losers to Buster Douglas. Thats one area where Marciano shines over Tyson. Rocky trained 100% for every fight and always gave his all in ever fight. If only Tyson could say the same. Yes, that is true too...but, if we consider our other discussion, with people dying, Tyson had a shit childhood, losing his father, his Mother dying, Cus dying, and then Jimmy Jacobs...later he would lose his sister I heard, but I think that was after his loss to Doulgas. Tyson mentally retired as well...his boxing career was about pleasing his mentor(s), to achieve what they set out for him to do, and once that was over, he was over. Kind of like how Douglas promised his mother he would beat Tyson for her, she dies, he wins, he retires mentally.

A bit off topic, they say the same with Ray Robinson when he killed a man in the ring, he wasn't quite the same ever again. They say the same about Max Baer and also Eubank when he gave Watson brain damage.

Agreed...a fighter needs that hunger/passion/desire to be at his best. Louis and Holmes had already retired and there has to be some effect mentally, and maybe even physically since when you tell yourself "that's it", you body reacts to the mind. A bit off topic, they say the same with Ray Robinson when he killed a man in the ring, he wasn't quite the same ever again.

For Tyson's victory over Spinks, Tyson once said that he didn't consider it a great accomplishment of his since he knew he was going to kill Spinks...Spinks was a former LH, while himself (Tyson) was a natural Heavyweight. According to Spink's manager/promoter (Butch Lewis), that night Tyson fought Spinks, he went into Tyson's room to stir some trouble in order to get Mike out of his game, but Mike was in the zone and looked like he was going to kill. Butch Lewis said that on that night, nobody could of beaten Tyson. Of course that is just his opinion, but it does say something about Mike's state of mind for his last fight with Kevin Rooney, and finishing the job at Heavyweight. Again it just shows how fragile Tyson was upstairs and how a simple flip of the switch can change him from a great fighter to one who losers to Buster Douglas. Thats one area where Marciano shines over Tyson. Rocky trained 100% for every fight and always gave his all in ever fight. If only Tyson could say the same.

For Charles, some say he was never the same after he killed that fighter (whose name escapes me at the moment). His "Prime" was no longer, even though he was still of good quality. I myself, am not exactly sure because I don't know if I have actually ever seen footage of Charles in his "Prime", or at least what Bert Sugar considers his prime. I have seen his other known fights, but would be interested to see his others when he was younger I can't really comment on that since I struggle to find much decent footage of the peak Charles to compare with the one Marciano beat. Although it was clear that Charles was not the same after the wars with both Walcott and Marciano. Although Moore was still a decent fighter after losing to Marciano and continued to reign as LHW champ for some years. I think he was eventually stripped of that title since he wasn't active in defending it. Spinks retired after his loss to Tyson so we don't really know if he could still be a top fighter. And Joe Louis was still beating top fighters and yet failed to win the title, just like Holmes. Louis was fighting just for money and Holmes came out of retirement to fight Tyson just for the cash. Right, I've run out of great fighters Marciano has fought now..

For Tyson's victory over Spinks, Tyson once said that he didn't consider it a great accomplishment of his since he knew he was going to kill Spinks...Spinks was a former LH, while himself (Tyson) was a natural Heavyweight. According to Spink's manager/promoter (Butch Lewis), that night Tyson fought Spinks, he went into Tyson's room to stir some trouble in order to get Mike out of his game, but Mike was in the zone and looked like he was going to kill. Butch Lewis said that on that night, nobody could of beaten Tyson. Of course that is just his opinion, but it does say something about Mike's state of mind for his last fight with Kevin Rooney, and finishing the job at Heavyweight.

Some of the sting from the Archie Moore victory has to do with his age, wear and tear from previous fights (in which he lost several times and was knocked out prior), and if you count that Floyd Patterson won by Knockout quicker than Marciano did a year later. With Walcott, Marciano was struggling in their first meeting...Walcott was also taking some great shots and although it seemed to hurt him on a few occassions, he was still standing until that one big fatal punch towards the end of the fight where Marciano threw his punch, and Walcott was starting his, and BAM! Walcott went to sleep. Of course the second fight was over very quickly. For Charles, some say he was never the same after he killed that fighter (whose name escapes me at the moment). His "Prime" was no longer, even though he was still of good quality. I myself, am not exactly sure because I don't know if I have actually ever seen footage of Charles in his "Prime", or at least what Bert Sugar considers his prime. I have seen his other known fights, but would be interested to see his others when he was younger.

why are you laughing, that shit is definately the concensous cos thats the exact reason Tyson junior takes pride in Tysons victory over spinks. Although many people consider the likes of Moore and Charles to be the greatest at that weight and still they use that against Marciano. Despite the fact they out weighed rocky at the time.

ROFL..!!.. why are you laughing, that shit is definately the concensous

So where do you place Michael Spinks at LH for all time greats? Seriously, that is the first time I have ever seen somebody use ROFL when talking about Spinks at LH. You should either consider watching his fights at that weight, get your eyes checked, or give up on watching boxing. I have him at number 5.....

So where do you place Michael Spinks at LH for all time greats? Seriously, that is the first time I have ever seen somebody use ROFL when talking about Spinks at LH. You should either consider watching his fights at that weight, get your eyes checked, or give up on watching boxing.